New casting process/material (UniCast) from Prodos

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**Albino Squirrel**

Check out the review on Jake Thornton's blog: https://quirkworthy.com/2016/05/13/unicast-up-close/

Seems pretty impressive. All the undercuts you want, with no assembly required. Also appears to be harder, more detailed, and less bendy than Bones.

Here's a post from Prodos about this process, including pricing: http://prodosgames.com/blog/prodos-unicast-is-here

Some pictures:

Spoiler:

Some questions that have been answered by user Warzone Resurrection:

Spoiler:

**Necros**

I’m actually really excited about this. I've been wanting to change over to resin minis for a while, I saw this first on a video interview on Beasts of War and was really impressed. After talking with them all about it I was happy to learn that the costs and everything are also very reasonable. I’m going to be using Prodos for my upcoming Blackwater Gulch miniatures. I absolutely love the fact that my minis will be able to have more dynamic poses and not need to have fiddly little arm bits. I just have a couple more new sculpts to finish, then I’ll be ready to order my sample copies, planning to do a little video showing all the detail with lots of closeups when the time comes.

**skarsol**

I have some of their single piece stuff and it's pretty crazy. They should probably stop trying to make their own stuff and just license the process before a competing method appears.

**CURNOW**

Is it made out of hopes and dreams ? What ever it is im glad us backers paid for it .

**PsychoticStorm**

Yes, quite excited about it.

Especially the price they gave for it.

**angelofvengeance**

They should perhaps stop fething about with trying to reinvent the wheel, and finish their bloody Kickstarter first!

**Grot 6**

[MOD EDIT - RULE #2 - ALPHARIUS]

**stanman**

Strange how much this type of stuff sounds like the claims that Tony Reidy (Defiance Games) was making about how Troll Cast material was going to reinvent the miniatures world. Both Prodos and Defiance seem to have similar levels of trustworthiness IMO. No faith int this whatsoever until I see the finished result firsthand and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that I'd back one of their kickstarters.

**MLaw**

stanman wrote:
Strange how much this type of stuff sounds like the claims that Tony Reidy (Defiance Games) was making about how Troll Cast material was going to reinvent the miniatures world. Both Prodos and Defiance seem to have similar levels of trustworthiness IMO. No faith int this whatsoever until I see the finished result firsthand and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that I'd back one of their kickstarters.

Yeah.. no.. Stop. People are trying to run a smear campaign on Prodos because of one or two bad experiences.
I got my White Dragon 15mm stuff in and you know who cast that? Prodos. The infantry is the best I've bought in 15mm and the hard edges on all the machines are crisp. It was delivered on time and with very little cleanup. So, please.. just stop.

**mrondeau**

MLaw wrote:
stanman wrote:
Strange how much this type of stuff sounds like the claims that Tony Reidy (Defiance Games) was making about how Troll Cast material was going to reinvent the miniatures world. Both Prodos and Defiance seem to have similar levels of trustworthiness IMO. No faith int this whatsoever until I see the finished result firsthand and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that I'd back one of their kickstarters.

Yeah.. no.. Stop. People are trying to run a smear campaign on Prodos because of one or two bad experiences.
I got my White Dragon 15mm stuff in and you know who cast that? Prodos. The infantry is the best I've bought in 15mm and the hard edges on all the machines are crisp. It was delivered on time and with very little cleanup. So, please.. just stop.

Prodos has zero problems taking money and not delivering anything. Warning people about this is not a smear campaign. In fact, not doing so would be rather rude.
Silence only helps scammers.

**BobtheInquisitor**

What makes you guys think this will succeed where Trollcast failed? For that matter, why did Trollcast fail? Hopefully it wasn't because it was invented by a company that can't complete its own Kickstarter...

**Panic**

yeah,
I hope this can cast the clear Predators I paid for about two years ago and they still owe me!

Panic...

**Dark Severance**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What makes you guys think this will succeed where Trollcast failed? For that matter, why did Trollcast fail? Hopefully it wasn't because it was invented by a company that can't complete its own Kickstarter...

Apples and oranges in my opinion.

I don't think Trollcast failed. It is a good material utilized through spin casting. The limit is how workload a person can handle, there was no expansion, protection of his "formula" so all the work is essentially done by one person. That is where it failed, the work load and he was overwhelmed. Probably a bit more too it but that is how it looked from the outside. Trollcast provides a great product if you want a multi-piece miniature though spin-casting. There are pros and cons.

