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Had a look at the new Cadian Pack thing. Some nice warlord traits, some bad ones, some reused ones.

Tac obs again seem like some are just recycled from the normal objectives but a couple are nice and easy to get. Anyone else got opinions on them yet.

 HANZERtank wrote:
Had a look at the new Cadian Pack thing. Some nice warlord traits, some bad ones, some reused ones.

Anything you'd care to share or link to?

Right now, the only page SHOWING the Warlord traits is in German.

I've got the Glossary for Mont'ka pulled up though and am cross-referencing them with translations.

Warlord Traits
Master Orator: Your Warlord has the Zealot special rule.



Dead-Eye Shot: Add 2 to your Warlord's Ballistic Skill, and 1 to the Ballistic Skill of models in his unit.



Artillery Veteran: Once per game, your Warlord can make an Artillery Bombardment as though he were a Master of Ordnance.



Unflappable Stoicism: Friendly units that are part of a Cadian Detachment do not take Morale tests for suffering 25% or more casualties while they are within 12" of your Warlord.



Above the Thundering Guns: Your Warlord has the Voice of Command special rule. If your Warlord already has the Voice of Command special rule, he can issue one additional order each turn.



Staunch Traditionalist: Friendly characters that are part of Cadian Detachments must issue and accept challenges wherever possible. If there is more than one friendly model with a rule that has this effect in a challenge, you may select which model issues or accepts the challenge. When fighting in challenges, friendly Characters that are part of Cadian Detachments can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

I was about to say that those seemed tolerable... and then I got to the last one.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Staunch Traditionalist: Friendly characters that are part of Cadian Detachments must issue and accept challenges wherever possible. If there is more than one friendly model with a rule that has this effect in a challenge, you may select which model issues or accepts the challenge. When fighting in challenges, friendly Characters that are part of Cadian Detachments can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

Ouch. Are you absolutely sure this isn't mistranslated?

 vipoid wrote:
I was about to say that those seemed tolerable... and then I got to the last one.

The last one is actually kind of entertaining, to me, because of some of the Relics(Celeritas)

Celeritas 10 points
S User AP -- Melee, Deadly Riposte, Master-Crafted.
Deadly Riposte: When fighting in a challenge, a model wielding Celeritas has an Invulnerable Save of 4+. For each successful save made by the model during a challenge, it can immediately make an attack with Celeritas that hits automatically and has the Rending special rule, even if the model is slain as the result of failing other saves at the same time.

The Iron Left 25 points
S +2 AP 3 Melee

Volkov's Cane 10 points
S User AP 4 Melee, Concussive.
Company Commander only. When a model carrying Volkov's Cane issues an Order to a unit within 6", the Leadership test will only fail on a roll of a double 6.

Standard of the Lost 113th 30 points
One Veteran in the army that can carry a Regimental Standard can instead carry the Standard of the Lost 113th. This follows the same rules as a Regimental Standard. At the start of your Movement Phase, you can declare that the bearer will plant the standard and fight to the last. The bearer's unit cannot Move, Run, or Charge for the rest of the game, but it and any friendly Cadian units within 18" are Fearless.

Kabe's Herald 20 points
A Tank Commander in your army may be equipped with Kabe's Herald. When a model equipped with Kabe's Herald uses its Tank Orders special rule, you can pick any other Leman Russ squadrons within 12"; each of these squadrons is also affected by the Tank Order, as though it was part of the Tank Commander's unit. If the Tank Commander chose the "Gunners, Kill on Sight" order, any other squadrons that are affected gain the Split Fire special rule for the duration of the phase.

Wrath of Cadia 5 points
12" S3 AP -- Pistol, Punitive
Punitive: A weapon with this special rule always wounds on a roll of 4+. In addition, when making armour saves against attacks made by a weapon with this special rule, a roll of 3 or less will always fail, even if the target's Save characteristic is 3+ or better.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chalkobob wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Staunch Traditionalist: Friendly characters that are part of Cadian Detachments must issue and accept challenges wherever possible. If there is more than one friendly model with a rule that has this effect in a challenge, you may select which model issues or accepts the challenge. When fighting in challenges, friendly Characters that are part of Cadian Detachments can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

Ouch. Are you absolutely sure this isn't mistranslated?

