Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well this whole situation feels an awful lot like opening negotiations by pointing a gun at the person across from you.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Well this whole situation feels an awful lot like opening negotiations by pointing a gun at the person across from you.

GW is Greedo and CHS is Han...


On topic, this is pretty much my first thought upon reading that but now Nick doesn't get to do business until November, wow. I find it hard to believe that his attorneys are ok with this (much less himself). The stall tactics have to end at some point but it appears the court is more than happy for the large corporation to drag the small business along for however long they feel like.

 agnosto wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Well this whole situation feels an awful lot like opening negotiations by pointing a gun at the person across from you.

GW is Greedo and CHS is Han...


On topic, this is pretty much my first thought upon reading that but now Nick doesn't get to do business until November, wow. I find it hard to believe that his attorneys are ok with this (much less himself). The stall tactics have to end at some point but it appears the court is more than happy for the large corporation to drag the small business along for however long they feel like.

Of course the courts are. Welcome to America.

 agnosto wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Well this whole situation feels an awful lot like opening negotiations by pointing a gun at the person across from you.

GW is Greedo and CHS is Han..

Original trilogy or re-release? Who shot first matters, your comment could have a double-meaning.

Seems to me that the system works to prevent people using their right to appeal. You can try pursue your right to appeal but as the opposition can lock all your assets down to prevent you paying the bills or operating the company for as long at they wish to drag their feet, you are at their mercy. I fail to see what is just about this, it's wide open to abuse. Anyone, like Nick, trying to appeal can see themselves locked down and unable to pay their bills to live. That's coercion to pay the settlement rather than be allowed use your right to appeal a court decision. No doubt it'll still go GW's way though, they seem to see very little consequence for trying to waste time and mislead the court in the various ways they have throughout this case.

There are mechanisms in place to prevent having your assets frozen:

1) Pay what you owe.
2) Post a supersedeas bond.
3) Request a stay or lower bond.

All steps that CHS could have but did not take. Now there might be reasons for that - CHS might not have the money to pay or post a bond. Legal counsel may have advised that obtaining a stay or lower bond would be impossible. But it is hardly surprising that the courts allow a judgment creditor to freeze assets and haul a debtor to court to provide a detailed accounting of those assets.


On the flip side, if I were in CHS's shoes and had 25k on hand, and felt like being an donkey-cave, I'd force GW to pay its lawyers to do a discovery and file some motions before I paid them. Make them burn a couple grand on legal fees. But I'm a jerk and being served over christmas would have ticked me off.

Depending on whether a cost award was likely of course, and how much business I'd miss out on over the couple of weeks before the discovery.

Not saying that is what is going on. But its one of the reasons post-judgment interest exists.

czakk wrote:
There are mechanisms in place to prevent having your assets frozen:

1) Pay what you owe.
2) Post a supersedeas bond.
3) Request a stay or lower bond.

All steps that CHS could have but did not take. Now there might be reasons for that - CHS might not have the money to pay or post a bond. Legal counsel may have advised that obtaining a stay or lower bond would be impossible. But it is hardly surprising that the courts allow a judgment creditor to freeze assets and haul a debtor to court to provide a detailed accounting of those assets.


On the flip side, if I were in CHS's shoes and had 25k on hand, and felt like being an donkey-cave, I'd force GW to pay its lawyers to do a discovery and file some motions before I paid them. Make them burn a couple grand on legal fees. But I'm a jerk and being served over christmas would have ticked me off.

Depending on whether a cost award was likely of course, and how much business I'd miss out on over the couple of weeks before the discovery.

Not saying that is what is going on. But its one of the reasons post-judgment interest exists.

If CHS could have requested a stay then why didn't they? If the judicial system allows all those "simple" solutions, how are CHS's assets still frozen after all this time?

And its not surprising to you that a court basically allows a company to become bankrupt through an inability to trade because of a judgement that hasn't even made it past the appeals process yet?

That is a great justice system that you guys have going there.

This may slightly be at a tangent but how was Alan Merritt employed in the role of head of IP (or whatever) within GW?