I don't think it will revolutionize the market, that isn't the target but it does provide more options. It will however allow options for single piece to be created at a lower cost for someone not looking at steel-mold through traditional injection. The only way for a single piece is injection molding with a high cost mold or paying someone cheap labor to clean/glue your stuff together.

It probably is a very similar formula to Trollcast, although they call it a HIPS/Resin hybrid. The difference though is that it is being injected via traditional injection system, which provides greater control and accuracy. The molds they are utilizing aren't traditional steel mold either, which is where a good portion of cost for manufacturing comes from. That does mean it survives for a smaller amount of runs, my guess would be at 250 runs before the mold deteriorates given the minimum order. Then they have to create a new mold. It won't replace traditional methods as those methods are still improving yearly. The stuff that Ludo Fact puts out this year vs two years ago has improved quite a bit. However someone trying to do a small run needs to get $50-100K just to get enough for the molds vs someone only needing $10K for roughly the same output in a short period.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm still in a wait an see. I have however held the final finished product in my hand and it is solid. They also tend to run their manufacturing business (which I think is under a different legal identify technically speaking if I recall) than the game side (Prodos). They have created quite a bit on that side of the business which appears to be run better.

**MLaw**

I see the AVP stuff available in many places.. were there add-ons that didn't get delivered yet or what? I mean.. if the core game did get delivered and people are missing items then saying they got "nothing" is being melodramatic.

As a G&G backer, Salamander Project, Mercs Recon, Monolith Conan, etc backer.. I know about late KS but you can't call a partially delivered KS a non-delivered.

**mrondeau**

MLaw wrote:
I see the AVP stuff available in many places.. were there add-ons that didn't get delivered yet or what? I mean.. if the core game did get delivered and people are missing items then saying they got "nothing" is being melodramatic.

As a G&G backer, Salamander Project, Mercs Recon, Monolith Conan, etc backer.. I know about late KS but you can't call a partially delivered KS a non-delivered.

The core game did not get delivered.
When I say "nothing", I mean exactly that: nothing.

**AegisGrimm**

The problem I see is that supposedly the female not-terminator is a one piece cast, arms, shoulder pads and all. I can't even believe how hard that miniature would be to paint like that!!

**Joyboozer**

MLaw wrote:
I see the AVP stuff available in many places.. were there add-ons that didn't get delivered yet or what? I mean.. if the core game did get delivered and people are missing items then saying they got "nothing" is being melodramatic.

As a G&G backer, Salamander Project, Mercs Recon, Monolith Conan, etc backer.. I know about late KS but you can't call a partially delivered KS a non-delivered.

I also have recieved absolutely nothing.
You seem to make it a habit of defending companies that don't deliver.

**Nostromodamus**

MLaw wrote:
I see the AVP stuff available in many places.. were there add-ons that didn't get delivered yet or what?

They have partially completed wave 1, and sent out some wave 2. Wave 3 is still being approved by Fox last I heard.

And yes it is available to buy at retail in many places, this was done so Prodos could make money to afford to be able to ship the KS rewards to backers. They stated some time ago that they had raised enough to ship, but people are still waiting.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.

As to the topic at hand, it sounds very interesting. I'll be keeping an eye on how it develops.

**Albino Squirrel**

I should have including this in the first place, though it is linked from the blog post. This is a post from Prodos about this process, which includes pricing details: http://prodosgames.com/blog/prodos-unicast-is-here

One major benefit of UniCast appears to be much smaller startup cost.

Also, I believe there's some rule on Dakka about staying on topic... this thread isn't about their kickstarter.

**Monkeysloth**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What makes you guys think this will succeed where Trollcast failed? For that matter, why did Trollcast fail? Hopefully it wasn't because it was invented by a company that can't complete its own Kickstarter...

Troll cast didn't fail per say. Impact minis uses it and so does Raging Heroes (Ed casts all their spun cast resin)--but they don't call it troll cast anymore due to the first Rex Box KS and the Defiance shenanigans.

**richred_uk**

Albino Squirrel wrote:

Also, I believe there's some rule on Dakka about staying on topic... this thread isn't about their kickstarter.

I think their business/ personal ethics are on topic if you are considering doing business with them.

As is their ability to live up to promises they make.

Both have been brought into serious question by their actions to date.

Caveat Emptor.