I didn't translate the body of the text. I translated the name of the trait, then consulted the Glossary.

Interesting new weapon rules, I like them

Wrath of Cadia is just BEGGING to be put onto a Company Commander, placed into a Chimera and have him rolling around popping shots.

I'm half tempted to pick up that Campaign book now, I just don't know if it's worth it, the relics are cool, and the fluff sounds nice. But many of the formations sound disappointing (and I don't have the models for most of them).

My thoughts in red:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Celeritas 10 points
S User AP -- Melee, Deadly Riposte, Master-Crafted.
Deadly Riposte: When fighting in a challenge, a model wielding Celeritas has an Invulnerable Save of 4+. For each successful save made by the model during a challenge, it can immediately make an attack with Celeritas that hits automatically and has the Rending special rule, even if the model is slain as the result of failing other saves at the same time.
Well, at least it's cheap. Would have been nice if it gave some sort of bonus S or AP though.

The Iron Left 25 points
S +2 AP 3 Melee
...
Next

Volkov's Cane 10 points
S User AP 4 Melee, Concussive.
Company Commander only. When a model carrying Volkov's Cane issues an Order to a unit within 6", the Leadership test will only fail on a roll of a double 6.
Oh goody, another 10pt S3 melee weapon. The order thing seems a bit redundant, given that the formation already makes orders more likely to succeed. Also, isn't one of the main formation bonuses being able to issue orders within 24"? So, why on Terra would I want an item that only works when I'm at a quarter of that distance?

Standard of the Lost 113th 30 points
One Veteran in the army that can carry a Regimental Standard can instead carry the Standard of the Lost 113th. This follows the same rules as a Regimental Standard. At the start of your Movement Phase, you can declare that the bearer will plant the standard and fight to the last. The bearer's unit cannot Move, Run, or Charge for the rest of the game, but it and any friendly Cadian units within 18" are Fearless.
No comment.

Kabe's Herald 20 points
A Tank Commander in your army may be equipped with Kabe's Herald. When a model equipped with Kabe's Herald uses its Tank Orders special rule, you can pick any other Leman Russ squadrons within 12"; each of these squadrons is also affected by the Tank Order, as though it was part of the Tank Commander's unit. If the Tank Commander chose the "Gunners, Kill on Sight" order, any other squadrons that are affected gain the Split Fire special rule for the duration of the phase.
Seems alright if you use a lot of squadrons.

Wrath of Cadia 5 points
12" S3 AP -- Pistol, Punitive
Punitive: A weapon with this special rule always wounds on a roll of 4+. In addition, when making armour saves against attacks made by a weapon with this special rule, a roll of 3 or less will always fail, even if the target's Save characteristic is 3+ or better.
Amusing.

Did these items even need to be artefacts? I think their rules are already more that sufficient to dissuade people from using multiples of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:


I didn't translate the body of the text. I translated the name of the trait, then consulted the Glossary.[/quote

Which Glossary?

 vipoid wrote:
My thoughts in red:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Celeritas 10 points
S User AP -- Melee, Deadly Riposte, Master-Crafted.
Deadly Riposte: When fighting in a challenge, a model wielding Celeritas has an Invulnerable Save of 4+. For each successful save made by the model during a challenge, it can immediately make an attack with Celeritas that hits automatically and has the Rending special rule, even if the model is slain as the result of failing other saves at the same time.
Well, at least it's cheap. Would have been nice if it gave some sort of bonus S or AP though.

Why? It hits automatically and has Rending--even if the model dies. Throw that onto the cheapest character that has access to it and if you get Warlord Trait #6, they HAVE to Challenge.

