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 CptJake wrote:
They said no 3D RV.

To eBay!

Mat confirmed as 52x52cm (20.5") then, not very neatly compatible with Mars Attacks et al, and for a even for tabletop skirmish unusually small.

The new add on is definitely a wave 2 item so MOAR POSTAGE!!! I've got an EB on this, but really not expecting to keep it to the end.

It's not going to hit a million. They were way too tight with the initial offering which in no way was worth $125 plus shipping. Obviously they expected it to blow up and go gangbusters so it would later be worth $125, but feth pledging for a KS that only becomes worth it's asking price halfway through or towards the end of the campaign.

I mean, it doesn't need to be Bones 1 or even KoW1, but you know, if you're asking money upfront with this kind of lead time, you'd expect it to be value for money from the point you ask people to plonk down their cash.

It might hit a million...


...if you include the shipping costs.

This has been Mantic's style as of late. High initial funding, measly stretches with huge gaps at first, and then people start dropping so they start piling on the bonuses.

Why not just have them there from the beginning?

I don't get it.

At least with every CMON campaign, you have a pretty decent value from the very beginning and you know it's only going to get better from there.

I don't think I've seen a really good Manitc "sweet spot" pledge from the very beginning since the original Deadzone campaign.

Well, at risk of repeating myself ad nauseum, they obviously put a lot more stock in the TWD comic licence then they should have...

I think Mantic puts a lot more stock in *themselves* than they should have...!

One guy just asked in the comments if they have given up on Mars Attacks, specifically the terrain. Mantic replied "No, but it does expire this year. The scenery is part of our Battlezones range rather than Mars Attacks and that will be staying." So I wonder if TWD will be the next brand they make and then decide not to pay the license fee later on.

 Theophony wrote:
One guy just asked in the comments if they have given up on Mars Attacks, specifically the terrain. Mantic replied "No, but it does expire this year. The scenery is part of our Battlezones range rather than Mars Attacks and that will be staying." So I wonder if TWD will be the next brand they make and then decide not to pay the license fee later on.

Exactly.

Release and run.

No support for a significant part of their range, where is the MA, DBX and DB support? There are no continual 'presence' of these games after release, no mantic game/battle reports, no excitement, no follow through just KS after KS with little or no support afterwards.

Even KoW which is growing significantly, where is the mantic content? Its all player content that is dominating the media.

Walking dead will be another dump and run

Well if a licenced line does well the licencor often asks for a bucket more money when renewal time rolls round again

and if it does badly why would you as a company bother to renew even if they offer the same terms as last time

the eternal issue with licenced properties

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
One guy just asked in the comments if they have given up on Mars Attacks, specifically the terrain. Mantic replied "No, but it does expire this year. The scenery is part of our Battlezones range rather than Mars Attacks and that will be staying." So I wonder if TWD will be the next brand they make and then decide not to pay the license fee later on.

Exactly.

Release and run.

No support for a significant part of their range, where is the MA, DBX and DB support? There are no continual 'presence' of these games after release, no mantic game/battle reports, no excitement, no follow through just KS after KS with little or no support afterwards.

Even KoW which is growing significantly, where is the mantic content? Its all player content that is dominating the media.

Walking dead will be another dump and run

Thats my biggest issue with mantic. They spread themselves mega thin and try to do too much at once. Warpath was bare bones for years, KOW had (Not sure if its changed) a load of units missing from the offical ranges for a long time. They seem to struggle with post game support due to always hunting the next kickstarter.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a change in miniature kickstarters now where people just want stretch goals to be, well, what it's going to cost them...

For example, I know the Dropfleet Commander guys have a pretty close relationship with Mantic, yet when they launched their kickstarter, it was pretty darn close to, "this is what it's going to cost us."

And that ended up being pretty darn popular and going quite successfully and I'm certain that Hawk will end up not having overstretched themselves (or p*ed off retailers either...)

 carlos13th wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
One guy just asked in the comments if they have given up on Mars Attacks, specifically the terrain. Mantic replied "No, but it does expire this year. The scenery is part of our Battlezones range rather than Mars Attacks and that will be staying." So I wonder if TWD will be the next brand they make and then decide not to pay the license fee later on.

