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I couldn't decide if I should put this in Proposed Rules or General Discussion, MODs feel free to move this thread if necessary.

I've been thinking about creating an "Inquisitorial Delta Force" style army of Grey Knights, Adepta Soriritas, and Deathwatch Marines led by an Inquisitor. I then realized that this could make an excellent codex! I know that Grey Knights players may not like the idea of not having their own codex anymore, but I think that this would greatly benefit the SoB armies and Inquisition that have outstanding lore (some of the best in the game, if you ask me), but have been more or less abandoned on the tabletop by GW. Deathwatch would be a good way to round out the force.

HQ choices would be either Inquisitors or the HQs from the various subfactions. Each HQ would have his associated subfaction (the three Ordos Majoris) and a non-named Inquisitor model could choose which Ordo he belongs to. By default, infantry units fall under the force org slots appropriate for the models. For example GK Paladins are Elite, and in this codex, so are GK Terminators. GK Strike Squads are still Troops. However, each unit choice also has an associated Ordo, and certain units (like GK Terminators) may be taken as Troops by an HQ with the same Ordo. I would also like to see a new Inquisition troop choice in the form of an Acolyte Cadre (similar stats to Chaos Cultists) that is highly customizable.

The entire GK and SoB codices would be transferred to the new Codex: Inquisition and updated to 7.5 ed. and several SM units could be taken as Deathwatch (at least Tacs, Assault Marines, and Devs along with Terminators, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Landraiders, and maybe Predators and Whirlwinds). Ordo Hereticus units receive Preferred Enemy (Psyker, Chaos), Ordo Maleus get Preferred Enemy (Demons), Ordo Xenos get Preferred Enemy (Xenos).

I haven't thought much about the unique formations, but I think this would be a good start.

 EnTyme wrote:
I couldn't decide if I should put this in Proposed Rules or General Discussion, MODs feel free to move this thread if necessary.

I've been thinking about creating an "Inquisitorial Delta Force" style army of Grey Knights, Adepta Soriritas, and Deathwatch Marines led by an Inquisitor. I then realized that this could make an excellent codex! I know that Grey Knights players may not like the idea of not having their own codex anymore, but I think that this would greatly benefit the SoB armies and Inquisition that have outstanding lore (some of the best in the game, if you ask me), but have been more or less abandoned on the tabletop by GW. Deathwatch would be a good way to round out the force.

HQ choices would be either Inquisitors or the HQs from the various subfactions. Each HQ would have his associated subfaction (the three Ordos Majoris) and a non-named Inquisitor model could choose which Ordo he belongs to. By default, infantry units fall under the force org slots appropriate for the models. For example GK Paladins are Elite, and in this codex, so are GK Terminators. GK Strike Squads are still Troops. However, each unit choice also has an associated Ordo, and certain units (like GK Terminators) may be taken as Troops by an HQ with the same Ordo. I would also like to see a new Inquisition troop choice in the form of an Acolyte Cadre (similar stats to Chaos Cultists) that is highly customizable.

The entire GK and SoB codices would be transferred to the new Codex: Inquisition and updated to 7.5 ed. and several SM units could be taken as Deathwatch (at least Tacs, Assault Marines, and Devs along with Terminators, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Landraiders, and maybe Predators and Whirlwinds). Ordo Hereticus units receive Preferred Enemy (Psyker, Chaos), Ordo Maleus get Preferred Enemy (Demons), Ordo Xenos get Preferred Enemy (Xenos).

I haven't thought much about the unique formations, but I think this would be a good start.

It would change nothing, other than making it even less likely for SOB to ever see another release. You can do everything you're talking about with allies and the INQ force org chart. Best case scenario you see a stardard GK list with 1 INQ with servo skulls and MAYBE coteaz, and 1 squad of dominions or 2 exorcists for anti-tank.

It would give you the option of making a battleforged list out of these factions without using an Allied Detachment. You could have SoB, Deathwatch, and GKs in the same list with only one HQ slot used. As far as SoB goes, I think this would actually force GW to update them. Do you really think GW wouldn't release new models to sell with the new rules?

Honestly would prefer to see GK knocked down in size and limited to a allied sized army list. same with SoB and Deathwatch.

They really shouldn't be a full force on them selves.

but people will get mad at me for saying that

edit: as well as inquisition which already is.

 EnTyme wrote:
It would give you the option of making a battleforged list out of these factions without using an Allied Detachment.

Why would I be so averse to taking an allied detachment?

 EnTyme wrote:
You could have SoB, Deathwatch, and GKs in the same list with only one HQ slot used.

