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I'm putting this post here, because I'm curious what other people that actually buy from Mantic feel, both generally about their customer service, and my specific situation. (I shared this story in the KOW thread as well)

I feel that their customer service/fulfillment is terrible beyond belief for a company of its size, and I have lost all faith in Mantic's ability to handle even straight forward complaints.

I pledged the Kings of War 2 Kickstarter, and, I was missing movement trays and counters from my wave one shipment, with a handwritten note "to follow" pointing to the missing items on my invoice. Like a good boy, I filled out a ticket, and I emailed Rick Armstrong.

He wrote back on November 19:

The trays literally only came in last Friday so I would expect the remaining items to be shipped shortly.

I'll send a reminder to the warehouse regarding this

Then on December 2nd, he wrote:

we were awaiting the tray stock which have come in and your missing parts have been shipped.

I, of course, never got them, so I emailed and let them know. He responded on January 18:

These recently came in so follow up orders are being sent.

Those reading closely will see that I got three different status on the trays: arrived in November, arrived and shipped in December, and just arrived in January. hmm...

I finally sent this email on February 19: "I'm just checking in to see if there has been any progress finding my counters or movement trays.
I see they are still listed as out of stock on the webstore. I'd really like to move on with my life, and so I'm going to order what I need for adepticon from another vendor. As you can imagine, my frustration at waiting over a year since the pledge manager, and six months since they should have arrived is quite high. I feel that mantic in general, and you specifically, have not been upfront with me on the ability to procure these items. I have lost a lot esteem for a company I've been a loyal customer of for since the first plastic elves."

His response on March 2:

Yes it has been a long time but saying I have not been upfront is nonsense.
I have supplied you with the information I have had when I have had it.

I will ask the warehouse to ship another package out to you fully tracked.

Please reconfirm a suitable shipping address and contact number so we can be sure they reach you.

So... They've had my money for a year. They clearly failed to order enough product to fulfill wave one pledges. I've been given different stories about when the stock will arrive. They are promising to ship me something that is still noted as pre-order only on their webstore. I've had to buy the same thing from a third party so I could use it at an event.

Yet somehow, when I say I feel they haven't been upfront with me, that's "nonsense"? What branch of customer service training teaches that?

There is an implied suggestion that they think they've shipped it to me already, perhaps multiple times, and think I'm trying to shake them down for free stuff. Which I'm sure happens, but if you think that, call me out. Don't just be a jerk.

I am a huge fan of Mantic's products and rules. But I was really offended by this, and I think I'm going to pull the plug on my support for them. If they can't scrape together the business acumen to at least pretend to be sorry when caught misrepresenting something, then I'm not sure how much of my money and support I want to give them.

I expect this thread/ you will be hammered and you will be told you're hurting people's feelings just like happened in that other thread about that other company that scams people out of money.

Truth hurts: if you systematically take people's money and don't deliver promised goods ( coinciding with one bs excuse after another) you are a thief. Calling yourself a "game company" doesn't change that fact.

I hope you get your money back/stuff.

I think they must be shipping their bases via the Bermuda Triangle or something - not sure what else can explain how they never seem to have any despite getting deliveries.

Regards the emails/service... it might have been better to say that they had a limited order in from the stockist and were sending them out in backer priority (based on when the pledge was locked in) and so your order might not go out in that shipment - I am assuming here of course that is what they were doing. Though they should know how many had arrived and the demand for them from the next X backers and so whether you, as backer Y would be getting your order through with that shipment.

Regards the missing shipment and a statement that your order was being processed in a subsequent email; it could just be the guy didn't check the records well and didn't realise your items were missing in the post rather than not shipped/re-shipped - it happens.

It is always hard to interpret tone in writing and even more difficult when you are annoyed over what has been happening.

 CT GAMER wrote:
I hope you get your money back/stuff.

I don't think Mantic is malicious, they haven't shown the slightest competency towards malice.

I'll admit, I was fishing for a refund offer in my last email, because I still assume that the items I want simply aren't available.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
It is always hard to interpret tone in writing and even more difficult when you are annoyed over what has been happening.

That's all true, but I think I was pretty clear in my email. I do feel frustrated, and I do feel like I've gotten the run around from them. To be told that my comments are nonsense because he's been telling me what he could, while correct, is both callously bad customer service and ignoring the core issue, which is that they still haven't delivered a good I paid for a year ago.

In your position, and after receiving a response like that, I think I would definitely consider moving on from Mantic.

They seem to have difficulties with the speed of their growth and especially on the customer service and quality control end of things.

