Switch Theme:

Retro Review - Rogue Trader (take 2)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

So I started this Retro Review in 2011 but I guess stuff happened and it never got finished.

Rather than break the necro rules I figured I'd start over reprinting the original posts and then go on to new stuff.

So... on with the show.

The year was 1987, when D&D still ruled the card tables in basements across this great land of ours, when these ads started popping up in Dragon Magazine (RIP).







As Malfred once said, could it be any more black, no, it could not.

The ads were filled with these hunch-backed beetle-armored warriors fighting Space Elfs and Space Orks and it seemed fun and full of action. The only problem, the rule book cost $50.

So I passed on it.

It wouldn't be till '93 when a friend showed me the Realms of Chaos books and another showed up with his collection of all 6 Epic armies that I started getting into GW. I finally picked up Rogue Trader at a discount just as 2nd edition was coming out and I've treasured my copy ever since.

I should point out this is not REALLY the beginning for 40k, there were Citadel Journal and WD articles before 40k appeared on how to integrate sci-fi into Warhammer fantasy, and it drew on some earlier games like GW's Judge Dredd RPG, Space Farers and Laserburn.

Unfortunately I don't have access to any of those so if a friendly Dakkite could contribute a Retro Review of some of those materials I think we'd all be grateful.

But enough of that, let's look at Rogue Trader!

Let's start with the cover, and what a cover it is.



Covered in action and details and with the apparent heroes (those hunch-backed beetle-armored fellows from the Dragon Magazine ads) being cut down by enemy fire. It was a daring departure from the look and feel of any other science fiction game out there. Not only was it set far beyond any 'future' I'd ever seen before but it combined elements of medieval fantasy, 'dirty futures' like in Aliens and Lovecraftian horror. Best of all there was not a single bit of spandex to be seen.

And that's just the cover!

Wait till you see page 1!



From the first page 40k sets a tone of despair and darkness no other science fiction game had. This introduction is still used in most books but with an added paragraph about how cool Space Marines are omitting those final words 'But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed…"

I prefer the original version. I was annoyed when, towards the end of 1st Edition and then from 2nd Edition on GW added the idea of 'special characters' who survive every battle and bestride the galaxy like giants. Yeah sure I understand the idea of reoccurring heroes and villains from a marketing perspective but it makes 40k a lot like other games, we've lost that feeling of 'you will not be missed' and I think it hurts the game.

The design also deserves a lot of praise. At a time when the market leader TSR did not put any color inside the books and art was something separate from the text, GW really set a new standard with Rogue Trader. There's color pages throughout with art and minis. Even the charts are done in universe fashion with nihalistic thoughts for the day like "Death is the only answer' and the art is integrated with the text rather than peppered in randomly. The 1-2 paragraph fluff pieces are also there to set the tone even when the book is covering dry topics like turning radiuses for tanks. This is just a handsome book.



The next few pages establish the basic rules. The initial vision of 40k is muddled to say the least. It's meant to be played with a Game Master or Referee who sets up a scenario and then 2 or more players who bring forces to fight it. Point values are almost an afterthought, instead things are balanced D&D style by random charts (lots of random charts). Rather than try to create balanced forces GW instead gave everyone an even chance figuring things would equal out over time.

But even with that vastly different idea on how to play, even almost 25 years later some mechanics are remarkably the same as now.



Sure some things have been simplified. Since 3rd edition all models have the same move, since 2nd edition all the psychological stats Intelligence, Cool and Will Power have all been combined into Leadership and, as 40k became more of a war game Saves were added as a stat but all in all a player today can recognize the stat line.



Even the turn is more or less the same, we lost the psychic phase but then got it back. And the basic "I go you go' mechanics are still there for better or for worse.



The rules are a lot more complicated than anything that has come before or since, a holdover from the days of realistic war games (because nothing says realism like Space Marines fighting Orks in the Methane Swamps of Rynn's World) and chart-heavy games of the 70s and 80s.



Of course it's even funnier since many of the complex rules are not realistic, they ignore things like the fact a tank can wheel in place by moving its treads in different directions.



The vehicle damage chart is more complex than the one we have now but better than the 2nd edition (and late 1st edition) days when every vehicle had its own chart.



There's also not much restraint here. In one section they want to cover everything from tanks to bikes, to aircraft to robots. This is an ambitious rule set.



