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So I've been playing 40k for awhile now, but I've been thinking about jumping into warmachine. I can't really decide between Menoth or Cygnar. I've read up a little bit about each and it seems Menoth is synergistic and needs the whole army to function as a whole, while Cygnar is primarily ranged focused. Is this correct? Also I have no idea what is decent in gameplay and what isn't. I normally am just a casual player but I also want a fair shot at winning too! Any advice, tips, knowledge etc. you could toss to a new guy would be greatly appreciated.

The factions are so diverse these days that you can really find something in just about any faction to fit your play style. That being said they do have certain arch-types. Menoth is usually pretty jack heavy and the choir and the book are things that you will see often. Cygnar is generally a ranged army but their jacks and some units can really get in there.

The nice thing about WM/H is that the caster you take will change how your army works dramatically.

Also this is not 40k, there are some really bad caster matchups but the factions on a whole are balanced between each other.

As to getting better.... there is no better way then to play. See if a local store is running a journeyman league. Its a great way to ramp up from the battle box up to 35 points. I'd also recommend watching some of the battle reports on YouTube and Twitch. Some of the great ones to watch are Advanced Manuvers (they actually provide commentary from the players as to why they did something). Chain-Attack. Wargamer Girl are all good to start with.

Good luck.

Also, to clarify by "The Book" he means a solo called the Covenant of menoth, often called The Book, I just wanted to make that clear. As far as play style, yes, Caster determines that a lot more than army, but some are better at some things than others, for example, Menoth like Jacks, Trollbloods are a brick wall of a faction, Menoth can also do a heavy infantry focus and Trolls can do a big ranged game if they want to. Every faction has a good deal of diversity to them which is nice.

Also, when you say Menoth has a lot of synergy, all of the factions do, it is how you build lists, taking things which work well together to make powerful combinations I.E Solo A can buff Unit A, both are not bad, but sub optimal, but with Solo+unit, you get a more powerful combination, with the solo granting certain abilities that assist the unit, making them while not awful apart, more valuable together, it's a synergistic combo, and they're everywhere in the game, and in all factions.

And, with Batreps, don't watch Miniwargaming, don't do it. They are just bad

Cygnar is not a ranged faction. They are a combined arms faction that has better shooting than most. Shooting in general in this game is weaker than melee, you'll almost never win the game using it exclusively. Its used to weaken the enemy before you finish the job in melee.

In terms of synergy, compared to 40k this entire game is nothing but synergy. Menoth just has more than most.

Generally, each faction has a wide depth in possible playstyles and each list plays differently. Its very much a game of combinations and figuring out which ones work best for you.

I'll 2nd the warning of Do not watch Miniwargaming. Chain-attack, Advanced Maneuvers, and Wargamergirl are actually competent players.


On Casual vs Competitive: You'll find that these have different definitions than they do in 40k. Casual is an attitude, Competitive is just how you play the game in general. You can be competitive and casual at the same time. Most people bring the same lists to tournaments as they bring to weekly game night, everyone builds the best lists they can, tries their hardest to win, and has a lot of fun doing so.

I didn't mention Miniwargaming because I forgot they even made battle reports. There stuff is not good.

Even worse is they have the balls to make you pay for most of it.

My advice for someone just starting, is don't be overwhelmed by the sheet amount of models and possible lists! Let's say you come up with a list, if you show it to folks, you might get advice like the following (note in advance I'm telling you to ignore this ):

Try this tier list and buy duplicates of X, Y, and Z to do it
Only play the Battle Box contents because that's what you're "supposed" to start with
Only these 2 warcasters in the faction are viable, everything else sucks

Basically, to start what you really need, imo, is a basic demo game to get a feel for the basic rules and how jacks (or beasts) work, and infantry. Then you want to look into what kind of models you might like, and some standard lists for said models or warcaster, and go from there.

I had a ton of fun as a new player just playing beast-heavy trolls with their best beast-heavy caster at the time, epic Doomshaper. But I got waylaid by the above and started buying up all sorts of other things for trolls, and frankly got overwhelmed!