This case has shown he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. On his watch it has been shown that GW don't own what they think they own. AND this case. for GW, was supposed to be open and shut and is now 4 years on with GW only slightly closer to their goal.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This may slightly be at a tangent but how was Alan Merritt employed in the role of head of IP (or whatever) within GW?

This case has shown he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. On his watch it has been shown that GW don't own what they think they own. AND this case. for GW, was supposed to be open and shut and is now 4 years on with GW only slightly closer to their goal.

Because GW hires for attitude, not skills.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This may slightly be at a tangent but how was Alan Merritt employed in the role of head of IP (or whatever) within GW?

This case has shown he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. On his watch it has been shown that GW don't own what they think they own. AND this case. for GW, was supposed to be open and shut and is now 4 years on with GW only slightly closer to their goal.

Because GW hires for attitude, not skills.

Yeah, I fell into that one.

He's been at the company a long time, before Kirby I think, maybe the longest serving staff still there. Maybe he got it as it seemed something he should have after working his way up, there may never have been an appreciation of what it may entail. GW isn't that big a company, they probably can't attract or afford the sort of experience required to run their legal department in the 'proactive' manner they wish. As it turns out, it is being shown their bark was a lot more effective than their bite. That might not help CHS in the long run but it's of interest to everyone else.

It also has to be repeated that the majority of claims by GW were dropped or thrown out. CHS may have infringed in places but how is anyone to know where the line really is? GW are dishonest and prove repeatedly to claim ownership of far more than they do.

Its kind of hard to tell who in the wrong anymore when both sides have made some glaring mistakes.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This may slightly be at a tangent but how was Alan Merritt employed in the role of head of IP (or whatever) within GW?

This case has shown he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. On his watch it has been shown that GW don't own what they think they own. AND this case. for GW, was supposed to be open and shut and is now 4 years on with GW only slightly closer to their goal.

Alan Merrett was, and is, "Director of Intellectual Property" and head of the "Intellectual Property Protection Group." He started casting miniatures for GW and oozed his way up the corporate ladder.

The Imperial Answer wrote:


Its kind of hard to tell who in the wrong anymore when both sides have made some glaring mistakes.

The initial verdict (which of course is subject to amendment due to appeals) showed that both sides were in the wrong when it came to certain actions.

Concluding that that means that both sides were equally wrong is not reasoning honestly. "Wrong" doesn't have to be a black/white proposition is this trial.



....

Steelmage99 wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:


Its kind of hard to tell who in the wrong anymore when both sides have made some glaring mistakes.

The initial verdict (which of course is subject to amendment due to appeals) showed that both sides were in the wrong when it came to certain actions.

Concluding that that means that both sides were equally wrong is not reasoning honestly. "Wrong" doesn't have to be a black/white proposition is this trial.



....

Especially when some of the things that one side were deemed to be "wrong" about in court have been viewed as suspect by a large number of people and are currently being appealed.

Freezing CHS assets was an unnecessary move on GW's part since CHS' assets and sales records were already a matter of record with the court and CHS' cash on hand exceeds what's owed. Unless there is something we aren't aware of this fact makes it clear its a purely malicious move.

I am curious what Judge signed off on an asset freeze as its usually only done when the requesting party can show that the defendent is likely to attempt to dissipate funds or move them out of the courts reach. Also on a Federal level these types of freezes are generally to prevent the sale of non-liquid assets to preserve the defendants equity and is generally outside a lower courts authority when the only remedy being sought is monetary damages.

weeble1000 wrote:
The hearing on the 23rd has been postponed until November 11th. Apparently the asset freeze was a precursor to reopening settlement negotiations.

JOINT MOTION TO RESET CITATION PROCEEDING
Plaintiff Games Workshop Limited (“GW”) and Chapterhouse Studios LLC
(“Chapterhouse”) jointly state as follows:
1. On September 17, 2014, GW filed a Citation to Discover Assets against Chapterhouse.
The Citation commanded that Chapterhouse appear in this court October 14, 2014, at
9:30 a.m.
2. On October 8, 2014, GW and Chapterhouse agreed to postpone the Citation proceeding
to Thursday, October 23.
3. The parties have since reopened settlement negotiations. In order to provide additional
time for these negotiations, GW and Chapterhouse jointly agree to reset the Citation
proceeding for November 11, 2014, at 9:30 a.m.

Well, that's certainly interesting. I don't understand how settlement negotiations had previously ceased, though, without the case moving forward in lieu of them happening (since I thought that's what this long delay we've been in was for, and the only reason appeals weren't moving forward).

Hopefully, we'll find out this week if CHS is able to get the assets unfrozen... and then I guess we'll be waiting until November 11th for further developments.

Chapterhouse's facebook page appears to be missing.

This can't be good...

Agreed, it must be recent because the link still appears on a Google search, but when clicked on just takes me to my own FB page. FB search shows no results.

I do hope it isn't the case, but I fear Nick may have caved and walked away from the appeal.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Agreed, it must be recent because the link still appears on a Google search, but when clicked on just takes me to my own FB page. FB search shows no results.

I do hope it isn't the case, but I fear Nick may have caved and walked away from the appeal.

So say for arguments sake Nick did "cave" and walk away, which I assume would be the end of CHS, at least in it's current form or incarnation.

Would that mean GW automatically wins their appeal and the items CHS initially won on would be reversed? Or would the decision made on just the items CHS was appealing remain?

It would be understandable from a personal perspective if Nick doesn't feel like going on.

I very much hope this isn't the case. If GW walks away from this a "winner" they (GW) will learn nothing from this trial.

i really hope Chapterhouse isn't dead. I really want this to reach appeals.

Hell, if it's around $23k, I'd put in for a fund raiser and help to pay for it if it meant keeping CHS alive.

It doesn't make much sense for him to walk away over a 25k judgement which is all that GW has against him. That and the quality of pro-bono counsel backing him and looking to get a decision that sets legal precedent....

 RivenSkull wrote:
i really hope Chapterhouse isn't dead. I really want this to reach appeals.

Hell, if it's around $23k, I'd put in for a fund raiser and help to pay for it if it meant keeping CHS alive.

At this point, I would too. Even just to spite GW.

Back on topic, is it at all possible that the CH Facebook page going down/being taken down would have to do with CH assets being frozen as opposed to something worse? Like the website, they can't spend money to maintain it or something stupid like that?

No, Facebook pages are free to run, and he's been able to update that since the assets were frozen.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agnosto wrote:
It doesn't make much sense for him to walk away over a 25k judgement which is all that GW has against him. That and the quality of pro-bono counsel backing him and looking to get a decision that sets legal precedent....

It makes perfect sense if he's at financial breaking point and needs to feed his family or not get evicted.

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, Facebook pages are free to run, and he's been able to update that since the assets were frozen.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agnosto wrote:
It doesn't make much sense for him to walk away over a 25k judgement which is all that GW has against him. That and the quality of pro-bono counsel backing him and looking to get a decision that sets legal precedent....

It makes perfect sense if he's at financial breaking point and needs to feed his family or not get evicted.

Not really if his sole source of income was the business and he shuts the business down. I wonder if it's possible for GW to petition FB to take his page down because what he posted put them in a negative light...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
i really hope Chapterhouse isn't dead. I really want this to reach appeals.

Hell, if it's around $23k, I'd put in for a fund raiser and help to pay for it if it meant keeping CHS alive.

At this point, I would too. Even just to spite GW.

Back on topic, is it at all possible that the CH Facebook page going down/being taken down would have to do with CH assets being frozen as opposed to something worse? Like the website, they can't spend money to maintain it or something stupid like that?

I'd kick a $100 or so in, maybe more if there was some eventual store credit of some sort offered once everything's over.

Assuming that the firms representing him isn't doing it entirely out of the goodness of their hearts, but for other reason, I wonder if they could temporarily "hire" Nick and give him an expense account (to keep him going).

It wouldn't be unlike GW to tell facebook to shut down his account, claiming he was still selling stuff through it or the like.

Is anyone able to get in contact with him any other way?

I hope he will get his assets unfrozen, then i will order stuff just to help him, thank you GW for showing me the light, no more new stuff from them!