Exactly.

Release and run.

No support for a significant part of their range, where is the MA, DBX and DB support? There are no continual 'presence' of these games after release, no mantic game/battle reports, no excitement, no follow through just KS after KS with little or no support afterwards.

Even KoW which is growing significantly, where is the mantic content? Its all player content that is dominating the media.

Walking dead will be another dump and run

Thats my biggest issue with mantic. They spread themselves mega thin and try to do too much at once. Warpath was bare bones for years, KOW had (Not sure if its changed) a load of units missing from the offical ranges for a long time. They seem to struggle with post game support due to always hunting the next kickstarter.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Mantic to focus on their own, incomplete products rather than produce a license that likely won't receive further support down the road? The MA kickstarter brought in $558k. If this does the same or less, what chance that they'll treat it the same and basically forget it exists post-kickstarter?

I dont know about Mars Attacks, but I do know that Ronnie (mantic chief) is a noted fan of the walking dead comics so imagine on that strength alone there is a good future for things in this KS.

Mantic has two real games, KoW and DBO. Everything else lately has been "just give us money because you're used to giving us money, no effort on our side required".

To me, it's understandable that a mass warfare game (especially one with more than 4 races/factions) would take a large amount of time to develop, both in terms of rule sets and not having models for every unit choice you can take. Games Workshop struggled for many years with filling out the roster for each of the races, and I gather still somewhat fails to do so.

I think this is okay, as long as the rules are complete as sold, and that the system continues to be supported. If you decide to collect a Sci-Fi army, it's helpful to know that the £100 block of troops you've bought aren't going to be rendered irrelevant by a rules change next year, and that entire system isn't going to be abandoned after two years!

True boardgames are a different kettle of fish. I'd argue that it's fine to essentially release these as a one and done - they are complete in and of themselves, then can have additional expansions if required, but nothing is broken when expansions stop.

It gets strange when you get into boardgame-tabletop hybrids though, especially ones that encourage sustained league play. I'd argue that Mars Attacks, Dungeon Saga, Mars Attacks, Dreadball, X-Wing, Imperial Assault, Super Dungeon Explore, Ninja All Stars, Blood Bowl, Necromunda etc. all fall into this.

You are expected to spend a lot of time preparing and painting models, possibly aquiring scenery. You may be invested in a league spanning 6 months, a year. There aren't 1-2 expansions, there are dozens, and you're expected to pick the ones you want (closer to a tabletop game).

Support matters here, because you're investing far, far more time and effort into these games than something like Pandemic, or even Zombicide. You might need a community to exist to even have people to play against. You are going to be upset that you dropped $350 on Mars Attacks or Dreadball Xtreme, only to have them drop off the face of the earth 6 months after retail release. You are certainly going to be more wary of spending comparable amount of time & money on anything put out by one of these companies in the future.

I think one of the reasons Fantasy Flight is so well regarded is that they are excellent in ensuring the £200 you spent on little painted X-Wings continues to feel relevant long after the fact.

Would be a lot nicer if they had sculptor who could sculpt females, especially faces. Sandra. Donna and Amy all fall into the "That's a man, baby!" zone. and then there are Michone's legs...

I will generally buy zombie figs on principle, but the sculpting on the figs in this game leaves a lot to be desired.

T

Somewhat interesting, from the Kickstarter comments - when the stretch goal for plastic wrecked cars is (hopefully) eventually met, Mantic will be adding some more of them into the $40 add-on. I know the mats are smaller than Deadzone/MA, but they were $25 each in their respective Kickstarters, so that seems like a decent eventual value.

 Bioptic wrote:
Somewhat interesting, from the Kickstarter comments - when the stretch goal for plastic wrecked cars is (hopefully) eventually met, Mantic will be adding some more of them into the $40 add-on. I know the mats are smaller than Deadzone/MA, but they were $25 each in their respective Kickstarters, so that seems like a decent eventual value.