These forces do not work closely together.

 EnTyme wrote:
As far as SoB goes, I think this would actually force GW to update them. Do you really think GW wouldn't release new models to sell with the new rules?

GW has released several new digital sisters codexes and has pointedly discontinued models that feature in them.

I've always been a fan on a standalone Inq book with Sisters, GK, and DW, plus the usual assortment of more human combatants and servants.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Why would I be so averse to taking an allied detachment?

You may not be, but it would give us some more options.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
These forces do not work closely together.

Normally, you are right, but Inquisitors from different Ordos often are forced to work together, so it makes sense that they might occasionally need to combine their special forces divisions from time to time.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
GW has released several new digital sisters codexes and has pointedly discontinued models that feature in them.

I'm optimistic that GW's survival instinct will kick in some day and they will eventually start listening to the player base. Honestly, I just think that the Adepta Sororitas has some of the best and most underutilized fluff in the game, and I'm trying to think of new ways to get them back on the tabletop.

Sisters aren't an Inquisition army, why would they be in the book?

 EnTyme wrote:
Normally, you are right, but Inquisitors from different Ordos often are forced to work together, so it makes sense that they might occasionally need to combine their special forces divisions from time to time.

You are literally describing an alliance right now.

 EnTyme wrote:
I'm optimistic that GW's survival instinct will kick in some day and they will eventually start listening to the player base. Honestly, I just think that the Adepta Sororitas has some of the best and most underutilized fluff in the game, and I'm trying to think of new ways to get them back on the tabletop.

Reducing them to inquisitorial henchmen would be the rock bottom of their current downhill journey. Even having them discontinued is preferable.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
You are literally describing an alliance right now.

"Alliance" and "Allied Detachment" are two different things.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Reducing them to inquisitorial henchmen would be the rock bottom of their current downhill journey. Even having them discontinued is preferable.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sisters aren't an Inquisition army, why would they be in the book?

The Sisters of Battle are often requisitioned from the Ecclesiarchy to be used as Acolytes. This doesn't make them "henchmen" any more than a Tactical Marine is a henchman of his chapter. The Sisters consider it part of their duty to serve the Inquisition when they are called upon. It gives them ample opportunity to purge heretics. Believe me, I would rather the Adepta Sororitas get a full re-release with a 7.5 edition Codex and a complete line of fine-detailed plastic models including new vehicles and six new HQs. That's the ideal situation, but GW isn't going to do it until we can prove that it's profitable for them to do so. Maybe this could be step one to that end.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sisters aren't an Inquisition army, why would they be in the book?

They're the militant arm of the ordo hereticus, makes sense to include them in an Inq book for a codex representing the fighting forces of the Inquisition. Same way GK and DW makes sense to be included.

The obvious alternative is that all three of those options get a complete, separate book, in addition to a separate Inq book, but all those things could easily fit in a combined book anyways.

I prefer the system we have now where they are all separate books.

As for deathwatch they would need at most one unit entry. As is you can represent them well with sternguard and there is a formation that lets you take nothing but sternguard to ally them in with a xenos Inquisitor. The IOM ally system makes combining them back together redundant.

I would hate it.

I love fielding inquisitors and I really dislike the idea of getting "rolled into" grey knights or sisters. I enjoy my army and want to keep it as my army. If those dread knight guys want some henchmen let them ally them in. I would not want to share any army specific rules with them or worse just become an other HQ and Elite choice. If you want to know how much "fun" getting rolled into an other army is go and talk to a black templar player.

The current Inquisition Detachment is perfect. I can add a single Inquisitor to D-99, Exorcists, Grey Knights, Red Hunters, Sternguard that I count as Deathwatch, Militarum Tempestas or literally anything else I want to. The current allies chart and detachments make it the easiest thing in the world to make a fully fluffy army list. Throwing them in a single book will limit what I can do. I'd be pissed if I HAD to take a squad of henchmen/Knights/Sisters or whatever along with my Inquisitor because of the Detachment requirements of them all combined in a single book. Look at Harlequins and how many hoops you have to jump through to get just a couple guys now...

 Desubot wrote:
Honestly would prefer to see GK knocked down in size and limited to a allied sized army list. same with SoB and Deathwatch.

Forum rules prevent me from expressing my opinion about removing the army I've played since 4th edition from the game.

Per their fluff, GK almost never deploy more than a single squad to any given area. Having half a Company, or more, on the tabletop is absurd.

