Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, everyone. What do you think is a really great model, but with bad rules? For me, I've heard that the Nephilim Jetfighter for the Dark Angels has poor rules, but I got one anyway because I think it is one of the coolest models in the game.

flash gitz

Warp Talons: Probably one of the coolest model in the CSM line and also one of their worst unit.

Nobz: Despite being rather mediocre, especially compared to Mega Nobz, they are still usable.

Stormboyz: A bit in the same kind of situation than the nobz rule wise.

Tempestus Scion: outside of their codex they are rather poor elite unit with very little use (as troop choice with objective secure they are ok).

Tyranid Warriors: really cool models that can only be used effectively (and even then) with a very specific army list.

Incubus: melee specialist that rely on speed without offensive grenades (still ok, but should be better).

Space Marine Terminators

/thread

Probably the Vault from the Necron codex. It looks SUPER dangerous but really isn't.

Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz. They're walkers with lousy armor and short-ranged weapons that cost far too much for what little they do. It sucks because I love the deff dread models. They're probably my favorite in the ork codex.

Eldartank wrote:
Hi, everyone. What do you think is a really great model, but with bad rules? For me, I've heard that the Nephilim Jetfighter for the Dark Angels has poor rules, but I got one anyway because I think it is one of the coolest models in the game.

Most anything in an Imperial Guard Elites or Fast Attack slot for the most part. I own a ****ton of Stormtroopers (from old metals, to Kasrkin, DKoK Grenadiers, and even plastic Scions), but their rules are just awful. Hellhounds are another great example, cool models, but absurdly expensive tanks.

Tyranid Warriors are another good one. I *really* like the Warrior models, but there's just no way to make them work in the game's current state. They're a CC unit that lacks multiple good overlapping saves and any sort of meaninfgul speed that's easily ID'd out by gobs of commonly available weaponry. I didn't used to think the latter was a problem, but as the game has evolved and firepower outputs increased and the resiliency of other units dramatically increased as well, it's really become an issue.

DE flyers and Incubi. Love the models, their rules not so excited about.

The ork walkers that are between dreads and stompas (can't remember their name) Love the model, but I hear their rules aren't so great.

And the ultimate travesty of this list is the Tau Hammerhead. My favorite model in the entire GW catalog and its current rules just make it an after thought of times gone by.

Thirding tyranid warriors. I really like those models.

I got a huge pile of them incredibly cheap in an auction while the 5th edition codex was out. I was hoping they would become usable in 6th. Unfortunately they did not.
If they're good in the next codex, I've got about 30 ready to go.

 Jayden63 wrote:

And the ultimate travesty of this list is the Tau Hammerhead. My favorite model in the entire GW catalog and its current rules just make it an after thought of times gone by.

I don't think the Hammerhead is really all that bad on its own. It gets a jink save, has a gun big enough that kills through the vehicle damage chart are realistic, gets BS4, and can still toss around a pieplate (and without it preventing its secondary weapons like SMS's), for less than almost all naked Russ tanks. As far as *tanks* go in 7th edition, I really don't think it's all that bad.

It's just that everything *else* is so much better... and 7E really just doesn't like tanks

I second the mention of Warp Talons. Awesome models, crap rules. All they would have to add is allowing them to assault from deep strike and they would be amazing. As is, they are at best mediocre.

The OP mentioned the Nephilim Jetfighter. I don't know that it's so terrible, it was far worse in the 6th edition DA codex. Right now, it's probably the best anti-air power the DA have other than allies or Forgeworld.

Other units I could mention with great models and bad rules are Aun'shi, Asmodai, the Land Speeder Vengeance, the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut, Bloodcrushers of Khorne, any flavor of Terminators, Vespids, Electropriests, and probably more I'm not thinking of at the moment.

 sing your life wrote:
Space Marine Terminators
/thread

Ha!

Ogryns.

Blood Angels Codex.

/ using fake slash tag

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

And the ultimate travesty of this list is the Tau Hammerhead. My favorite model in the entire GW catalog and its current rules just make it an after thought of times gone by.

I don't think the Hammerhead is really all that bad on its own. It gets a jink save, has a gun big enough that kills through the vehicle damage chart are realistic, gets BS4, and can still toss around a pieplate (and without it preventing its secondary weapons like SMS's), for less than almost all naked Russ tanks. As far as *tanks* go in 7th edition, I really don't think it's all that bad.

It's just that everything *else* is so much better... and 7E really just doesn't like tanks

just please bring back the vehicle Target Locks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and how about flipping the question? what has great rules but lousey models?

Good looking models with lousy rules?
- SM Dreadnoughts of multiple varieties. (Always liked their look and fluff but being a walker gives it a death sentence in this edition)

Lousy models with good rules?
- GK Dreadnights

 carldooley wrote:

and how about flipping the question? what has great rules but lousey models?