But getting peevish with customers who have been waiting six months (!) to receive something they already paid for is just a terrible idea all round.

It's a shame. I want Mantic to succeed but I think if they don't sort that sort of thing out they're hamstringing themselves.

I would not move on from them - but I do think it's reasonable to just straightforwardly ask for a refund on those items, or to ask to speak to someone else if possible. His response obviously wasn't very professional as they clearly Have been leading you on in a sense... but I think it's best to just ignore all that, and focus on what you want - just a refund on those items or a credit towards the webstore, to move on from the mess that is the bases (since you've had to get others already).

Don't move on from KoW, I've been counting on you to be my regular opponent

No, I enjoy KOW too much to give it up, plus I just painted 4000 points of ogres (mantic models, even), so I'd like to use them.

There's enough overlap between what I pledged for and what I bought third party that I won't be bummed if they actually deliver. It's things like Ogre Legion trays and Cavalry regimental trays, which I didn't order. Plus Ogre Horde and Regiment trays, which I could easily use more of.

If I get the moment, I may let Ronnie know what happened if he's at Adepticon. He probably doesn't remember my name, but he's personally sold me enough stuff at Cons that he remembers me as a long time customer. I wonder if he knows what's going on with his customer service.

I may just go full Chaotic Evil and just become a Mantic Troll in every Kickstarter thread.

I think a direct approach is better, personally . I can't imagine Ronnie knows what's going on, and if he is at AdeptiCon I'm pretty sure he'd try to make it right on the spot! In fact, any representative of theirs might do so.

I'm going to want your advice on making KoW ModCubes, too

I don't think Mantic is malicious, they haven't shown the slightest competency towards malice.

Yup - Hanlon's razor.

"never assume malice when stupidity will suffice", and "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

I have had good customer service from Mantic.

I even got preferential customer serevice from them. Let me explain.

When my Dungeon Saga pledge arrived my dragon was badly glued together, and I wondered if it would be fixable. So I sent an email labelled 'Karrathor the Broken' basically asking for advice as to safe disassembly without ruining the miniature..

This was long before the 8th December deadline for start of customer service complaints. Because of tthe email label, a play on the monsters name of Karrathor the Unbroken the email got Mantics attention, not only did they reply immediately but they sent me a new dragon, which arrived later that week, and told me how to try to fix the one I had. Luckily the fix went well and I now have two dragons.

Mantic commentated that they couldn't resist replying to that email because of its thread title, even though they still shipping and werent dealing with customer replies about Dungeon Saga in general at the time. So perhaps it was my approach.

I've also had fantastic customer service, and have had a wait as long as you. Basically it comes down to multiple apology models and such. Now, I was a bit bothered by how long it was taking to get the base pledge, but 3 days after Matt got involved, I had an invoice it was on its way, and 2 days after that I had my pledge in hand.

 Polonius wrote:


I may just go full Chaotic Evil and just become a Mantic Troll in every Kickstarter thread.

Isn't that spiting your legs, to punish your... um... face? :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Polonius wrote:


I may just go full Chaotic Evil and just become a Mantic Troll in every Kickstarter thread.

Isn't that spiting your legs, to punish your... um... face? :-p

I see what you did there

Polonius, I'd say demand a refund. Buy your trays from elsewhere (war-bases.co.uk has the same trays for more or less the exact same price, and they have great customer support) and if you want any Mantic stuff buy from retailers until you think they've gotten their act together.

Similar to how one handle buying miniatures from Avatars of War. (i.e wait till you have the physical product sitting on the shelf of your FLGS)

I think my recommendation is just 'wait for retail' going forward. - Most specifically, "wait for their holiday sales."

That way, you're going to get your minis, you're only going to miss out on any ks exclusives (which probably won't be gotten round to painting anyway, or will get lost anyhows)

I'm kinda cynical of mantic now myself. - Not because I've been stuffed particularly badly by their mistakes but because my mates have. - For some reason, even though I'm fine, that tends to damper any local enthusiasm for the company.

 CT GAMER wrote:
I expect this thread/ you will be hammered and you will be told you're hurting people's feelings just like happened in that other thread about that other company that scams people out of money.

Truth hurts: if you systematically take people's money and don't deliver promised goods ( coinciding with one bs excuse after another) you are a thief. Calling yourself a "game company" doesn't change that fact.

I hope you get your money back/stuff.

But not before somebody climbs on a soapbox and starts yelling that 'Mantic is Evil!!!1!', eh?

I am pretty sure that most people will agree that was bad customer service, regardless of how much they may like Mantic stuff.

I've had to deal with Mantic customer service, and the experience was okay - but others have had problems.