Psychic powers are the next section. In keeping with 40k RPG roots they come in 4 levels and required spending (and tracking) each model's psi points. But again, GW's superior graphic design shines through with Munch-esque images next to each one.



Another 40k staple is mutants, even though GW cut them from 40k after 3rd edition they're still very much a part of the game. As usual the art is both evocative and funny. Making this book must have been a hoot.





In this version (again keeping with the RPG-influenced design) mutations are determined by a random table, some are good, some are bad, others don't do much. Later this table would become a d1000 table in the Realms of Chaos books.



And just to clear something up, black skin was named as a mutation but as the text makes clear they mean ink-black skin, not African.



Finally the rules end with a point system. While points are central to modern 40k they were almost an after-thought in Rogue Trader. And the formula is just bizarre. You modify the stats and come up with a cost, then multiply it by a different number depending on how high it is.



Then add points for weapons and equipment.



That's about it for the rules. Although we can see the basics of the game engine here the simple fact is these rules really didn't work and didn't last too long. By the time the first supplement book (Chapter Approved) came out GW was already throwing out these point rules and moving to army lists. Within a few years they would replace the close assault and vehicle rules as well. And Space Marines would get a few extra rules because, y'know, Space Marines.



But hey, who plays 40k for the well-written rules anyway?

Join us again for Part II when we look at the early fluff of the 40k universe!



 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

I really miss the days when Space Marines were enhanced cyborg criminals serving a sentence to the Emperor..

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Still have the soft back version of this around, played it at college a fair bit, as a squad level skirmish game it actually worked pretty well. The way the points system worked actually did ok if you were aiming for small roughly equal forces - e.g. two squads of marines fighting it out in a building say.

Actually liked the old psychology rules better, the way you could have a model who was well trained and drilled in a fight, able to stand his ground, but spooked by the 'weird' works well and required a lot fewer special rules.

Stuff also died quickly, and since you could target models individually it was easy to snipe special weapons so using them took care.

I loved it.

Also liked the way the focus was on a low level, the whole "you will not be missed" part appealed, made it easy to have a small group sent to the middle of hell to fight the impossible with the worst equipment going.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/05 17:20:44


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





Pittsburgh, PA

I just shelled out for a copy of RT on eBay a few days ago, and am now waiting for it to arrive. Stuff like this is relevant to my interests. I look forward to the next part of this review. I quite enjoyed your last one.
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





I don't even KNOW anymore.

$50 for the RT book? Huh, it was commonly $30 for the hardback around 1988 in central Texas. Later (around 1991, I think), I found a softcover version bundled with a box of RT01 marines for $30 as well. You better believe I grabbed that.
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

Nice review, hitting on some of the more interesting parts of the rulebook. I never played RT, but I've got the Rulebook, Compendium and Compilation as part of my permanent collection. Really great books that are fun just to read through.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Finally the rules end with a point system. While points are central to modern 40k they were almost an after-thought in Rogue Trader. And the formula is just bizarre. You modify the stats and come up with a cost, then multiply it by a different number depending on how high it is.


I think you've misread the attribute point cost. It's not "multiply based on how large the value is", it's "This is the cost (per point) to add or remove a point from that attribute".

Edit: On second read, I misread what you wrote.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/05 19:00:47


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thanks for continuing the series

I think 1985-1991 was GW's most creative period.

Also the development of Epic and especially Codex: Titanicus was what formed the success of 40k, with its creative content getting released as 28mm models until today. It was then that the 40k universe fluffwise really exploded.

Also the loss of all the artists and writers after the management buyout really showed in 1993. 2nd Edition is imo by far the most cringeworthy (not in a good way) of the seven editions. Even Blanche was struggling. It got better again later though.

Will Rees is still amongst my favourite painters of the 40k universe. Also Ian Miller


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/05/05 20:26:40


 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Part 2
And we're back with part 2 of the award-seeking retro review series.
With the rules (such as they are) covered we can now jump into the action with the first-EVER! 40k scenario – Battle for the Farm!

Some of you may not recall it since Battle for the Farm was later renamed DEATH Battle for the BLOOD Farm of SKULLS!

It starts innocently enough, the Crimson Fists (yes, once upon a time not EVERYTHING was about the Ultramarines) are chilling in their Fortress Monastery when all of the sudden! Out of nowhere! A whole Ork fleet attacks!

So the quickly launch an ICBM at it.