The Iron Left 25 points
S +2 AP 3 Melee
...
Next

This one is definitely weird. The fluff basically suggests that it's a bionic arm.

Volkov's Cane 10 points
S User AP 4 Melee, Concussive.
Company Commander only. When a model carrying Volkov's Cane issues an Order to a unit within 6", the Leadership test will only fail on a roll of a double 6.
Oh goody, another 10pt S3 melee weapon. The order thing seems a bit redundant, given that the formation already makes orders more likely to succeed. Also, isn't one of the main formation bonuses being able to issue orders within 24"? So, why on Terra would I want an item that only works when I'm at a quarter of that distance?

The Company Commander who is taken as part of a Battle Group Command formation gets to do the 24". It's a rule called "High Command", and it also allows 3 Orders per turn. Every other Company Command Squad(which basically every Formation that isn't Tanks requires them) has the standard range and Order numbers.

Standard of the Lost 113th 30 points
One Veteran in the army that can carry a Regimental Standard can instead carry the Standard of the Lost 113th. This follows the same rules as a Regimental Standard. At the start of your Movement Phase, you can declare that the bearer will plant the standard and fight to the last. The bearer's unit cannot Move, Run, or Charge for the rest of the game, but it and any friendly Cadian units within 18" are Fearless.
No comment.

Company Command Squad in an Emperor's Blade Assault Company, take some objectives and then plant the standard. Your Veterans are now Objective Secured with Fearless.

Kabe's Herald 20 points
A Tank Commander in your army may be equipped with Kabe's Herald. When a model equipped with Kabe's Herald uses its Tank Orders special rule, you can pick any other Leman Russ squadrons within 12"; each of these squadrons is also affected by the Tank Order, as though it was part of the Tank Commander's unit. If the Tank Commander chose the "Gunners, Kill on Sight" order, any other squadrons that are affected gain the Split Fire special rule for the duration of the phase.
Seems alright if you use a lot of squadrons.

An Emperor's Fist Armoured Company uses 3 Squadrons. Even doing two tanks per squad, you're looking at effectively 4 Tank Squadrons(Tank Commander and his mandatory bodyguard tank, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons) that can potentially Split Fire.

Wrath of Cadia 5 points
12" S3 AP -- Pistol, Punitive
Punitive: A weapon with this special rule always wounds on a roll of 4+. In addition, when making armour saves against attacks made by a weapon with this special rule, a roll of 3 or less will always fail, even if the target's Save characteristic is 3+ or better.
Amusing.

Did these items even need to be artefacts? I think their rules are already more that sufficient to dissuade people from using multiples of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why? It hits automatically and has Rending--even if the model dies.

Yeah, but not on the model's actual attacks. And only in a challenge. And only if it succeeds on a 4+ save. With Rending that's a 1/12 chance of doing anything meaningful for each wound on your character.

I'm still not seeing the appeal.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Throw that onto the cheapest character that has access to it and if you get Warlord Trait #6, they HAVE to Challenge.

But why would I want to? This is an artefact that requires your commander to get murdered, and then hopes that a couple of S3 Rending attacks actually does something back.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Company Commander who is taken as part of a Battle Group Command formation gets to do the 24". It's a rule called "High Command", and it also allows 3 Orders per turn. Every other Company Command Squad(which basically every Formation that isn't Tanks requires them) has the standard range and Order numbers.

True. It's not awful for 10pts.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Company Command Squad in an Emperor's Blade Assault Company, take some objectives and then plant the standard. Your Veterans are now Objective Secured with Fearless.

They're also T3 with, at best, 4+ saves. Fearless only matters when you have models left.

Moreover, their Fearless is dependant on your ability to protect another T3 unit which will have already been a priority target from the beginning of the game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

An Emperor's Fist Armoured Company uses 3 Squadrons. Even doing two tanks per squad, you're looking at effectively 4 Tank Squadrons(Tank Commander and his mandatory bodyguard tank, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons) that can potentially Split Fire.