**Thebiggesthat**

It's a shame it's Prodos doing this, as far as I've heard they are in a mess and aren't getting out of it any time soon.

As long as I get my AvP before they call it a day I'll be satisfied.

And please, less of the 'less of the moaning about KS, I've had more kickstarters go wrong than you' arguments, Prodos deserve all the stick they get.

**angelofvengeance**

Spoiler:

Smear campaign? Please. They've brought this on themselves. There's nothing smear campaign-y about it. We don't deny that their casting quality is awesome (it is as I have a few avp models now), all we (the backers) want is our stuff that we forked out for. In some cases, folks have spent 100s on this and seen bugger all in return apart from "Soon (tm)" comments by Jarek and Michal.

**Siygess**

I've talked with multiple companies who have had their miniatures produced and cast by Prodos and while I may have been 'lucky' and simply talked with the ones who have been happy with the results, the overall impression of their business -to-business dealings is positive.

So while there is no denying the fact that some backers don't have *any* of their AvP pledge yet and many are still waiting on some of it.. and there is a disconnect between what they could do, should do and *are* doing about it.. these guys aren't the shysters some people would have you believe.

**JohnnyHell**

I've never bought anything and won't. Communities self-police. If people are waiting two years for product they paid for then that's fact, not a smear. Reviews are reviews, and the reviews I hear say stay clear.

**PsychoticStorm**

It is obvious that Prodos is setting themselves to become manufacturers for hire, including concept art and sculpting.

So far what I hear from various industry insiders they are quite good at this.

Yes, maybe warzone and AVP has created bad blood between consumers but their reputation in companies is at the moment not bad.

Space Crusade seemed odd at first, but once they revealed the models are single pose it was obvious its a showcase product for the manufacturing process.

**Zywus**

Siygess wrote:I've talked with multiple companies who have had their miniatures produced and cast by Prodos and while I may have been 'lucky' and simply talked with the ones who have been happy with the results, the overall impression of their business -to-business dealings is positive.

So while there is no denying the fact that some backers don't have *any* of their AvP pledge yet and many are still waiting on some of it.. and there is a disconnect between what they could do, should do and *are* doing about it.. these guys aren't the shysters some people would have you believe.

JohnnyHell wrote:I've never bought anything and won't. Communities self-police. If people are waiting two years for product they paid for then that's fact, not a smear. Reviews are reviews, and the reviews I hear say stay clear.

Prodos seems to be great to work with when you're a company contracting them to cast your stuff for you.

They seem less fun to deal with if you're a customer in general, and KS backer in particular.

**Albino Squirrel**

Zywus wrote:
Siygess wrote:I've talked with multiple companies who have had their miniatures produced and cast by Prodos and while I may have been 'lucky' and simply talked with the ones who have been happy with the results, the overall impression of their business -to-business dealings is positive.

So while there is no denying the fact that some backers don't have *any* of their AvP pledge yet and many are still waiting on some of it.. and there is a disconnect between what they could do, should do and *are* doing about it.. these guys aren't the shysters some people would have you believe.

JohnnyHell wrote:I've never bought anything and won't. Communities self-police. If people are waiting two years for product they paid for then that's fact, not a smear. Reviews are reviews, and the reviews I hear say stay clear.

Prodos seems to be great to work with when you're a company contracting them to cast your stuff for you.

They seem less fun to deal with if you're a customer in general, and KS backer in particular.

And how they deal with their kickstarter backers is completely irrelevant to the topic of their new casting process and how they deal with their business customers who wish to use it.

**CptJake**

Albino Squirrel wrote:

And how they deal with their kickstarter backers is completely irrelevant to the topic of their new casting process and how they deal with their business customers who wish to use it.

That is your opinion. Others, including myself, disagree with you. Any company that works with Prodos deserves to know they risk some of the Prodos stink rubbing off on them. Any person supporting Prodos should at least know how dishonest Jarek and crew are. If you choose to still support gak bags, so be it.

**PsychoticStorm**

I am almost certain the vast majority of consumers who buy from a company that has subcontracted Prodos do not know it and do not care.

Look I am certain the way they botched both kickstarters their fault or not, has created some bad blood and mind you I got my warzone stuff with two years delay because they insisted writing wrong my address no matter how many times I send it to them (was warzone and AVP the response of the UK office that got dissolved?).

But reading the complains especially about AVP in every thread the name Prodos is mentioned becomes quite frustrating.