But they roll a 'hit' and a 'misfire' and the ICBM explodes over the Fortress Monastery killing most of the Fists and leveling the joint. Now Pedro Kantor (yes the same one around today and the same on the cover using an Ork head as an improvised weapon) must march to New Rynn City to meet up with the few Fists who were not caught in explosion. They bed down in an abandoned farm not knowing that a group of Orks led by Thrugg Bullneck have stashed some jewels there and are headed back to claim them. A fight ensues.



This is an incredible amount of background for what boils down to Marines meet Orks, they fight. But it's the first real taste of 40k fluff (other than the grimdark opening) and it works. It's got some black humor (marines blowing up their own fortress), despair (marine chapter reduced to a handful of men) and cruelty (the Orks had already slaughtered the humans in the farm and burned it to the ground). And surprisingly GW has kept all of this the official 40k fluff even after many RT elements like Squats, the Ultramarines being a 3rd founding chapter and Custodus being normal humans were dropped.



The book even came with counters so you could play this scenario right away.



Last year GW scaled it up to a 500 page novel which, to be frank, was pants. It didn't even include the Battle for the Farm (though it did have a battle for a farm)! It kept the basic backdrop but the marine were just as wooden and cookie cutter as in other novels, their tactics made no sense and the book ends with Pedro and the Ork Warboss (Snagrod the Arch-Arsonist) in a fist fight. Because that's how all interstellar wars should be settled, with a fist fight.


But hey, it's still a 500 page novel, not bad for a 4 page into scenario huh?



Now there's always one part of an gaming book that I find will make or break it, that will determine whether or not the game will last and whether or not it's worth playing. I refer of course to the weapons and equipment.

Cause let's face it, unless I'm doing something illegal, immoral and impossible, why am I bothering to play this game?

And here Rogue Trader delivers the goods!

We get 28 pages of the finest deathware the 41st millennium has – from flintlocks to plasma cannons - all lavishly illustrated with fluff for each one.



Each picture has a little 'thought for the day' on the bottom like 'Death is its own reward', 'No reward, no remorse, just kill' and of course 'Fear is the mind killer'. Heh, 'fear is the mind killer', that's awesome, where do they get their ideas?



And those are just snuck in! Other quotes get more of a spot light.



Exist for the Emperor! Highest Kil ratio: Warzonz 6 & 12! Defile the Mutant! Death!
Why can't modern armory pages look like this?



Oh did I mention how half the art in the book is Space Marines dying painfully? Well it is! Even then the real measure of any weapon was how well it killed Marines.



Here's a marine being gutshot by an ork!



But here is a marine making all of his 4+ (yes 4+) saves against 3 orks.



Despite the 'mere' 4+ save (which you could raise to 3+ by wearing flak armor over it) power armor was still the best in the game since it not only offered the best save (terminator armor wouldn't appear for a while longer) it also included life support for all the nasty gas and virus weapons in the game. There's toxic, radiation, virus and vortex grenades, all of which can be scaled up to off-board artillery.



The 40k battle ground is a nasty, nasty place with many, many ways to die.



And it's a place of dark despair and madness!



The whole book has full page illustrations scattered throughout just showing off the style and look of 40k. Even at this early date they have a lot of the retro future elements we still see, note all the hoses, the dial on the chair, even the spacesuit is torn at the left arm, if he loses pressure this guy is in real trouble even with his oversized collar and helmet.



Get ahead with the Imperial Guard! Ahead… a head… well darn it it's funny to me!



And right here the Space Marines won my heart! Gawd I love this picture!



So cool! I hope the make like, A MILLION books just about Space Marines!



And here we meet the legendary Scotti the Enginseer which, besides setting the tone for how technology works in the 41st Millennium, also manages to include two of the worst puns in GW history.

Enginseer! How did that get past the editors? I bet they won't be using that pun 25 years later!



Weapons are followed by vehicles and as you can see from well what the heck that is, the 40k look was already being established. WWI, WWII designs, rivets and comically oversized guns.



It would be a little while before the first vehicle kits appeared (Land Raider, Rhino and Ork Battlewagon) so there are a few scratch builds thrown in like this SM ornithopter.





There's also an early Land Raider scratch build.



And an early Imperial Guard Land Speeder.

That about wraps up this section, again the rules look ghastly but the art and design is a cut above anything that was out at the time and even holds up today.

