Dust Tactics Legal action from Dust studios against Battlefront?

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**plastictrees**

No, that's just squabbling between short sighted idiots.

What it boils down to is that the KS either over promised and undelivered or was a last ditch effort to make this a financially viable relationship and now no one, so far, is willing to go out of pocket for the backers.

**cincydooley**

I'm glad I didn't back it. I've never been a huge fan of Battlefront. So little, in fact, that I sold or gave away all of my Dust stuff after I found out they were getting distro from FFG.

**CaulynDarr**

mikhaila wrote:

Pretty much spot on. A lot of the "debt" is caused from BF taking a huge inventory of stock from DS so they could distribute product. This is different from a store or warehouse buying product to sell. BF needs to stock far more than a normal warehouse, since they are the ones supplying those warehouses. One of the MUTUAL goals of the KS was that it would make both companies money and let BF pay some of this down. And Dust was selling slower for them, because of the undisclosed deals with FFG. So the whole "debt" issue is a red herring. It's not the issue.

The main issue has always been "Dust picks half the freebies, BF picks half the freebies". BF and Paolo were on the same page that they split those costs. Later, Paolo's partner who owns the warehouse wants to change the deal. He wants a couple of things:

1.BF pays for all of the costs of the free items in the KS. (His contention is that what Paolo agreed to doesn't matter, he never agreed to this.)
2. He wants normal terms on these. Meaning, not only does he want to BF to pay his costs to produce them, he also wants to make a profit off of selling the freebie items to BF.

Everything boils down to this.

I wonder if Yau failed to get kickstarter at the conceptual level. Freebie stretch goals and the delay between collecting funds and getting orders from the pledge manager are staples of the platform. Yet he has been pretty entrench in not eating losses on the loss leaders, and upset about the time it took to get an itemized list for production.

Maybe he saw it as a glorified pre-order system like a lot of backers mistakenly do. The suffered a bit of buyers remorse when he found the exact details of what he agreed to.

**weeble1000**

CaulynDarr wrote:
mikhaila wrote:

Pretty much spot on. A lot of the "debt" is caused from BF taking a huge inventory of stock from DS so they could distribute product. This is different from a store or warehouse buying product to sell. BF needs to stock far more than a normal warehouse, since they are the ones supplying those warehouses. One of the MUTUAL goals of the KS was that it would make both companies money and let BF pay some of this down. And Dust was selling slower for them, because of the undisclosed deals with FFG. So the whole "debt" issue is a red herring. It's not the issue.

The main issue has always been "Dust picks half the freebies, BF picks half the freebies". BF and Paolo were on the same page that they split those costs. Later, Paolo's partner who owns the warehouse wants to change the deal. He wants a couple of things:

1.BF pays for all of the costs of the free items in the KS. (His contention is that what Paolo agreed to doesn't matter, he never agreed to this.)
2. He wants normal terms on these. Meaning, not only does he want to BF to pay his costs to produce them, he also wants to make a profit off of selling the freebie items to BF.

Everything boils down to this.

I wonder if Yau failed to get kickstarter at the conceptual level. Freebie stretch goals and the delay between collecting funds and getting orders from the pledge manager are staples of the platform. Yet he has been pretty entrench in not eating losses on the loss leaders, and upset about the time it took to get an itemized list for production.

Maybe he saw it as a glorified pre-order system like a lot of backers mistakenly do. The suffered a bit of buyers remorse when he found the exact details of what he agreed to.

It's pretty darn simple. Yau wants more money. Who knows why. That doesn't really matter. It is likely that the KS didn't do as well as expected, and that this added fuel to a smoldering fire.

Yau doesn't want to lose more money producing freebies. He figures that the verbal/written agreements between Paolo and BF don't count, which gives him a basis to argue for the payment.

BF, for whatever reason all its own, doesn't want to pay for something DS agreed to pay for. It might be ego, it might be a bottom line thing, it might be bad blood over the FFG thing. Doesn't matter.