It does require you to concentrate your forces though.

Anyone translated the tactical objectives yet?

 vipoid wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why? It hits automatically and has Rending--even if the model dies.

Yeah, but not on the model's actual attacks. And only in a challenge. And only if it succeeds on a 4+ save. With Rending that's a 1/12 chance of doing anything meaningful for each wound on your character.

I'm still not seeing the appeal.

That's in addition to the model's actual attacks. Yes, it is "only in a challenge" and if it succeeds on a 4+ save, but really? For 10 points, that thing is a bloody steal.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Throw that onto the cheapest character that has access to it and if you get Warlord Trait #6, they HAVE to Challenge.

But why would I want to? This is an artefact that requires your commander to get murdered, and then hopes that a couple of S3 Rending attacks actually does something back.

Well, we need to see who exactly in the Cadian list has access to Relics. A Platoon Commander or a Commissar or a Priest with that?
Oh hell yes. That's worth it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Company Command Squad in an Emperor's Blade Assault Company, take some objectives and then plant the standard. Your Veterans are now Objective Secured with Fearless.

They're also T3 with, at best, 4+ saves. Fearless only matters when you have models left.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why? It hits automatically and has Rending--even if the model dies.

Yeah, but not on the model's actual attacks. And only in a challenge. And only if it succeeds on a 4+ save. With Rending that's a 1/12 chance of doing anything meaningful for each wound on your character.

I'm still not seeing the appeal.

That's in addition to the model's actual attacks. Yes, it is "only in a challenge" and if it succeeds on a 4+ save, but really? For 10 points, that thing is a bloody steal.

An I 3 model whom will probably die before he can attack? "Why yes I will pay 10 valuable points for the slight chance of actually hurting my opponent I a challenge before he stomps me in to the ground". Remind me again what my Guard are actually doing in combat in the first place?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Throw that onto the cheapest character that has access to it and if you get Warlord Trait #6, they HAVE to Challenge.

But why would I want to? This is an artefact that requires your commander to get murdered, and then hopes that a couple of S3 Rending attacks actually does something back.

Well, we need to see who exactly in the Cadian list has access to Relics. A Platoon Commander or a Commissar or a Priest with that?
Oh hell yes. That's worth it.

Yet again, what the hell are my models doing in CC?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Company Command Squad in an Emperor's Blade Assault Company, take some objectives and then plant the standard. Your Veterans are now Objective Secured with Fearless.

They're also T3 with, at best, 4+ saves. Fearless only matters when you have models left.

T3 with 4+ armor saves and the ability to take Camo Cloaks for a higher Cover save. Additionally, they come with Chimeras or Taurox as standard, and they're backed up by a squadron of Hellhounds.

That "Formation" is a Core choice. You can take that Core choice, take a Company Command Squad as your Command option and take an Emperor's Shield Infantry Platoon or whatever as Auxiliary.

Look at the pictures of the leaks. It's not doom and gloom like you're espousing.

You know a character can challenge even without the warlord trait stating they have to, right?

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
You know a character can challenge even without the warlord trait stating they have to, right?

Yup.

But you know what they get to do with that Warlord trait? Reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

The Deadeye trait is VERY amusing for Ogryns.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
You know a character can challenge even without the warlord trait stating they have to, right?

Yup.

But you know what they get to do with that Warlord trait? Reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

Given that most things that make it into combat have Initiative 4 or higher as well as many AP 5 or better Strength 4+ attacks your humble Imperial Guard character does not tend to last long enough to take advantage of those rerolls.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
You know a character can challenge even without the warlord trait stating they have to, right?

Yup.

But you know what they get to do with that Warlord trait? Reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls.

Given that most things that make it into combat have Initiative 4 or higher as well as many AP 5 or better Strength 4+ attacks your humble Imperial Guard character does not tend to last long enough to take advantage of those rerolls.