Next time we'll finally hit the fluff sections beginning with the Age of the Imperium. Be there! Whenever I get around to it...

 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Last year? Rynn's World was released back in 2010..



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 BrookM wrote:
Last year? Rynn's World was released back in 2010..


yeah and I originally posted this in 2011...


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
Last year? Rynn's World was released back in 2010..


yeah and I originally posted this in 2011...

Okay, my bad, but you may want to edit that then?



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I still like the typo on the armory page - the Marco Cannon.

Makes me wonder who was going to turn up with a Polo Shield to defend themselves from it...

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




And to this day a Defence laser is a Defence laser... no idea what this volcano cannon rubbish is.

Demolisher cannon = sawn off macro cannon...

Spent far more time reading that book than playing the game, but the way the book was, the look and the feel of it, the evocative atmosphere is why we are still here today and many others, with technically better rules but less flavour and more bland have fallen away.

And for all its complexities 1st edition, on its own, managed without hordes of contradictory special rules, various weapons with different names but when you got down to it identical profiles etc, a good few WTF moments, and a local agreement never to throw more than a couple of grenades at once and it worked.

Hell re-issue it today, use this as the small scale skirmish game version of 40k now (because if you try anything other than a small skirmish you find out why they streamlined it), just tidy a few bits up and if they must change some of the names, but use the same artwork, the same layout, the same fluff, the same breakout panels with daft mottos, the same jokes about the planet Birmingham etc

Not to mention Battle at the Farm would be a wonderful starter set

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/06 19:31:28


 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

This makes me want to collect a load of RT marines and Orks and then play Battle for the Farm... and listen to a load of John Martyn (which oddly I was really in to at the time when RT was about.. and now I associate with RT everytime I hear the music)

 BrookM wrote:
Last year? Rynn's World was released back in 2010..


The date comment still doesn't detract from the bit about the book being .. rather dull though (which is the nicest thing I can say about it).
You can't really blame the author, the writers of the modern BL stuff are pretty much put in a straight-jacket in terms of what they can write about and everything has already been done by 10 previous authors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/06 22:05:04


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Now there's always one part of an gaming book that I find will make or break it, that will determine whether or not the game will last and whether or not it's worth playing. I refer of course to the weapons and equipment.

Cause let's face it, unless I'm doing something illegal, immoral and impossible, why am I bothering to play this game?


I hear those 40K RPG books have great equipment sections.

(/bias)





Keep it coming Kyoto. This stuff's great!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


I hear those 40K RPG books have great equipment sections.

(/bias)





Keep it coming Kyoto. This stuff's great!


They do! Mad props to whomever came up with this listing:

Typically a gripped cylinder with a reservoir or staining liquid, the device has also been manufactured successfully on primitive worlds such as Iocanthos using soft breaking metal or fissionable residue encased in a strain resistant substance, usually milled on site. When a staining liquid is used, it can be manufactured from a variety of substances found throughout the Calixis Sector including, but not limited to, flora/fauna compression, animal excretion harvesting, or synthetic means. This source can often affect the hue of the staining liquid.

 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Part 3

And we're back! So this time we're going to enter the AGE OF THE IMPERIUM!

A time of Grim Darknessâ„¢ where there is only war.

And skull codpeices of course. But that only comes naturally from war. So anyway…



Wow that is a lot of Space Marines. It looks like… there's like a THOUSAND of them! And look at that cool fortress/tower/skull thing. I'd love for someone to make that as a diorama.

This chapter starts off with background, lots of background. Far, far more than this game could possibly need. After all we have Space Marines, Space Orks, Space Elfs and other concepts that really need no introduction. But GW really works to create a coherent universe with its own physics, history and politics.

3 pages are spent explaining what the warp is, how interstellar travel works and the role of Navigators. This has nothing to do with the game being published. Nothing. It sort of, kind of, came up in Space Fleet a few years later, Battlefleet Gothic 11 years later or the Rogue Trader RPG TWENTY YEARS LATER!

And that's awesome.

I remember reading that at one point 40k was going to be a space combat game but evolved in the course of the writing into a sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy (anyone else heard that, or have a cite?), so they might have had this fluff lying around already. And yeah, it's largely stolen from Frank Herbert's monumental Dune series (seriously read it. If you've not read it at least read the first book, it's like playing Fantasy without having read Lord of the Rings). But hey it's this attention to detail and imagination ( imaginative swiping at least) that creates an engaging universe that keeps us coming back.

