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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Kevin Rountree became the CEO of Games Workshop after the oft-maligned Tom Kirby stepped down. The narrative was that Tom Kirby was evil and greedy, and he was the bogeyman who drove GW to its current state. It's now been nearly 18 months since Rountree took the reigns. There seems to be a belief that everything bad to this point since Mr. Rountree took over were things that Mr. Kirby had put into motion years before. Meanwhile, everything good in the last year-and-a-half are obviously attributable to the new CEO.

So, at what point does GW become exclusively Rountree's baby?

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Whatever time needs to pass for the average lead time on the project in question to have expired, plus some interest because he won't have commissioned every new project on day 1.

I suspect the first new edition of 40K would be the best line in the sand to draw.

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The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

So, using Death from the Skies as an example: does it take 18 months for a game supplement to go from an idea to a printed copy on the store shelf?

   
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Pittsburgh, PA

 the_Armyman wrote:
So, using Death from the Skies as an example: does it take 18 months for a game supplement to go from an idea to a printed copy on the store shelf?


It certainly could, if new model releases accompany the supplement
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 the_Armyman wrote:
So, using Death from the Skies as an example: does it take 18 months for a game supplement to go from an idea to a printed copy on the store shelf?


You do grasp he doesn't personally write the rules, nor does any of the play testing? (Should it occur.)

If you want to pick over every release since Jan 2015, hold it up to the light and declare "Kirby" or "Rountree" go ahead, just don't expect me to join in.

Take a broader macro view of the company, have they done more things since Rountree took over that people are generally positive about, especially outside of simply releasing models, than they did before?

Can you identify another reason for the change outside of a new CEO taking things in a new direction?

Something like DFTS could be a hold over from the Kirby era, it could just be the result of a creative team heavily indoctrinated in doing things a certain way and falling back into old behaviour patterns, it could simply be a misstep as GW try and figure things out as they try to move forwards.

You can perhaps draw a general line in the sand beyond which it is extremely unlikely Kirby had any direct influence, which is what I was driving at, but you must remember he is still present in the GW hierarchy, and we have no idea how much stuff GW have lying around to plug holes in the schedule.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Reynoldsburg Ohio

I'm pretty sure Roundtree knew he was taking over long before it was announced and then happened. He seems like the type of guy that would lay the groundwork for what he wanted under Kirby's nose.

What is most important is Roundtree's Intent. He genuinly wants to make fun games and put out product people love while also making investers happy. Kirby just wanted to build a golden parachute.

Kirby is going to be the main target for years, even if something is a good thing, people will still trash it because GW is doing it and Kirby is evil. Some people are just slow to change or to adapt to change, so GW will continue to be the evil Kirby empire in their minds for years to come.

   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter






The second i see a sale that doesn't involve bundles.



 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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South Portsmouth, KY USA

Call me crazy, but I would put the "Begin Collecting" army boxes under Roundtree as well as the upcoming general release of Battle of Vendros(?) which will be available in places like Michaels, Hobby Lobby, and other non-specific hobby stores, likely through a trade channel that doesn't require a $2,500 US buy-in of other GW products to carry. Simply as a way to a) bring back players from past years, b) to introduce to kids and new players who may not have a game/comics specific hobby shop in their town all for a far more reasonable price and with short-run ten and streamlined rules.

Also have you noticed the anniversary swag going about lately with the special models available? Not only those but the advertising going around about them as well. The 35th anniversary Space Marine and the 100th store commemorative figures, this was something we didn't see under Kirby's reign. Roundtree is building hype around the product and getting disgruntled fans like me coming back (slowly, but I've been seeing increasing value for my dollar in many of GW's current offerings)

I kept seeing the company sink further towards oblivion with Kirby at the helm as there were no-brainer opportunities that were missed and a gross lack of understanding of both the product and customers by both deed and word.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/17 02:12:10


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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper



Dawsonville GA

Well there seems to be a shift in how the company is doing business and there is a new CEO. Are the two related? Maybe. Can you think of any other reason for the change? I can't. So I can only conclude that it is Roundtree. I definitely could be wrong but until other evidence is revealed that is all I can go on. You are of course free to come to a different conclusion.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

xraytango wrote:
Call me crazy, but I would put the "Begin Collecting" army boxes under Roundtree as well as the upcoming general release of Battle of Vendros(?) which will be available in places like Michaels, Hobby Lobby, and other non-specific hobby stores, likely through a trade channel that doesn't require a $2,500 US buy-in of other GW products to carry. Simply as a way to a) bring back players from past years, b) to introduce to kids and new players who may not have a game/comics specific hobby shop in their town all for a far more reasonable price and with short-run ten and streamlined rules.


The Battle of Vedros hasn't even hit the shelves, let alone actually yielded results. If it works, great. But how about we give it a year before we consider it a success.

Also have you noticed the anniversary swag going about lately with the special models available? Not only those but the advertising going around about them as well. The 35th anniversary Space Marine and the 100th store commemorative figures, this was something we didn't see under Kirby's reign. Roundtree is building hype around the product and getting disgruntled fans like me coming back (slowly, but I've been seeing increasing value for my dollar in many of GW's current offerings)


There was a 30th Anniversary SM five years ago and there will be a 40th Anniversary SM five years from now. There were two exclusive plastic SM Captains offered when the new webstore went live a year ago. These are not revolutionary ideas and certainly not worthy of kudos. In fact, it's more of the BUY NOW! LIMITED STOCKS! model of making a quick buck that we've seen a lot of for the past five years or so.