To solve my own dilemma I ended up switching to gatormen Minions, since they have less options so it's easier to sort, anyway . But really, find a warcaster and some units you like, make a good, simple list around them, and stick to that for a while and see how you like it . Avoid buying duplicates of anything at the beginning, in full factions especially, you're usually only going to want one of anything except a few items!

I would however ask first before you buy a warcaster and units you like. While just about everything in this game is viable, not everything is viable together.

Chocolate is awesome. Hamburgers are awesome. Chocolate Hambugers are crap. You can't just mush stuff together in WMH and expect it to work.



If you want to start either Menoth or Cygnar I would pick up the following to start with.

Menoth: Battle Box, Reckoner heavy kit, unit of Choir, and a Vassal of Menoth.

Cygnar: Battle Box, unit of Gunmages, Squire, and a Journeyman Warcaster.

Battle College is a good place to get the basic run down of units and their abilities. Don't take it as gospel, but most of the info is a good starting point.

Yeah, definitely ask / look around for what works best with your chosen caster / unit!

I'm basically just saying, play what you like and find a very good configuration for it, but don't feel pressured to run the absolute "best" configuration all the time, or in reverse just the "starter" one, etc.

Start with a caster you like, find out what units work well with him/her that you like and go from there.

Or give us a playstyle you like and we can give recommendations.

I'm going to recommend starting with a Battle Box and here is why. The BB's are designed to give you a feel for the game and get the basic rules and mechanics down.

This is also the reason I recommend finding a slow grow league in your area. It starts with two weeks of BB, then moves to 15 points then 25. and finally 35. This gives you the room to grow from the BB to the BB+a 4ish point unit, then up from there. It lets you expand your rules knowledge while slowly moving you into playing full sized games (at 50pt).

The only real downside is that you will probably only wind up using 1-2 models out of the BB after you've been playing for a while.

Well, I play Cryx and Cyriss but I battled the other WM factions rather often.
Choose whatever you like, you cannot go wrong.
As said, BattleCollege is the place where you find decent information about your army.

My advice to a new player: PLAY THE GAME.

You are going to get your teeth smashed and curb stomped for about your first 10-20 games, as long as you are playing a competent player that knows how to play the game. Don't get hung up about it; it happens to all the new players. Concentrate on just learning the game and getting the fundamentals down.

W/H is a very subtle game. Learn the game first, then start worrying about winning and losing. I guarantee the first time you win will be unexpected, and bewildering because you won't quite know how you did it.

Being a 40K player will hamper you more than help you in Warmachine/Hordes. Forget everything about 40K. DO NOT apply anything from 40K to Warmachine/Hordes. Oh, how many times I've seen a 40K player try to take objectives thinking that's how you win the game, and they leave their Warcaster unprotected. Or they turtle up, thinking nothing can get to their Warcaster and ignore the scenario.

My best advice: Just play, play, play. Team USA for Worlds plays on average 2-3 games a day, and more when they are training for a Worlds tournament. It's a real treat to play someone like Will Pagani, Jason Flanzer, or Jason Watts. They play on a level that is above and beyond anything us mere mortals can ever hope to achieve, and it's because they play ALL THE TIME. The last time I played Watts, he studied the board for about 30 seconds, looked at me and said "Do you want to keep playing or start over?" It was the top of Turn 2! By Turn 3, I was defeated in a glorious spectacle of model placement, push, and Warcaster Assassination from 18" away. It was brilliant!

When I played against DC, before he became the Rule Developer for Privateer Press (and even the couple times after we played), it was just down right scary how he was able to look at the board and win the game.

My point here is that to get good, you have to play, and not just the same people with the same lists, but all kinds of players at all kinds of skill levels with all kinds of lists. There is no "Take on All Comers" list for your chosen faction. None of the factions have such a list.

TL;DR Just play the game, don't worry about winning and losing. Army selection doesn't matter all that much for noobs. You'll be surprised when you win your first game. Then you can start thinking army selection, strategy, and tactics.