This... definitely sounds like a problem.

The Auld Grump

I've only had one problem, I bought the abyssal dwarf £50 box from thetrolltrader and it was missing the golem bases and a unit of infernal guard (?). I contacted them and had the replacements two weeks later.

I hope yours get sorted.

You could always complain on the Mantic official forums, if you can get them to work.

I think mantic have been guilty of rushing into project after project without first looking to fix the issues that have arisen this rapid expansionand the lack of care from their customer service team.

First of all the team seems very small in relation to what is being asked of it and also appears not to be full time, but just people put in there as and when available.

I have had both great and really appalling responses from them and it is always the negatives that you remember. A lot of it did seem to be from the same person who simply just did not get that he was there to help resolve problems not to blindly take a pop at anyone who wanted to get what they paid for - Mantic train and vet your staff.

To be fair it does loo like Mantic have now realised that they were losing potential return customers because the initial dealing with them were fraught to say the least in a lot of reported instances. So staff have been recruited changes have been made. However, this will only be positive if they keep a high professional team in place.

We will have to wait and see

I bought the two player mega set, but received the two battle set by mistake (which is half the price). It took a long time, but they did send out the mega set and let me have the battle set for free.

So well worth the wait.

My first order from mantic was missed by shop software, some bug maybe, for present day my first order not shown in my buyer history. And nobody was known that order was missed, for two month.
In my third order they was missed one blister.

In both cases when problem was solved, extra miniatures+apologizes was sent to me.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:
I expect this thread/ you will be hammered and you will be told you're hurting people's feelings just like happened in that other thread about that other company that scams people out of money.

Truth hurts: if you systematically take people's money and don't deliver promised goods ( coinciding with one bs excuse after another) you are a thief. Calling yourself a "game company" doesn't change that fact.

I hope you get your money back/stuff.

But not before somebody climbs on a soapbox and starts yelling that 'Mantic is Evil!!!1!', eh?

I am pretty sure that most people will agree that was bad customer service, regardless of how much they may like Mantic stuff.

I've had to deal with Mantic customer service, and the experience was okay - but others have had problems.

This... definitely sounds like a problem.

The Auld Grump

Evil? Probably not. Just bad at what they do perhaps...

The OP did ask for opinions right? I didn't start a thread, i responded to a question.

Remember if companies did what they promised and had good customer service people would have no need get on a soapbox or start a thread like this to begin with...

I solved my Mantic issues the easy way - by never dealing with them again. They are all too much about making the sale, then moving on to the next shiny squirrel they spot 5 seconds later.

Say what you will about GW's evil business practices, but myself and my circle of friends have never gotten anything but exemplary customer service from them over the last almost 30 years now on the few occasions someone has had an issue.

 CT GAMER wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:
I expect this thread/ you will be hammered and you will be told you're hurting people's feelings just like happened in that other thread about that other company that scams people out of money.

Truth hurts: if you systematically take people's money and don't deliver promised goods ( coinciding with one bs excuse after another) you are a thief. Calling yourself a "game company" doesn't change that fact.

I hope you get your money back/stuff.

But not before somebody climbs on a soapbox and starts yelling that 'Mantic is Evil!!!1!', eh?

I am pretty sure that most people will agree that was bad customer service, regardless of how much they may like Mantic stuff.

I've had to deal with Mantic customer service, and the experience was okay - but others have had problems.

This... definitely sounds like a problem.

The Auld Grump

Evil? Probably not. Just bad at what they do perhaps...

The OP did ask for opinions right? I didn't start a thread, i responded to a question.

Remember if companies did what they promised and had good customer service people would have no need get on a soapbox or start a thread like this to begin with...

However, I will point out that no such defenders have shown up on this thread.

Making your preemptive attack... amusing.

Because looking through past posts on Mantic's Customer Service... there have never been exactly a whole slew of those shouting defenders. *EDIT* Defenders of their sculpting style and rules making, yes. Defending their spotty shipping? Not so much.

So why bring them up, just so you can stand above your (imaginary) foes?

While you responded, you did not address his actual question.

Instead you went on the offensive, and attacked the company, with no suggestion as to how he should deal with the problem.

Neither a useful nor a constructive response.


The Auld Grump - shouting defenders with hammers seem to be more of a GW problem....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 totalfailure wrote:
I solved my Mantic issues the easy way - by never dealing with them again. They are all too much about making the sale, then moving on to the next shiny squirrel they spot 5 seconds later.

Say what you will about GW's evil business practices, but myself and my circle of friends have never gotten anything but exemplary customer service from them over the last almost 30 years now on the few occasions someone has had an issue.