Except for all the fluff in which they strike in force, of which there is a lot. Realistically, most Space Marines will mostly deploy mainly in very small teams, yet there are multiple space marine books. DA, BA, SW, etc. And it was only recently in the fluff that GKs were limited to codex chapter sizes. Prior to the current book, they were probably the single largest chapter other than maybe Black Templar.

What about combining the inquisition with SOB, the assassins, and deathwatch.... You get the holy holys. The big shots. And the a squad of 10 will wipe a xenos planet.

Any book that prevents me from taking a lone Inquisitor with the option of some henchmen is one I do not want. Same for the ability to take a lone assassin.

I don't want to pay for odd tax units to bring one of my many Inquisitors with my marines.

EnTyme wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
You are literally describing an alliance right now.

"Alliance" and "Allied Detachment" are two different things.

So just bring an Inquisition detachment and your CAD. No need to faff about with an Allied Detachment at all if that's your main gripe.

EnTyme wrote:The Sisters of Battle are often requisitioned from the Ecclesiarchy to be used as Acolytes. This doesn't make them "henchmen" any more than a Tactical Marine is a henchman of his chapter. The Sisters consider it part of their duty to serve the Inquisition when they are called upon. It gives them ample opportunity to purge heretics. Believe me, I would rather the Adepta Sororitas get a full re-release with a 7.5 edition Codex and a complete line of fine-detailed plastic models including new vehicles and six new HQs. That's the ideal situation, but GW isn't going to do it until we can prove that it's profitable for them to do so. Maybe this could be step one to that end.

The Sisterhood are not "duty bound" to assist the Ordos.

They maintain an alliance with the Ordos - Hereticus in particular - because their role as Ecclesiastical Internal Affairs happens to align with them often, Likewise, the Inquisition does not "requisition" sisters. It invites them.

Blacksails wrote:

They're the militant arm of the ordo hereticus, makes sense to include them in an Inq book for a codex representing the fighting forces of the Inquisition. Same way GK and DW makes sense to be included.

Except that the Sisterhood are not the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus.

They are the militant arm of the Adeptus Ministorum.

Loon wrote:
What about combining the inquisition with SOB, the assassins, and deathwatch.... You get the holy holys. The big shots. And the a squad of 10 will wipe a xenos planet.

I would still hate it. I do not want my army to get rolled into an other army nor do I want an other army to be rolled into my army.
Sisters and deathwatch have noting in common with my daemon sword wielding radical inquisitors, and should stay the hell out of my codex.
We should not have the same universal army rules, relics and equipment lists.
If you like this idea ask yourself how you would like it if your army got rolled into one of your battle brothers potentially losing lots of uniqueness in the process.
What I would like are more units for the factions. A way to field excommunicated or radical inquisitors with other allied options or new rules for relictors.

Loon wrote:
What about combining the inquisition with SOB, the assassins, and deathwatch.... You get the holy holys. The big shots. And the a squad of 10 will wipe a xenos planet.

Or we could just roll all the Space Marines into one codex. That makes even more sense!

I think a single inquisition book with GK, Inq, and Sisters would be really good idea. DW should be a different thing, probably better a part of codex space marines instead of anything else.

Lance845 wrote:
I think a single inquisition book with GK, Inq, and Sisters would be really good idea. DW should be a different thing, probably better a part of codex space marines instead of anything else.

Why? Deathwatch really are categorically an Inquisitional unit. Even more than Grey Knights, if any other force belongs in an Inquisition codex, it's the Deathwatch.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I prefer the system we have now where they are all separate books.

As for deathwatch they would need at most one unit entry. As is you can represent them well with sternguard and there is a formation that lets you take nothing but sternguard to ally them in with a xenos Inquisitor. The IOM ally system makes combining them back together redundant.

Have you read the Deathwatch RPGs?

"One unit entry" is far from what they can be, it's just what the old strictly GW fluff has done. Sternguard are an okay representation of them, assuming you stick strictly to the old fluff--and even then you're not getting a great representation since the only thing that is Deathwatch-y about them is SIA.

Deathwatch has Terminators, Dreadnoughts, even Scout Squads of veteran Brothers. Hell the Deathwatch even has what amounts to "Lone Wolves" in the form of Kill-Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Lance845 wrote:
I think a single inquisition book with GK, Inq, and Sisters would be really good idea. DW should be a different thing, probably better a part of codex space marines instead of anything else.

Why? Deathwatch really are categorically an Inquisitional unit. Even more than Grey Knights, if any other force belongs in an Inquisition codex, it's the Deathwatch.

The Deathwatch and Grey Knights are Chambers Militant for the Inquisition, not falling directly under the command of an Inquisitor unless they choose to do so.

