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In this thread I promise not to bombard you people with constant questions, most of which were pointless, I'll keep my replies question free unless I really don't now what I'm doing. Anyway, this is my budget attempt on an ok list, I know that it may not be great, but it may at least be a decent list. Here it is:

Darth Vader: Squad Leader. 31pts
x3 Academy Pilots. 36pts
Soontir Fel: PTL, Stealth Device. 33pts

Darth and Academy shields go together down the clearest path on the field to avoid asteroids for as long as possible, Soontir flanks up the left or right side and tries to attack enemy ships from the side, or even behind them. Have yet to win a game, so maybe this will be an ok shot?

A suggested revision:

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Juke 2
Advanced Targeting Computer 1
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 32

Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push The Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Ship Total: 32

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12


Darth Vader needs the TIE/x1 title - there's literally no downside to taking it. If you intend to try this in a tournament, then borrow it from someone, otherwise just proxy it. The ATC is a great upgrade for him, but also consider Accuracy Corrector and Sensor Jammer (which are free with the TIE/x1 title). Squad Leader is normally an okay choice, but not in this list - all you can really buff are TIE Fighters, and Fel already gets tons of actions. VI or Juke are much better choices.

Soontir Fel needs at least PTL+autothrusters to be effective (otherwise he'll get murdered by turrets). You also want Stealth Device - you can drop it if you're short on points, but it really enhances Fel's effectiveness.

Three TIE fighters is never bad, but make sure you're using them in such a way that supports your aces. In particular, try to block your opponent's ships, to make them a more ripe target for your Ace's shooting.

When I run Vader and Soontir, I usually fill the rest of the list with either a third mini ace (Omega Leader is a nice choice), or a Shuttle with Palpatine (the much-vaunted Palpmobile). Another idea is to have a crackshot micro-swarm:

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Veteran Instincts 1
Advanced Targeting Computer 1
Engine Upgrade 4
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 35

Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push The Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Stealth Device 3
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 35

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Crack Shot 1
Ship Total: 15

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Crack Shot 1
Ship Total: 15

Sorry, that's just a terrible list. Vader is being completely wasted. You would be better off just replacing him with another Academy Pilot and Howlrunner.

Soontir is decent, although you probably want to try to get Autothrusters.

Well I don't have the Raider, and I'm still trying to make a semi competitive list for a small tournament, although I completely agree with the need to give Vader that upgrade, as it is very good, I may also have to rethink my idea if I can't get the Autothrusters in time. I do realise how badly uncompetitive I am, but I'm working on it. So maybe Vader could be replaced with a cheaper alternative, like Carnor Jax or Turr. I could also try to fit Howlrunner. I'll work on it for now and get rid of Vader.
And yeah, I now realise how terrible my list is...

 Decay wrote:
Well I don't have the Raider, and I'm still trying to make a semi competitive list

Then don't use the TIE advanced. It's garbage without the upgrades included in the raider.

I may also have to rethink my idea if I can't get the Autothrusters in time

There is no "may" about it. If you don't have autothrusters and the title card (for stealth + autothrusters) you don't play TIE interceptors.

Ask around if anyone has a Raider who would be willing to lend you a card. You really do need the title if you're going to use Vader, otherwise you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. If you can't track one down, then swapping out Vader for Carnor Jax would work (I like Turr, but Jax is more useful with Soontir).

You do really need autothrusters if you're going to use interceptors. Unfortunately, they're only available in the StarViper expansion, but you could ask around to borrow a couple of copies.

What ships do you have access to?

I have access to: tie fighters, all types. Tie FO expansion. Slave 1. 3 Interceptors, all types. Decimator. And I'm trying to get the Star viper for the Autothrusters.
Basically, I'm quite new to the game, some of the really competitive ships are really difficult to get in my shop/area, and I partially got put into this tournament because they want as many X Wing players from our club as possible there. I know it's a crappy list of ships, but I could buy a few from the store or online beforehand.

Don't stress out about upgrades - firstly, if people are really wanting you there, you should be able to find someone willing to lend things - Autothrusters, Royal Guard titles and TIE/x1 titles all come multiple in a box, so once someone's bought them they tend to have spares.

Darth and Academy shields go together down the clearest path on the field to avoid asteroids for as long as possible, Soontir flanks up the left or right side and tries to attack enemy ships from the side, or even behind them. Have yet to win a game, so maybe this will be an ok shot?

Rather than talking list, Let's talk tactics.
One problem (ish) with X-wing is that one ship doesn't (normally) block fire to another. So those academy pilots don't really 'shield' Vader.

A TIE advanced (with title or not) is a fairly tough little crate, but Vader himself is very expensive and barring getting an extra evade token with his free action, he's not much tougher than a tempest squadron pilot 8 points cheaper than he is.

Going 'up the centre' is best with generic pilots who are cheap, tough, expendable or all three, and get you the most damage capacity and red dice for your points.

Academy TIE fighters - as you suggested are superb at this - in fact I'd say that almost anything trying to 'joust' with an equivalent points value of academy TIE/ln fighters is going to come off worst. All you need to do is have some support to watch their flanks and rear.

Named, high PS pilots, by comparison, are best as 'arc dodger' flanking units (as you'd planned to use Soontir Fel). Fly them loose on a flank where they can boost or barrel roll as required to get or deny shots.



If you want a ship you can equip with all the bells and whistles with the upgrades you've got, I'd suggest Omega Leader.

Omega Leader - Juke, Comms Relay, Stealth Device

He's cheap (compared to Soontir or Vader, anyway), and is amazing in a one-on-one duel against any other small ship.