Going back to the eighties and early nineties - GW did have a very real problem with bad customer service. (They even apologized for it in White Dwarf.)

But that is very much a problem that they have addressed - they now have excellent customer service, and should serve as a model for Mantic and other companies to emulate, in that regard, if nothing else.

Mantic needs a dedicated warehouse and packing crew - what they have seems to be a pool of people, with each chipping in as time allows. Good for team spirit, horrible for consistently good results.

Right now, they are going through many of the same problems that caused trouble for GW mail order back in those halcyon days of yore - too much business, too few people, and no protocols in place for when things go off the rails.

I make no secret of the fact that I dislike GW - but they do have great customer service, and with Rountree, they do seem to be making an effort to start climbing out of the hole that they have been digging, rather than just getting a bigger shovel.

I have had a few dealings with Mantic Customer Service - and they did fix the problems... eventually.

The Auld Grump

We can all agree that mantic's cuatomer service is patchy at best, sometimes downright abyssmal. However, i wonder how much of this bad press here stems from the almost ever present Kickstarters they run?

It seems that there seems to be a dedicated small number of people who swear off Mantic because of poor service biut like a moth are drawn to the flame of more plastic goodness only to then find niggling faults which they will send post after post about. I have seen some who have sold their pledges, sight unseen only to hang around stirring the pot - the interweb being such that it is easier to join the baying mob so people will add to the general negativity.

This is not to defend Mantic too strongly, poor packing processes, delays in responding to customers happenning time after time are unexcuseable if you want to build a steady customer base. I am glad to see this is being addressed by hiring dedicated packing andcustomer service staff and especaiaaly getting some sort of complaint ticketing in place.

The proof will likely be in how they deliver the Walking Dead KS and at the same time resolve the outstandng issues from the earlier KS's

I can't speak for anybody else, but I've bought Mantic at retail, frome FLGS, from their webstore, and at conventions. I have a fully painted, fully Mantic Ogre army. I played KoW in first edition (backed the kickstarter) and I'm playing it now.

I backed their kickstarters not to stir the pot, because they offered me a good value for my money, and I liked their products.

I'm not swearing them off, but I'm not sure if I'll be backing their kickstarters going forward.

I have backed most (but not all) of Mantic's Kickstarters, and have generally been pretty happy, even when I had to wait on stuff coming later because it wasn't in the box.... (Generally, the KS price is low enough that I save money, even if I didn't get the stuff at all.)

I gather that they know of the problem... but if they are actually working on fixing it...?

On the other hand, I am really wishing that I had gone in on Dungeon Saga.... (Zombie trolls....)

The Auld Grump

Yeah that's the thing that bugs me most. - They did the whole apologising for it and vowing they'll do better two years in a row.

Ronnie certainly knows there is something rotten in warehouse land as he's frequently messaged/referred to when problems come up in the fascebook group I'm in

(and this is after Zak(? I may have the name wrong) was hired to head up the dept and start fixing the problems)

Sadly I think part of the issue is under-ordering stock either because that's all they can afford to, or because they don't want to be stuck with inventory to pad out the crazy boxes for years to come like they have in the past

so the have demand from KS backers missing stuff, demand from website sales and demand from distributors and stores

so when a restock comes in I suspect KS backers aren't getting first pick as they should (as they make up lots of complicated individual orders),

but the distributors are (send out X pallets of stock really easy to do) so by the time they get to the KS backers with problems they've run out of stuff again

what I really hope they'll learn to do is go through all the missing/broken reports and log what they need then pull it all out and set it aside as 'NOT TO BE SOLD' when new stock comes and stick to it being for fixing the KS issues even if they then run out of distributor/store stock

 Polonius wrote:
I pledged the Kings of War 2 Kickstarter,

I found the problem.
The problem is that people forget that kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
You are paying money and then they have to go and make and ship your product.

I'm not defending Mantic, promises have been made of a miniature nature. I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

 =Angel= wrote:
I just find it amusing when people get mad that there are delays or problems getting a product that hadn't been finalized when you paid for it.

Did you actually read my post? First, my biggest concern wasn't that there was a delay, but that I was never told that there was going to be a delay, but rather repeatedly assured that my stuff will be sent right out. Second, when I pointed out that I felt mislead, the customer service rep described that as nonsense. Third, while I did not explicitly ask for a refund, I certainly implied that I'd be open to that, especially since I bought what I needed from another vendor.

I mean, to an extent, you are correct. I pledged a kickstarter knowing full well there could be delays or even failure. I highly doubt that Mantic would want to adopt that defense.