Yao wants to be paid for freebies. BF doesn't want to pay for the freebies. Beyond that you are picking at the scabs of wounds that tainted this relationship from the get go.

Whichever party eats the (substantial) loss and makes good to backers out of their own pocket will preserve the better part of their company's goodwill.

**Ghrik**

Just received this email from DS. Perhaps both parties start behaving like grownups again...

Dear Backer,

We received an email from Battlefront yesterday: they said they would check the production list and issue a purchase order Monday.

Dust Studio will provide Battlefront with a packing list and an invoice by next week. The items are ready and will be shipped to you within one week upon reception of the payment and shipping instructions.

Dust Studio will give Battlefront one week from the invoice date to make the full payment.

We are confident that we are really near to end this struggle at this time and cannot wait to finally deliver the goods to you, our deserving backers.

You should expect the next update as soon as we receive the full payment - we will make sure to keep you informed with the latest developments on a regular basis.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Sincerely,
Dust Studio Team

**fox40**

Well Monday's over (at least in China and New Zealand) yet no sign of an update from either side.

**xraytango**

I knew that their leaving FFG was a bad idea.

You might say I had a bad feeling about that...

**warboss**

xraytango wrote:
I knew that their leaving FFG was a bad idea.

You might say I had a bad feeling about that...

Careful now...if you carelessly throw around that phrase, innocent people lose hands!

**Shotgun**

Ghrik wrote:
Just received this email from DS. Perhaps both parties start behaving like grownups again...

Dear Backer,

We received an email from Battlefront yesterday: they said they would check the production list and issue a purchase order Monday.

Dust Studio will provide Battlefront with a packing list and an invoice by next week. The items are ready and will be shipped to you within one week upon reception of the payment and shipping instructions.

Dust Studio will give Battlefront one week from the invoice date to make the full payment.

We are confident that we are really near to end this struggle at this time and cannot wait to finally deliver the goods to you, our deserving backers.

You should expect the next update as soon as we receive the full payment - we will make sure to keep you informed with the latest developments on a regular basis.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Sincerely,
Dust Studio Team

Assuming the saga continues given no updates from anyone?

**Krinsath**

Possibly; BF is moving offices this week, so I'm sure there's a bit of organized chaos just in that. You'd have thought if they had heard nothing that Dust would have raised an outcry, but given the circumstances they either got paid and don't feel the need to mention it or have accepted that moving is a delay that will be allowed to be sure both parties agree on everything given the checkered history on that point to date.

I don't know that the issue of the freebies has actually been settled though; has anyone heard either way what's going on there?

**Krinsath**

Positive news on this front I suppose. It took way too long to get here though.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/posts/1246592

The owner of Dust Studio, William Yau, and the owners of Battlefront have reached an agreement to pay for the ‘Wave 2’ products next week. Shipment will take place shortly after that - the factory just need a few days to organise the logistics of packing the product and getting it on to a ship. We’ll update you with more shipping information once we have it.

There are going to be minor shortfalls for some products - both from ‘Wave 1’ and ‘Wave 2’, owing mostly to problems with completing the pledge manager process for some orders. So we have also both agreed to a third ‘resupply’ order, so there will be enough stock to fill any remaining gaps and make sure no backer is left short.

Still plenty of time for things go awry again, but it seems like perhaps the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train after all?

**BobtheInquisitor**

I really, really want to see what's scrawled onto the memo line of the cheque.

**455_PWR**

Most stores were selling off dust stuff with heavy discounts like they didn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole! I was ready to dump my stuff too. Glad they are coming around, I look forwardto getting my stuff. This may have saved dust for me and my group in central wisconsin!

**privateer4hire**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I really, really want to see what's scrawled onto the memo line of the cheque.

I'm more curious whose checkbook was used (BF, DS or both?).

**Theophony**

privateer4hire wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I really, really want to see what's scrawled onto the memo line of the cheque.

I'm more curious whose checkbook was used (BF, DS or both?).