No matter how bad the rules may be.

GW lavishes attention on the Imperium early on establishing the immortal Emperor and the bureaucracy under him.



Bureaucracy? They seriously give us a couple of pages on the bureaucracy?
Yep. Cause it's the MOST AWESOME BUREAUCRACY EVAH!



Seriously if I could wear that to the office I'd… Well do I really want to see my coworkers with no shirt and tight leather pants? But it would be kind of cool, I dunno, for a week or so.

And hey, I'd get this guy as a boss!



Rogue Trader was the first and perhaps last time we had rules for Adeptus Administratum clerks. They have a 50% chance of having a gun!

(By the way, there's an unreleased clerk figure currently available from Wargames Foundry if anyone's interested)

We also get a breakdown of what the two-headed eagle represents and what color everyone's robes should be.



Again, all this background for a game where Space Marines shoot at Space Dwarfs in Space.

Damn.

As you might expect the combat-relevant guys like the Adeptus Custodes (then just normal humans whose pike as actually CONCEALED LASGUNS! FEAR THE LASGUN!), Mechanicus, Arbites, Astropaths all get attention. But it goes even farther and stops to talk about the Administratum, planetary governors, the High Lords and all the other bits and pieces needed to make a coherent fictional empire.

One group that gets a lot of focus in this book (and throughout later editions and even 2 games of their own) is of course the Inquisition!



In fact the big =I= gets one of the first named characters – the mighty Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, a tireless exposer of psychic misdeeds and genetic deviance. While Pedro Kanto from Battle at the Farm went on to a long career with his own rules and model and a novel poor Obiwan has languished in obscurity since 1987. Almost makes you want to write some fanfic for him.

Almost.



If anyone cares to make a model for him here's his stats and fluff, and the first appearance of the iconic big =I=.

There's another fun bit of art that in one little illustration shows how Grimdark the Imperium is with a guardsman lead by a chain on his neck begging before some sort of guy in impractical power armor.



There's a story there, a good one, much more interesting than a bunch of angry bald men shooting stuff.

The Adeptus Mech gets one of my favorite bits of art from this book, one that GW still uses!



And another one that just sums up the insanity of how technology works in 40k, a bunch of guys in lab coats swinging censors of incense around.



It also talks about a great concept, technomats. Rather than waste years teaching someone how to drive a rhino, or operate a Space VCR, the Adeptus Mechanicus just burns the information into your brain. It drives you mad over time, but hey, there's more where you came from.

Astropaths get some attention, in case you're wondering there's a 90% chance they carry d6 doses of web solvent.



Again, great art. Not as polished as we get now but lots of atmosphere.
I mean look at this puppy!



It's a Grimdark Janitor for the Adeptus Terra and the Grimdark forklift with the guy wired into it is loading a coffin with a screaming psyker in it!

Awesome!

GW please, please, please, next time you commission art for a book, ask the artist to come up with another Grimdark janitor, or bus, or market. We know what angry bald men shooting stuff looks like, stretch that imagination a bit!

Speaking of Angry Bald Man, join us next time when we look at the Marines of Space and some other minor races that really never went anywhere significant.


 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Just in case I haven't mentioned it - I am loving these Retro-Reviews!

And, agreed, the old art may not have had the polish, but did a much better job of conveying the setting.

In Battlefleet Gothic there was a loverly illo of slaves walking on the cogs used to elevate the guns - the motors having long ago stopped functioning.... The Grimdark used to be grimmer and darker....

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Brilliant review once more

Interesting factoid, the pic above was actually used as the backdrop for the big hammer on the cover of the 4th edition rulebook, if you look closely

Spoiler:

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in ie
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!




Kildare, Ireland

Im so glad this is the edition I still play... Never saw the need to move on.


 Strombones wrote:
Battlegroup - Because its tits.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Well, since this has been posted in it's fair game to comment on I suppose.

Love your reviews as always, you planning on doing any more in the recent future?
Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/09 07:56:45


My mostly terrain and Sons of Orar blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568699.page#6349942
 whalemusic360 wrote:
Alph, I expect like 90 sets of orange/blue from you.
 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Thanks everyone for the kind words, I'll be back with more RT stuff later this week.

As for what's next, TIME ALLOWING! the RT-era Compendium (the red book) would make sense.