You don't have to like it. I do. I'll enjoy it.

I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

 War Kitten wrote:
I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

Not just the Company Commander.

ANY model with the "Character" type. Ogryn/Bullgryn "sergeants", Infantry Squad Sergeants, Commissars, etc.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

Not just the Company Commander.

ANY model with the "Character" type. Ogryn/Bullgryn "sergeants", Infantry Squad Sergeants, Commissars, etc.

Damn, I forgot that a Bone'ead is a Character. Geez, that's gonna be fun.

What about a Priest with Smash hymn? That's gonna be a lot of fun.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

Not just the Company Commander.

ANY model with the "Character" type. Ogryn/Bullgryn "sergeants", Infantry Squad Sergeants, Commissars, etc.

You're right, I forgot about that. Yeah, if I can get the book fun times will be had.

The Wise Dane wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

Not just the Company Commander.

ANY model with the "Character" type. Ogryn/Bullgryn "sergeants", Infantry Squad Sergeants, Commissars, etc.

Damn, I forgot that a Bone'ead is a Character. Geez, that's gonna be fun.

What about a Priest with Smash hymn? That's gonna be a lot of fun.

War Kitten wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I don't know, it would be kind of funny to see the look on my opponent's face when that humble company commander is re-rolling to hit and wound in CC.

Not just the Company Commander.

ANY model with the "Character" type. Ogryn/Bullgryn "sergeants", Infantry Squad Sergeants, Commissars, etc.

You're right, I forgot about that. Yeah, if I can get the book fun times will be had.

Heh.

That Warlord trait plus the Ogryn Auxilla Formation(2 units of Ogryn, 2 units of Bullgryn, and a Commissar) would be kind of interesting.
Groundshaking Charge: If a unit of Ogryns or Bullgryns charges an enemy unit that has already been charged by a unit of Ogryns or Bullgryns from this Formation in the same Assault phase, their Hammer of Wrath hits are resolved at Strength 7.

Unquestioning Loyalty: Units of Ogryns and Bullgryns from this Formation that are within 12" of the Commissar from this Formation have the Fearless special rule.

Now I just need to pick up some Ogryns/Bullgryns. I already have a commissar. Any other funny combos that we can make with the new stuff?

I see we have no "CREEEEEEEEEEED" warlord traits... Just when I wanted to infiltrate my Warlord Titan

 War Kitten wrote:
Now I just need to pick up some Ogryns/Bullgryns. I already have a commissar. Any other funny combos that we can make with the new stuff?

I think that most of them have already been discussed, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I see we have no "CREEEEEEEEEEED" warlord traits... Just when I wanted to infiltrate my Warlord Titan

If you're thinking about "Master of Ambush"(Strategic Traits), it specifies "non-vehicle units".
If you're thinking about "Grand Strategist"(AM Warlord traits), it specifies "D3 units in your primary detachment."

Not gonna lie, I'm glad you brought this up though. It made me consult the basic Warlord traits.

Warlord with "Intimidating Presence" from "Command Traits". Enemy units within 12" of your Warlord must use their lowest Leadership value, not the highest.
Super-Heavy Support Element: If an enemy unit is hit by 3 or more Primary weapons from this Formation, they must take a Morale check on 4D6 unless they have Gone to Ground.
OR
Psykana Division and Primaris Psyker/Wyrdvane Psykers going apepoo casting LD shenanigans.


Hehehehe.

Oh goody, another 10pt S3 melee weapon. The order thing seems a bit redundant, given that the formation already makes orders more likely to succeed. Also, isn't one of the main formation bonuses being able to issue orders within 24"? So, why on Terra would I want an item that only works when I'm at a quarter of that distance?


.....maybe because you've stuck it on the commander that comes with the artillery formation where the artillery count as LD8 and can't have vox?


I mean, it costs less than a vox net for four units, and it's practically guaranteed. I'll take that every time I field that formation.