Maybe Dust Studios made Paolo pay for it since he supposedly kept saying sure to the freebies

**privateer4hire**

Warstore is having a sale that includes Dust stuff, too:
http://www.thewarstore.com/DustSale.html

**Guildsman**

Browsing through the Warstore's Dust catalog is disheartening. Most kits are either out of stock or TBA preorders, and everything else seems to be on the big sale. If they're dropping the line, that's a really bad sign for the game's future.

**warboss**

There also is a disclaimer that the sale ended back in April on the top of the page. I'm not sure if they forgot to update that disclaimer or update the prices.

**Theophony**

"This is great news!"

now everyone will order only through battlefront, which means more profit for them.........

Yeah sorry I can't even begin to think how this will continue. Seems like another nail is being driven home in that coffin shaped shipping container labeled DUST.

Ashes to ashes DUST to the clearance bins.

**Sinful Hero**

So... What was the name of the set with the terrain in it? Is it included in the sale?

**privateer4hire**

warboss wrote:
There also is a disclaimer that the sale ended back in April on the top of the page. I'm not sure if they forgot to update that disclaimer or update the prices.

The Dust stuff is part of their link from their front page's Summer Sale announcement.
Perhaps they never updated the individual Dust page about the April thing?
Oh, well.

**Guildsman**

Theophony wrote:
"This is great news!" now everyone will order only through battlefront, which means more profit for them.........

Yeah sorry I can't even begin to think how this will continue. Seems like another nail is being driven home in that coffin shaped shipping container labeled DUST.

Ashes to ashes DUST to the clearance bins.

Seriously. Losing one of the top U.S. webstores (assuming that's what's happening) is bad news, and pretty much kills any chance of the game going/staying mainstream.

**em_en_oh_pee**

Guildsman wrote:
Theophony wrote:
"This is great news!" now everyone will order only through battlefront, which means more profit for them.........

Yeah sorry I can't even begin to think how this will continue. Seems like another nail is being driven home in that coffin shaped shipping container labeled DUST.

Ashes to ashes DUST to the clearance bins.

Seriously. Losing one of the top U.S. webstores (assuming that's what's happening) is bad news, and pretty much kills any chance of the game going/staying mainstream.

War Store and Miniature Market down. Ouch.

**carboncopy**

The Warstore DUST sale is Battlefront stock and has been on sale since April. If you look at other items, such as the FFG stock, it's normal discount. I have heard that stores were receiving Battlefront DUST items at a heavy discount and are passing along the savings. What I gather from this is that Battlefront is liquidating their remaining stock due to the end of their relationship with Dust Studios.

Miniature Market is probably having AT-43 flashbacks (they still have stock on clearance, lots of apes) and bailing so they don't get caught with a bunch of stock again. Once/if things turn back to normal I'm sure they will buy in again.

**Duncan_Idaho**

As I said before, Dust will survive, but get back at a way lower pace.

**Eilif**

Sinful Hero wrote:
So... What was the name of the set with the terrain in it? Is it included in the sale?

The kits with structures are:
-Airfiled Quonset Hut accessory pack (6 Quonset huts)
-Warzone Tenement (a 2 story building)
-Operation Cerberus (3 story building, 2 figures, scenario stuff, etc)

There might also be an operations box with some Quonset huts in it, but I don't recall. I don't know which sales they are or aren't a part of. I bought a whole bunch of Tenements last year at the FFG christmas sale which had 75% off on many items. I'm hoping for another such sale this year.

**endtransmission**

No, the quonsets were only ever in the accessory box

**warboss**

There was a quonset containing campaign pack but it came with 2-3 only and the rest were cardstock. Unlike the building containing campaign box, it was a better deal to just get the model only kit instead if you were only buying it for terrain. I was looking at it during the 50-75% off sale a few weeks back at miniature market.

**endtransmission**

Oh, I forgot about Icarus!

**privateer4hire**

Possible news?:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/posts/1253913