But I might do an WD instead, I've been buying old Space Fleet models so I took out WD139, the big Space Fleet issue.

So yes I want to do more of these, as time allows.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/09 09:19:45


 
   
Made in ie
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!




Kildare, Ireland

I have the original journals with the 'Sci-Fi' mods for Warhammer at home if you want a copy.

Amazons armed with Bolt Pistols fighting Slann warriors... Those were the days.

 Strombones wrote:
Battlegroup - Because its tits.
 
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

It's really interesting to read about the old days and your presentation is great; looking forward to more of this.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Part 4

& we are back with the first new content on this review since 2011!

& I am totally 100% sure it will be worth the wait!

When we last checked in on Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader we'd covered such vital and often seen characters as Navigators, scribes and Totally Not Judge Dredd. All of whom are as important to the game today as they were 25 years ago.

So what could possibly be left to cover?

Oh just some little guys they like to call...



Space Marines!

They're like Marines! But in Space! Kind of the like the Spelunking Frogmen and the Ground Paratroopers!



And, despite getting their butts kicked on the cover, they are totally badass!



One of the fascinating things about this book is how many concepts were already fully formed and how many ideas have endured. Not just rules but things like the chapter badges.



With one exception I'd expect everyone in your local GW shop to know all of these.

The one exception?
Spoiler:



Can't win them all...

Even GW's most shameless pun was in place on day one.
Spoiler:

Ultramarines, they're like super marines, and they are blue!


It's also interesting what was not yet ready. Here's a partial list of words that do not appear in the section on Space Marines:

Rhino
Hamster
Whirlwind
Captain America wearing Iron Man's Armor with Wolverine's Claws and Thor's Hammer only cooler!
Terminator
Pink ponies
Black Templars
Beat you up and take your lunch money FOR THE EMPEROR!
Librarian
Accountant
Toughness 4
Cool 10
Horus Heresy
Deloris Debauchery
Primarch
Secondarch
First Founding
Gun that shoots explosions!
Chaos
With every part of their body, even their pee-pees
Traitor Legions
Spikey bitz
Scouts

All of those would follow in time and were in place by the time 2nd edition rolled around but none are to be found here.

Though there were a few things introduced here and never followed up on, like oh this line...

"Individual Chapter Commanders are free to organize or augment their regular troops in any way they see fit, and a variety of musical instruments may be brought into the fray"


Just imagine the conversion possibilities.

Other marine specialists like Communications Personnel and Field Police are mentioned in passing as well.

But one every important element was there from the very start. The idea that there are 1000 chapters, each with their own heraldry.





I really believe it was this two-page spread that made 40k a hit. GW understood that fundamentally players don't want to slavishly reproduce someone else's ideas, we want to create our own.



And 40k from day one made it clear you could take this basic template and run with it.



Equipment as with others was random. Even marines had only a 95% of getting a bolter, and 5% chance of getting stuck with a lasgun or autogun. Every squad had a transport vehicle, but that was random as well, 25% hoverer, 50% tracked, 25% walker.

The Imperial Army (not yet Guard) came next.



And right away the tone is set.

"Warriors are nowhere near as tough or ruthless as the battle-brothers of the Legiones Astartes, nor as they as insanely dedicated as the Adeptus Arbites..."


And they're not nearly as well-equipped as the Skittari, nor are they as tough and stubborn as Squat Guilds, and they lack the rock-solid faith of the Sisters of Battle, they're also not as sly as the Ratling Snipers, nor are they even close to a match for Ogryn shock troops, and they don't get the cool hats Inquisitors do...

In fact why are you even playing them? Are you just a masochist? Do you like to suffer? Do you have a deep rooted inferiority complex that prevents you from playing the cool army? Come on, buy a box of marines, I know you want to...



Flak armor... lasguns... (but with a 5% chance of getting a bolter), yep.

Rogue Traders also get some rules and classy Jes Goodwin art.



Which is nice since, well, the game is named after them.



Assassins, Beastmen, Halflings Ogryn and Squats round out the chapter.

Join us next time when we will meet some of the interesting (and 100% original!) aliens of the 41st Millennium!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/12 07:41:12


 
   
Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





Poor Rainbow Warriors In truth their official color scheme wasn't that bad, way worse offenders would surface over the years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 23:31:01


Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Who was it in the one Ian Watson short, was it the Grief Bringer? (purple armour with pea green trim?)