Yeah, sounds great until you realize the extra shipping will cost more than a real wrecked car.

The fear being that 'value' rapidly diminishes when you factor in what Mantic is charging for shipping now, in two waves, versus what you could get most of this for later on, once it is released (and you can see if it is actually any good), at a discount and probably with free shipping too.

Still, early days here, lots of time left...

 Alpharius wrote:
The fear being that 'value' rapidly diminishes when you factor in what Mantic is charging for shipping now, in two waves, versus what you could get most of this for later on, once it is released (and you can see if it is actually any good), at a discount and probably with free shipping too.

Still, early days here, lots of time left...

And it's not like that michonne exclusive is anything to draw backers.

My wife, who is a hugh fan of both the comic and the tv show(and a very good figure painter), LOL'ed when i showed her the pics of the character figures.
They suck.

I'm still mystified as to why they chose the "I'm About To Die" pose for a few. How worthless from a skirmish game perspective to have one of the few figures in your gang posed like that.

I find it interesting thay they are pushing the 'look at the value! Now over $200 MSRP' angle to try and give a high perceived value of the product.

Most in the know though know this is rubbish with the way Mantic products are discounted through various channels.

Anyone else want a 'no models' version on the cheap and just use zombicide?

 Alpharius wrote:
The fear being that 'value' rapidly diminishes when you factor in what Mantic is charging for shipping now, in two waves, versus what you could get most of this for later on, once it is released (and you can see if it is actually any good), at a discount and probably with free shipping too.

Still, early days here, lots of time left...

You live in the U.S; just wait til mini market gets them and sells them for 40% off and buy the lot with free shipping.

Edit:
Meanwhile, TMNT is about to hit $350k.

Edit edit:
It's weird the KS says 2102 backers but it add up the # in each category, you only get 2015.

 MangoMadness wrote:
I find it interesting thay they are pushing the 'look at the value! Now over $200 MSRP' angle to try and give a high perceived value of the product.
Most in the know though know this is rubbish with the way Mantic products are discounted through various channels.
Anyone else want a 'no models' version on the cheap and just use zombicide?

It's not even with discounts. What's the value they're applying to those dice bags or the "KS exclusive" Sheriff's badge?

I dunno if I even want the rules. Having never watched or read TWD and seeing that making your own characters and gang is going to be done in Mantic Afterthought style, it's not especially appealing.

 agnosto wrote:

Edit edit:
It's weird the KS says 2102 backers but it add up the # in each category, you only get 2015.

The rest are probably backers who have selected "no reward". Many people pledge $1 and select "no reward" to receive the updates and PM invites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

I dunno if I even want the rules. Having never watched or read TWD and seeing that making your own characters and gang is going to be done in Mantic Afterthought style, it's not especially appealing.

I'll just be using This is Not a Test (amazing post-apoc ruleset) or Project Z (Warlord is traditionally good) rules for my zombie/nuke apoc wargaming needs. Hell, even Mutants and Death Ray Guns is likely better than whatever Mantic come up with.

To be fair, rulesets are one of Mantic's stronger points. Where they fall down is in a lack of editing or where the freelanced author is allowed to simply "phone it in" for things that isn't something they're keenly interested in - witness KoW1's campaign siege rules, or anything beyond the basic HeroQuest II aspect of Dungeon Saga. I guess a major issue there is that the KS-timeline that Mantic is married to results in rushed out rules that are pretty good but often flawed. How long was DZ out between the final conclusion of the KS before the new KS was announced? Like 7 months? GW would be proud!

On the other hand, KoW's first hardcover incanation (1.5) was very good, and the RC's editorial efforts made version 2 into a great game. Not sure what DZ 2 will end up like, as the RC again had a fething stupidly short amount of time to fix the rules. Like the last 3 weeks of December or something feth stupid like that.

So, err.. in conclusion. Kings of War is pretty good!

I won't disagree with that conclusion!