If you can keep it a one-on-one fight, he's got a decent chance of taking out even a far more expensive ship.

Pair him up with generic TIE fighters - they can go up the centre to keep his victim's wingmen from getting involved. If you've got three TIE fighters, two-to-three generics and Howlrunner makes for a lethal forward-firing block of pain.

Alternatively, you could take him with a decimator with supporting crew, and still might be able to fit in an academy pilot or two.

If you're new to the game, the Decimator might be to your taste - it's tough, not dependent on the vagaries of green dice to survive, and has a 360' turret - so you can concentrate on manoeuvring to avoid rocks and enemy fire rather than having to line up shots yourself.

If getting upgrades is a problem your best option is probably to bring a TIE swarm. Four academy pilots and four obsidian pilots is a classic list with brutal dice efficiency, while six generic TIE fighters and Howlrunner (exact combination of upgrades depends on your preference) is even more efficient math-wise at the expense of forcing you to fly in tight formation.

locarno24 wrote:
One problem (ish) with X-wing is that one ship doesn't (normally) block fire to another. So those academy pilots don't really 'shield' Vader.

To clarify this a bit: the TIE fighters will not block line of sight to Vader, but what they can do is get in the enemy ship's path to block its movements and deny actions, or move in to threaten a range-1 shot that makes your opponent want to kill the academy pilot before it can fire instead of taking a shot at Vader.

I have 5 Tie Fighters, so a mini swarm. I like Omega Leader, so having him with a Howlrunner mini swarm may work for me. My overall opinion of the Decimator is that the lack of even 1 agility in most cases means that my enemy usually directs a ton of fire onto it and will wreck it quite quickly. I haven't yet managed to play it effectively because of the uber aggressive lists I've played it against. Y Wings ionising it until it flys of the map was not fun or easy for me to watch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about this? Any less rubbish?

2x Academy pilots
Howlrunner
Omega Leader: Juke, Comms
Soontir: PTL, Autothrusters

This should be at least a bit better than the last one. I could also replace Soontir with Turr or Carnor for more fun moving, or focus blocking respectively.

I like that last list. I had great fun with Omega Leader. He can hunt them aces rather well, especially if you use your Academy Pilots to force your opponent into either not taking a shot or trying for a shot but where you can see him.

Just got the Starviper so now I definitely have the Autothrusters and can now use my interceptors. Along with the aces and slave 1 I should have most suggestible upgrades for them. So I think that I'll stick with this Soontir/Omega list for the tournament unless anyone has any extreme opinions against it.

You could do this...

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or this. I like this one a lot.

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Stealth Device (3)

"Epsilon Ace" (17)
Comm Relay (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I like that first one much better. I don't think Epsilon Ace is better than 2 Academy Pilots.

Maybe drop the Stealth Device from Omega Leader for a 3pt initiative bid. Fel likes having that, though it's less useful in the PS10-11 meta that has developed lately. Ideally you would use Omega Leader against the enemy ace who out-PS's Fel.

Yeah, I like the first list, but stealth device is not something I would give to Omega Leader. Shame he won't have much offensive power at range 2/3. Speaking of which, I'm struggling to take down large ships with lists like this, even thinking about it drives makes me mad. Every time they shrug it off and kick one of my Tie Fighters out of the game, and I can't do anything about them!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could also replace Omega Leader with Turr with VI and Autothrusters

I do hope the meta shifts away from PS9-10-11 "and everything else is garbage" rather soon. There are some fun builds I want to go back and try.

Because even if I win initiative, at PS9, my friends' triple aces list all move after me. Which means they can arc dodge to their hearts' content. It's smart, but it makes for a very anti-climactic game. You rarely get to roll dice.

I'll use that, but use the 3 spare stealth points to turn the academy pilots into Obsidian ones, gives them a little edge over any tanks/fillers such as Blus Squadrons and Z-95's.

 Decay wrote:
I'll use that, but use the 3 spare stealth points to turn the academy pilots into Obsidian ones, gives them a little edge over any tanks/fillers such as Blus Squadrons and Z-95's.

Pass on that. PS 1 is better than PS 3 in the vast majority of circumstances. Just be aware you're moving first, then get in the way, take your focus/evade action (or barrel roll if you messed up your position) and let the rest of your list wail on that B-wing/Z95 while it does nothing since it has no action and can't shoot the TIE fighter right in front of it.

Yes, there is no need to absolutely fill those 100 pts, and if you can get a nice initiative bid, so much th better.

Ok then, So those 3 Academies go up the middle and block, will Soontir and Omega Leader go together up the side? Or do they both work alone? I'm not sure of my overall tactics.

 Decay wrote:
Ok then, So those 3 Academies go up the middle and block, will Soontir and Omega Leader go together up the side? Or do they both work alone? I'm not sure of my overall tactics.

Soontir flies alone, stay on the edge of combat trying to avoid being in range at all. If someone moves to intercept you, fly in close and dodge out of arc. He doesn't get any bonuses for this, but it's just the best way to keep him alive till late game when Fel can pick your enemies apart.

Omega Leader can fly in formation with Academy TIEs if you know what you're doing, but it's not the best idea and there aren't any bonuses to this either. If it were me, I'd probably start the Academies flying straight out and OL flying parallel to the board edge, then hard turn to fall in behind the TIEs, so he can clean-up whatever comes out the other side of that scrum in the center.

I agree with the advice you are getting, Decay.
Welcome to a fun game... just remember that X-Wing is easy to learn, but there are many, many layers of mastery. Fly Casually, and focus on getting better.