Brilliant new review, thoroughly enjoyed reading it!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in gb
Major




London

Good reviews. I find myself playing RT more than modern 40K nowadays. Purist "just the book" RT too, none of the add ons. It has more depth and game hooks to it.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Part 5

& we're back, this time with the 100% original alien races of Rogue Trader, including the Space Elfs, the Space Orks and the dreaded Space Frogs.



All snark aside it was a brilliant move for any number of reasons. I remember reading once GW's original reason for making space versions of their fantasy races was simple economics. They figured by releasing a sprue or two science fiction weapons people could make whole new armies out of GW's existing inventory. As we all know it didn't turn out that way, GW made original models for all the factions, but it was still a great idea. Space Elfs is an idea that needs no explanation, unlike say the Minbari or the Taelons (both of whom could be described as Elfs in space). It gives potential players an instant frame of reference to start from, even if the Eldar, over time, evolved their own unique mythology. Often they were tied to a historical culture which also gave the major alien races an easy naming regime (Eldar Craftworlds for example are named after Celtic feasts) rather than the usual typewriter hash of the Qgae'tAGag warriors from the planet BAHYR'evfayrtg.

Yes.

I'm looking at you Klingons.

So the Eldar...



Closely resemble humanity, taller, pale, can even interbreed and may share a common ancestor. Even in the Rogue Trader book it's established they don't live on planets but in great craft-worlds 'tens of miles across and usually circular in shape'. Well that part didn't last... These days Craft Worlds are lot closer to being literally true.



Even the warp gates of what would later become the webway are established from the start. Typically they are encountered in human space as traders, adventurers, mercenaries or pirates.



Even then Shuriken weapons were their trademark, eldar are 60% likely to have a shuriken catapult and their vehicles are 75% likely to be skimmers.



Next up is another idea that needs no introduction, Orks.

People say on their first meeting a Man and an Ork exchanged a long, hard look, didn't care much for what they saw, shot each other dead.


(At least that's the quote I remember from an old ad)



After that the ideas come fast and furious. The Slann (ancient space frogs with a meso American bent) get 2 and a half pages, Jokaero get 2 (mostly covering their ability to dismantle and reassemble captured equipment) and some jokers called the 'Tyranids' get another 2.



Again, even here the basics were down. Space locusts they come down and eat your planets. Entirely organic technology, grown not built. Like everyone else they had no specific weapons of their own, just bolters, lasguns etc that happened to look different.



Genestealers pop up as well but as their own faction unrelated to Tyranids. That link wouldn't happen until the Space Crusade game (of all places!) a few years later.

Daemons and Chaos, interestingly do not appear. But there is a listing for Warp Creatures.



These Astral Spectres for example have no physical bodies but over the course of days can drain someone of will power until they are possessed. They're meant to be run by the Game Master,again showing no one was quite sure if Rogue Trader was a wargame or RPG or what.



Enslavers, another nearly forgotten faction, are an intriguing example of non-humanoid non-animal aliens with more than a little Lovecraftian horror. They pop up, mind control people and seek out psykers. Over the course of 50-75 hours they drain the psyker until he explodes into a circular gate make of flesh, which allows more Enslavers to enter.

Other warp creatures like Vampires (giant bat men who drain people into zombies), psychneuein (warp wasps who lay eggs in your brain) and random Warp Enties (basically proto daemons) also show up. Again this is a very ambitious game! It wouldn't be till 10 years later that GW would even try to develop a faction not covered in Rogue Trader.



Various alien monsters follow, including not-Umber Hulks, Catachan Devils and Catachan Face-Eaters and not-Dinosaurs. The focus, as with early D&D books seems to be on creating monsters that are easily repped on the table with dime-store dinosaurs and other toys.

This section also has some great color art.



Like this one. It's got an Eldar trader, a Rogue Trader, a servitor, a tech priest, and soldier and a squat just chilling out. I really love the lack of science fiction cliches here. No spandex, nothing streamlined, everything is a riot of color and styles. Some of the Oldhammer community have started trying to model each of these figures, I might have to take a crack too.



And again, a reminder that the 40k universe is big, and you don't just have to paint your marines blue.



And finally John Blanche reminds us that the Imperium is not just dark, but alien and borderline insane. It's touches like this that really sell the game and the universe.

We're almost done, join me next time for the Advanced Gamer and some closing thoughts.

 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: