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Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

weeble1000 wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sure was nice of GW to allow Nick to buy a ticket to appear in court.

Why are they not seperating his assets between his personal and business? Probably because he just put it all in the same account?


There is a difference between a plaintiff trying to seize personal assets and being able to seize personal assets. Chapterhouse Studios is an LLC, and Nick Villacci is not a named defendant in the lawsuit. If the company has been run properly, Nick's personal assets should be well enough protected.

That Games Workshop is trying to seize Nick's personal assets is astounding and extremely aggressive. As a company that just wanted Chapterhouse Studios to stop selling the infringing products, for Games Workshop to seek the personal assets of the owner is abhorrent.


Is that what they actually are trying to do? I thought it was just the LLC; I thought you couldn't go after personal assets unless the corporation did something illegal (that whole "piercing the veil" thing).

If they really are trying to go after his personal assets, well it makes sense. GW is the Imperium, and the Imperium doesn't rest until traitors/heretics are exterminated and ground into the dust, and their entire world blasted to oblivion so that nothing remains. I bet if it was legal they'd have tried to have him killed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/17 15:23:13


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Befor jumping on gw he said his personel assets are threatend but not by who as said above it could be morgage or other creditors after his stuff. True it would probibly be caused by the lawsuit asset freeeze but it might not be gw after them. Theres not enough info to blame gw on personal assets, unless he didnt split bussiness and home.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's certainly plausible that some of his assets (or a lot of them) are tied into the business in some way

eg did he work out of his house ? (if so did the business formally pay rent)
who bought his car (it could be a company asset, but still something he needs to get about etc)

In my (admittedly limited) experience small business owners are not good at keeping company and private stuff properly separate even if they do set up a LLC, work stuff gets used at home, home stuff is used at work etc

this makes it easy for a lawyer to argue that something should be considered a company asset even if the owner does not agree

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

If in fact CHS is an LLC then Nick could be conflating his personal financial woes and the business's. He could have used his house as collateral for a business loan which would naturally be affected by a freeze of business assets. Also, as has already been mentioned, his inability to conduct business will naturally affect his ability to pay his mortgage and bills, etc.

Tough all around. Sure, GW has a legal right to the court-ordered amount; however, since an appeal is in play it appears to just be sour grapes on their part to take this sort of action. Again, probably just another delay and scorched-earth tactic on GW Counsel's part to harm CHS as much as possible while dragging out the litigation process. The delay confuses me since CHS has pro-bono counsel while GW has to pay billable hours for theirs. Risk-reward I guess if the end result is them being able to show the world that they can litigate anyone to death, even if they receive pro-bono assistance.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

Actually I think they have shown the world that their fortress walls are made of paper mache.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 agnosto wrote:
If in fact CHS is an LLC then Nick could be conflating his personal financial woes and the business's. He could have used his house as collateral for a business loan which would naturally be affected by a freeze of business assets. Also, as has already been mentioned, his inability to conduct business will naturally affect his ability to pay his mortgage and bills, etc.

Tough all around. Sure, GW has a legal right to the court-ordered amount; however, since an appeal is in play it appears to just be sour grapes on their part to take this sort of action. Again, probably just another delay and scorched-earth tactic on GW Counsel's part to harm CHS as much as possible while dragging out the litigation process. The delay confuses me since CHS has pro-bono counsel while GW has to pay billable hours for theirs. Risk-reward I guess if the end result is them being able to show the world that they can litigate anyone to death, even if they receive pro-bono assistance.


As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the types of filings that we are discussing are far, far, far cheaper than appellate briefing.

Appellate briefing generally takes substantive document review, extensive legal research, lots of back and forth between counsel, drafting substantive memorandums, editing those drafts, revising those drafts, filing the appropriate documents, and appearing in person to argue motions. And once the briefing schedule gets reinstated, the dates are set and the clock is running. If you don't do the work, you run the risk of adversely impacting your client's interests. What we are discussing here is comparatively low impact in terms of billable hours.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/17 16:25:11


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




 Bahkara wrote:
If That's The case then bad on him for having all his eggs in one basket and choosing to fight. I may not like what GW did but if it's within their rights I can't blame them.


Yes, you absolutely can.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical.
   
Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




 jonolikespie wrote:
Actually I think they have shown the world that their fortress walls are made of paper mache.


And that ultimately seems to amount to nothing at all if you are a small company trying to defend yourself from a mostly frivolous lawsuit since the court allows a bigger company to pull all of these shenanigans anyway.

People are putting all of the blame on GW because this move seems motivated by nothing other than spite, but the very idea of a court of law that allows such a thing to happen in the first place is completely appalling to me! Freezing a companies assets in such a way that prevents them from conducting any business at all, thereby probably condemning that company to bankruptcy, and doing it while the appeal process is still ongoing? That is the law?

What happens if CHS is forced into bankruptcy because of this freeze and the appellate court reverses the damages payment? Is Nick compensated for the loss of his business? By whom? Will he have to waste even more of his life on a counter suit?

This whole trial has been nothing but a freak show from the start and it really doesn't shine a very positive light in the US judicial system...

   
Made in us
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Given the mainstream media was apparently quite interested in Spots The Space Marine, anyone got any connections that are worth pointing this story at? Big bully corporation vs small home business is generally quite good for a few column inches, and GW deserves to get a(nother) kicking for this.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the mainstream media was apparently quite interested in Spots The Space Marine, anyone got any connections that are worth pointing this story at? Big bully corporation vs small home business is generally quite good for a few column inches, and GW deserves to get a(nother) kicking for this.


I think the big thing with Spots was that proceeds were being donated to a charity, and one for veterans at that, and the US is very big on veterans so anyone trying to take money from veterans is pure evil (in the same category as kicking puppies)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/17 17:05:40


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

weeble1000 wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
If in fact CHS is an LLC then Nick could be conflating his personal financial woes and the business's. He could have used his house as collateral for a business loan which would naturally be affected by a freeze of business assets. Also, as has already been mentioned, his inability to conduct business will naturally affect his ability to pay his mortgage and bills, etc.

Tough all around. Sure, GW has a legal right to the court-ordered amount; however, since an appeal is in play it appears to just be sour grapes on their part to take this sort of action. Again, probably just another delay and scorched-earth tactic on GW Counsel's part to harm CHS as much as possible while dragging out the litigation process. The delay confuses me since CHS has pro-bono counsel while GW has to pay billable hours for theirs. Risk-reward I guess if the end result is them being able to show the world that they can litigate anyone to death, even if they receive pro-bono assistance.


As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the types of filings that we are discussing are far, far, far cheaper than appellate briefing.

Appellate briefing generally takes substantive document review, extensive legal research, lots of back and forth between counsel, drafting substantive memorandums, editing those drafts, revising those drafts, filing the appropriate documents, and appearing in person to argue motions. And once the briefing schedule gets reinstated, the dates are set and the clock is running. If you don't do the work, you run the risk of adversely impacting your client's interests. What we are discussing here is comparatively low impact in terms of billable hours.


I get that. What I don't get is the assumption that they appear to have that somehow all of that, which will have to happen eventually since they seem to be unwilling to settle, combined with these cheaper actions is somehow cheaper overall. If something is going to cost me $500, it's cheaper to pay the $500 than the $500 plus $50, plus $100, plus $50, etc... But that's common sense which appears to be completely absent in this case.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Redmond, WA

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the mainstream media was apparently quite interested in Spots The Space Marine, anyone got any connections that are worth pointing this story at? Big bully corporation vs small home business is generally quite good for a few column inches, and GW deserves to get a(nother) kicking for this.


I would just LOVE to see this suit addressed on The Daily Show!

https://gumroad.com/wulfsheademiniatures

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/wulfsheade-miniatures 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

PhantomViper wrote:

People are putting all of the blame on GW because this move seems motivated by nothing other than spite, but the very idea of a court of law that allows such a thing to happen in the first place is completely appalling to me! Freezing a companies assets in such a way that prevents them from conducting any business at all, thereby probably condemning that company to bankruptcy, and doing it while the appeal process is still ongoing? That is the law?

What happens if CHS is forced into bankruptcy because of this freeze and the appellate court reverses the damages payment? Is Nick compensated for the loss of his business? By whom? Will he have to waste even more of his life on a counter suit?

This whole trial has been nothing but a freak show from the start and it really doesn't shine a very positive light in the US judicial system...



First, wait to see how Judge Kennelly rules after the October 23rd hearing. Second, all the more reason to see this case in the hands of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

The appeal is very important, and it should not be surprising, given the significance of the legal issues at stake, that a top tier law firm has taken the appeal pro-bono with one of its senior partners at the helm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 agnosto wrote:

I get that. What I don't get is the assumption that they appear to have that somehow all of that, which will have to happen eventually since they seem to be unwilling to settle, combined with these cheaper actions is somehow cheaper overall. If something is going to cost me $500, it's cheaper to pay the $500 than the $500 plus $50, plus $100, plus $50, etc... But that's common sense which appears to be completely absent in this case.


That's the nail on the head right there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/17 19:23:26


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the mainstream media was apparently quite interested in Spots The Space Marine, anyone got any connections that are worth pointing this story at? Big bully corporation vs small home business is generally quite good for a few column inches, and GW deserves to get a(nother) kicking for this.


I'd like to see this as well, this is amounting to a kicking by the school bully behind the bike sheds at the moment. It needs a wider audience.

Looky Likey wrote:Spiteful move from GW.


It's been spiteful since the very beginning when GW issued legal proceedings on Xmas eve. I find it extremely worrying for the mental health of the people that would orchestrate such a thing, that they are treating it so personally.

And then you get the likes of Alan Merritt reputedly refusing to pick up a CHS miniature because of 'toxic resin'. What a prick.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Lawyers. Best place to use the terminology WAAC if there ever was one.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

I must admit, this has moved me from a disinterested "Oh GW, you so wacky." stance, to actively rooting for the company to perish.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Redmond, WA

 Elemental wrote:
I must admit, this has moved me from a disinterested "Oh GW, you so wacky." stance, to actively rooting for the company to perish.


Why? What about all the other staff that really have no say in how the company is run? Jobs are hard enough to come by, having yet another company go under won't help.

As critical as I am about another gaming company, I wouldn't want to see them go under either. There are plenty of people working there that have no say in the direction the company takes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/02 00:47:44


https://gumroad.com/wulfsheademiniatures

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/wulfsheade-miniatures 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:
 Elemental wrote:
I must admit, this has moved me from a disinterested "Oh GW, you so wacky." stance, to actively rooting for the company to perish.


Why? What about all the other staff that really have no say in how the company is run? Jobs are hard enough to come by, having yet another company go under won't help.

As critical as I am about another gaming company, I wouldn't want to see them go under either. There are plenty of people working there that have no say in the direction the company takes.

Maybe a change in leadership is what's needed, nothing more. Maybe Kirby stepping down is the start of this change.


Kirby stepped down as CEO, he's still Chairman of the Board of Directors; don't hold your breath for any change.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Kirby stepping down (as Chairman) is much more likely if GW struggles for a bit... not that this will likely affect that one way or the other.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/17 20:39:20


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

That'll do, folks. This thread can go dormant until we get more news around the 23rd.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

The hearing on the 23rd has been postponed until November 11th. Apparently the asset freeze was a precursor to reopening settlement negotiations.

JOINT MOTION TO RESET CITATION PROCEEDING
Plaintiff Games Workshop Limited (“GW”) and Chapterhouse Studios LLC
(“Chapterhouse”) jointly state as follows:
1. On September 17, 2014, GW filed a Citation to Discover Assets against Chapterhouse.
The Citation commanded that Chapterhouse appear in this court October 14, 2014, at
9:30 a.m.
2. On October 8, 2014, GW and Chapterhouse agreed to postpone the Citation proceeding
to Thursday, October 23.
3. The parties have since reopened settlement negotiations. In order to provide additional
time for these negotiations, GW and Chapterhouse jointly agree to reset the Citation
proceeding for November 11, 2014, at 9:30 a.m.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Does this mean that Chapterhouse now has access to their funds again, or is this another stalling tactic taken to extend the period in which the assets are frozen?

If Chapterhouse has not regained access to their funds then this is not a good thing.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in dk
Stormin' Stompa





So, dear legal Oracles, was the freezing of assets a way for GW to gain a better position in the settlement negotiations?
Or are the the re-opened negotiations merely happening after, but not caused by, the freezing of assets?

Are CH's assets frozen now or is that postponed (and not executed) with the re-opening of negotiations?

-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."

18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000


 
   
Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




weeble1000 wrote:
The hearing on the 23rd has been postponed until November 11th. Apparently the asset freeze was a precursor to reopening settlement negotiations.


I'm sorry, but you are going to have to translate this one for me...

How is the asset freeze a precursor to reopening settlement negotiations? From that Facebook post that Nick posted, this asset freeze wasn't some automatic procedure, it was deliberate and requested by GW. Why is CHS continuing with the negotiations after the asset freeze instead of going straight to the appeal?

Can these types of asset freeze be used as a pressure tactic to force a defendant to cave in to further trial postponements?
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




It's possible (though I am totally guessing) that CHS felt that they were in a position of legal strength in the coming appeal hearings, and had left off settlement talks (possibly because they weren't satisfied with what GW was offering).

If that were the case, then this action freezing the assets of CHS could have been a attempt to strong-arm CHS back into settlement talks.

I'm totally inferring this here. The legal expert types can tell me if those are reasonable interpretations or not.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sure was nice of GW to allow Nick to buy a ticket to appear in court.

Why are they not seperating his assets between his personal and business? Probably because he just put it all in the same account?


Depending on how he registered his business, the law might not recognize the difference between CHS and Nick. He is likely a Sole Proprietership.

And buying a plane ticket to appear in court is definitely something that should be paid for by the business and not his personal assets.

 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 odinsgrandson wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sure was nice of GW to allow Nick to buy a ticket to appear in court.

Why are they not seperating his assets between his personal and business? Probably because he just put it all in the same account?


Depending on how he registered his business, the law might not recognize the difference between CHS and Nick. He is likely a Sole Proprietership.

And buying a plane ticket to appear in court is definitely something that should be paid for by the business and not his personal assets.

Except in the court filings it shows CH as a LLC. And since they're filing against the LLC and the LLC had to purchase the ticket...

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

Saldiven wrote:
It's possible (though I am totally guessing) that CHS felt that they were in a position of legal strength in the coming appeal hearings, and had left off settlement talks (possibly because they weren't satisfied with what GW was offering).

If that were the case, then this action freezing the assets of CHS could have been a attempt to strong-arm CHS back into settlement talks.

I'm totally inferring this here. The legal expert types can tell me if those are reasonable interpretations or not.


And that's all one can do, really.

Suffice it to say that the information indicates A) that settlement negotiations had ceased some time prior to now and B) the parties have now re-opened settlement negotiations after GW's notice to discover assets. Them's the facts.

Presumably, the asset freeze remains in place.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission





GTA

I have very little legal training but I have a question for the legal types around here. Why doesn't CH just go straight to the appeal trial? With pro bono representation would it not be better to go just get your day in court so to speak then sit around for GW to pull all of this crap?

Why bother with all of these "talks" and waiting. Clearly GW wants the company dead so I doubt there would be any point in talking. Can't CH say they want a court date and duke it out in court instead of all of this BS?

How is it to CH advantage to sit around instead of getting the trial started?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/20 21:43:55


 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Have my babies Anvil Industries!

 Anvils Hammer wrote:

@MrFlutterPie - That's not currently a service we offer, but you can purchase quality miniatures from us..

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I have very little legal training but I have a question for the legal types around here. Why doesn't CH just go straight to the appeal trial? With pro bono representation would it not be better to go just get your day in court so to speak then sit around for GW to pull all of this crap?

Why bother with all of these "talks" and waiting. Clearly GW wants the company dead so I doubt there would be any point in talking. Can't CH say they want a court date and duke it out in court instead of all of this BS?

How is it to CH advantage to sit around instead of getting the trial started?


Most courts have rules which require parties to go through mediation of some form both before trial and before appeal. The idea is to help keep the dockets clear of court cases that might be misunderstandings, hot tempers or other issues that can be dealt with in that way. When the goal is to crush your opponent, and the other goal is to survive...there is little room for compromise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote:
 odinsgrandson wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sure was nice of GW to allow Nick to buy a ticket to appear in court.

Why are they not seperating his assets between his personal and business? Probably because he just put it all in the same account?


Depending on how he registered his business, the law might not recognize the difference between CHS and Nick. He is likely a Sole Proprietership.

And buying a plane ticket to appear in court is definitely something that should be paid for by the business and not his personal assets.

Except in the court filings it shows CH as a LLC. And since they're filing against the LLC and the LLC had to purchase the ticket...


It has been alluded to already, but "piercing the veil" is an issue which most small business owners end up doing - either carelessly, out of ignorance or just bad paperwork.

If (as is often the case) this has happened - GW's lawyers may be going after that in order to move beyond what limited assets are held by the LLC (molds, masters, whatever casting equipment Nick might have) and going after his house, retirement funds, cars and the like. It is surprisingly easy to loose the protections of your LLC - and because the rules are rather complicated...and much more boring than making miniatures...many people who don't have a background, are not fully informed on what they must do in order to keep their personal assets separate from those of the corporation.

Not sure what Nick's background is - but based off from discussions I have had with many small business owners, lawyers, tax accountants and the like...a very small portion of LLCs would actually stand up to an aggressive attempt to break down the wall. I myself was taught that lesson by a friendly IRS audit many years ago...from what we have seen of GW's lawyers - I would guess that they are probably looking as closely as those nice IRS agents did for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/20 22:36:58


 
   
 
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