The trouble with lumping all three of the Ordos into one book is that each has a unique army with very little in common with each other. The Grey Knights, though they don't have a huge model range, have a full codex worth of units, and dropping any would alienate GK players.

Deathwatch seems like it could be covered by a Chapter Tactic in Codex: Space Marines. I see very little point in having another book which basically duplicates Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Dark Angels, and Codex: Blood Angels.

Sisters of Battle have a fairly unique force which is a little light on the number of available units, but would be a fine dex with proper points-to-power ratio and a few key additions - the Repressor and a flyer of their own - say the Avenger Strike Fighter, which is a sweet looking plane (bought one for a Sisters-playing friend). GW could even release a combo Immolator-Repressor kit. Plastics would be good, but I imagine most Sisters players would be content if GW maintained the current range and brought the army list up to 7.5 standards, with a Decurion and a few formations.

I actually kind of wonder of GW isn't neglecting Sisters on purpose so they can make a big splash with a re-release, the way they did with Dark Eldar. I'm not saying they neglected DE on purpose for the effect of the splashy re-release, but when they did it they got a pretty good response, so maybe they're trying to duplicate their good luck. I don't have any special inside information suggesting this one way or another, it's just a hypothesis.

Sisters players would stop complaining. Maybe...

I hope.

I pray every day.

When GW can charge more for less (see Militarum Tempestus and the AdMech twins), they will do so. Also, just by virtue of including the Sisters into your combined codex scheme, you have doomed this thread to damnation. May the Emperor have mercy on your soul.

Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
The trouble with lumping all three of the Ordos into one book is that each has a unique army with very little in common with each other. The Grey Knights, though they don't have a huge model range, have a full codex worth of units, and dropping any would alienate GK players.

Deathwatch seems like it could be covered by a Chapter Tactic in Codex: Space Marines. I see very little point in having another book which basically duplicates Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Dark Angels, and Codex: Blood Angels.

Seriously people. Read the Deathwatch RPG material. There's a TON of stuff that can be done with Deathwatch that would be giving them as many unit options as the Grey Knights, let alone surpassing that of the Harlequins.

Sisters of Battle have a fairly unique force which is a little light on the number of available units, but would be a fine dex with proper points-to-power ratio and a few key additions - the Repressor and a flyer of their own - say the Avenger Strike Fighter, which is a sweet looking plane (bought one for a Sisters-playing friend). GW could even release a combo Immolator-Repressor kit. Plastics would be good, but I imagine most Sisters players would be content if GW maintained the current range and brought the army list up to 7.5 standards, with a Decurion and a few formations.

Sisters of Battle can have the Avenger Strike Fighter after the Imperial Guard get it, the Thunderbolt, and Vulture Gunships in plastic and should be in their Codex first. They're all Imperial Navy assets, not the crazed Churchies that have them.

I actually kind of wonder of GW isn't neglecting Sisters on purpose so they can make a big splash with a re-release, the way they did with Dark Eldar. I'm not saying they neglected DE on purpose for the effect of the splashy re-release, but when they did it they got a pretty good response, so maybe they're trying to duplicate their good luck. I don't have any special inside information suggesting this one way or another, it's just a hypothesis.

The issue is that Sisters haven't even made it to Finecast yet. They're still sitting on who knows how much metal stock. Until that stock shifts, we likely won't see anything.

 Kanluwen wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I prefer the system we have now where they are all separate books.

As for deathwatch they would need at most one unit entry. As is you can represent them well with sternguard and there is a formation that lets you take nothing but sternguard to ally them in with a xenos Inquisitor. The IOM ally system makes combining them back together redundant.

Have you read the Deathwatch RPGs?

"One unit entry" is far from what they can be, it's just what the old strictly GW fluff has done. Sternguard are an okay representation of them, assuming you stick strictly to the old fluff--and even then you're not getting a great representation since the only thing that is Deathwatch-y about them is SIA.

Deathwatch has Terminators, Dreadnoughts, even Scout Squads of veteran Brothers. Hell the Deathwatch even has what amounts to "Lone Wolves" in the form of Kill-Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Lance845 wrote:
I think a single inquisition book with GK, Inq, and Sisters would be really good idea. DW should be a different thing, probably better a part of codex space marines instead of anything else.

Why? Deathwatch really are categorically an Inquisitional unit. Even more than Grey Knights, if any other force belongs in an Inquisition codex, it's the Deathwatch.

The Deathwatch and Grey Knights are Chambers Militant for the Inquisition, not falling directly under the command of an Inquisitor unless they choose to do so.

I've read them but this game doesn't need more marine units.