Or how about rubbish rules and rubbish models? Pretty much the entire CSM codex :(

*orkanaut

Well maybe not lousy rules, but badly overcosted for what they do.

(although if they were assault vehicles it would mitigate the cost problem quite a lot, plus be very fluffy)

40k Lightning. The 30k Lightning is great, but the 40k rules are stuck in 3rd edition where a single autocannon was a pretty good weapon for a vehicle. It's just laughably undergunned compared to the other IG flyers and costs almost as much. The only remotely useful thing you can do with the model is try to proxy it as an Avenger.

Edit: proof that the model is great:

 carldooley wrote:

and how about flipping the question? what has great rules but lousey models?

The new Wulfen seem to have got that "niche" well covered. Or maybe the Chimera (how the feth does it's suspension work?)

 carldooley wrote:
and how about flipping the question? what has great rules but lousey models?

Titans, knights, and Tau MCs/GMCs. I would love to have those rules on a proper tank instead of completely implausible walkers and/or giant anime robots.

Mostly everything Niddy.

More specifically, Haruspex and Toxicrene.

 Peregrine wrote:
40k Lightning. The 30k Lightning is great, but the 40k rules are stuck in 3rd edition where a single autocannon was a pretty good weapon for a vehicle. It's just laughably undergunned compared to the other IG flyers and costs almost as much. The only remotely useful thing you can do with the model is try to proxy it as an Avenger.

Edit: proof that the model is great:

you know, images like that are reasons why these sites need Tb servers. That image is bigger than a lot of this site put together (excepting the other images)

OT, a single weapon with a platform wrapped around it are fine. the perception that it is undergunned is a result of escalation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EMUm8Zsfrk around :30

Great Model, Lousy rules:

Land Raider
Celestians
Orks - pretty much everythingthey have is stuck in 7th.

truely Dire models, great rules

Centurions
DreadKinght
Stormsurge
Avenger
All the GW Space marine flyers
Wulfen

 carldooley wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
40k Lightning. The 30k Lightning is great, but the 40k rules are stuck in 3rd edition where a single autocannon was a pretty good weapon for a vehicle. It's just laughably undergunned compared to the other IG flyers and costs almost as much. The only remotely useful thing you can do with the model is try to proxy it as an Avenger.

Edit: proof that the model is great:

you know, images like that are reasons why these sites need Tb servers. That image is bigger than a lot of this site put together (excepting the other images)

OT, a single weapon with a platform wrapped around it are fine. the perception that it is undergunned is a result of escalation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EMUm8Zsfrk around :30

No, the Nephilim really is undergunned. It should be a BS4 Avenger Stirke Fighter.

 Peregrine wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
and how about flipping the question? what has great rules but lousey models?

Titans, knights, and Tau MCs/GMCs. I would love to have those rules on a proper tank instead of completely implausible walkers and/or giant anime robots.

You are in the wrong fictional universe if you want that to happen friend.

Tau sniper drones i think are a good example ( i love the controller model).

Heavy bolter HWT for the guard, wait no ALL HWT teams.

IG snipers, use two cadian snipers in my list, they do better than what people expect but they need an upgrade, they were my second ever guard models from when i was a kid so i'm pretty close to them and want them to do better.

The aquilla lander...lol

Awesome Model, Lousy Rules:

The Pyrovore. I want to love you so badly man, but your rules just don't jive, even when compared to OTHER stuff in the nid codex.

Bloodcrushers. You had GOOD rules at one point man, what happened?

Awesome Rules, Lousy Model:

The Taurox: Decent, not great rules, but the thing looks like something Ork Mekboyz rejected.

Fleshhounds of Khorne. They look like lizards and the cost is ridiculous too. I'd rather get a box of 10 warhounds (which are literally half the cost for twice the amount!) than these guys.

Penitent Engines... so grimdark, so bad.

I'm going to have to second the Penitent Engine. Amazing Model, bad rules.

Lets see...

Anything with Terminator armour
Any Space Marine with a Heavy Bolter
About 90% of the Dark Eldar Codex.

Wyches. Great models, and I'd really like to run a Wych cult army, but their rules are just awful.

Great Models (especially with tons of conversion potential!) + Horrendously Awful Rules;
Chaos Lord
Daemon Prince
Dark Apostle
Warpsmith
Thousand Sons
Chaos Terminators
Possessed
Warptalons
Helbrute
Forge/Maulerfiend

Lousy Models + Lousy Rules;
Chaos Marines
Khorne Berserkers (lol! models aren't even from this century!)
Multilators!!
Chaos Land Raider
Chaos Predator
Chaos Vindicator
Defiler

Lousy Models + Average to Good Rules;
Plaguemarines
Noise Marines
Chaos Bikes
Obliterators

Good Models + Average to Good Rules;
Raptors
Hellturkey
Chaos Spawn


At least everyone for the most part has an entire range of good looking stuff... Chaos Marines get the worst rules, and are stuck with the fugliest model line in the game because, "feth Chaos!"