I kept seeing the company sink further towards oblivion with Kirby at the helm as there were no-brainer opportunities that were missed and a gross lack of understanding of both the product and customers by both deed and word.


Other than some bundles that save you a buck and exclusive SM minis, why did you come back? Those just seem to be some pretty low bars to get to get you back in the door.

   
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Major




London

xraytango wrote:

Also have you noticed the anniversary swag going about lately with the special models available? Not only those but the advertising going around about them as well. The 35th anniversary Space Marine and the 100th store commemorative figures, this was something we didn't see under Kirby's reign.


There were many many anniversary and commemorative figures released under Kirby. Did you look for any of them before making that statement?

How about this one from 2008?



2000?



   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Something to bear in mind is that business do annual budgets which are their master plan for how much money they are going to spend on activities in the coming year. The budget obviously has to be related to expected income and spending on new projects as well as business as usual.

Thus, if Rountree comes in with a bunch of plans and ideas, there's a limit to what he can achieve in the first year, because the budget for that year has already been worked out and there is not a lot of flexibility. Things get easier in the second year, and by the third year he should have got things turned around in the direction he wants. GW's financial year begins in July.

This sort of matches what we have seen of Rountree's tenure so far. During his first year -- which is half under the previous Kirby financial plan -- WHFB got canned, AoS got rolled out in a somewhat pedestrian way, and 40K carried on business as usual. Shows and competitions started to appear again. In the second half year by which time Rountree has been able to start getting his own budget priorities into effect, we started to see more changes like:

Reduced price bundles.
Cheaper rulebooks.
Communication with the community.
More shows and competitions, presence at non-GW shows.
More board games and return of Specialist Games on the horizon.

In my view, therefore, after the end of 2017 we can truly start to blame Rountree for everything bad or more hopefully we can congratuiate him on a marvellous rennaissance of the company.

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We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Dakka Veteran



South Portsmouth, KY USA

@the_Armyman I don't believe that I called the upcoming Vedros series of kits a success, I merely stated that it is a product that has a goal and is a something that should have been around a lot sooner. It will expose people to the product, because of where it is being sold, that may not have been exposed to it through a more narrow channel.

Imagine a wide-cast product designed to expose a wider field of customers as opposed to the relatively narrow few that go to "nerd stores". Can't be a bad thing, right?

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Longtime Dakkanaut




I would assume that two years after starting should be an okay date. At that point he's probably responsible for most, if not all, of the major decisions and has adjusted to whatever was standing in his way of doing whatever he had planed.
   
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Sergeant





Prior to being CEO, wasn't he heavily involved in the day to day running of the company answering directly the board? Isn't he responsible for how the Kirby era approach got executed? GW has shown some tiny amount of shifting in their approach, but have things really changed? Isn't he running the same high-margin-low-volume-the-hobby-is-buying-our-products approach that Kirby implemented? Kirby has been in charge a long, long time and I imagine there's some institutional momentum that means it will take some drastic action for Rountree to be his own man when it comes to running the company.
   
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In a van down by the river

 MattofWar wrote:
Prior to being CEO, wasn't he heavily involved in the day to day running of the company answering directly the board? Isn't he responsible for how the Kirby era approach got executed? GW has shown some tiny amount of shifting in their approach, but have things really changed? Isn't he running the same high-margin-low-volume-the-hobby-is-buying-our-products approach that Kirby implemented? Kirby has been in charge a long, long time and I imagine there's some institutional momentum that means it will take some drastic action for Rountree to be his own man when it comes to running the company.


Being "heavily involved" and "having an actual say in matters" are two wildly different things, especially when dealing with an nigh-unstoppable CEO since he is also Chairman of the Board who coincidentally believes he's the second coming of Steve Jobs. That GW "hires for attitude" was a pretty clear sign that anyone who told Emperor Kirby he had no clothes on would shortly find themselves "not a good fit" in the company. That might be acceptable if you just view what you do as a j-o-b, but if you genuinely love the company and remember its history then you grit your teeth at the stupidity and wait for your chance to try and fix things.

Things that I believe Rountree has had a hand in changing is that GW models are now available in some circumstances at a discount; that nearly NEVER happened when Kirby was at the reigns if it even happened at all (I vaguely recall some limited Christmas-time box sets that had a minor discount). The idea that you could buy two Imperial Knights for $195 which is already ~35% off MSRP and then get a bit of terrain on top of it wouldn't occur under Kirby. It'd have been $330, because that'd be a $5 savings and that was about all the more Kirby seemed capable of allowing. The various "Start Collecting" boxes are also actually not-awful deals if you had an interest in the army, though ironically expanding becomes exorbitantly expensive as you hit the wall of "Old GW" pricing. I imagine that's political given how Kirby crowed about GW never lowering prices and never putting things on sale to investors; Rountree's "this isn't a sale or a discount...it's an entirely different SKU!" shell game is quite clever in that he doesn't make Kirby a liar, but he skirts around the idea that price is immovable.

Is IK:R and the "Start Collecting" bundles simply taking already paid-for moulds, repackaging them in bulk and selling them at a discount? Yes, that's all it is, and it's something that GW under Kirby never bothered to do despite it being obvious low-hanging fruit to prop up sales; Kirby's answer was to release new giant kits, cycle rules faster and raise prices. The low-cost range for mainstream retailers is another area that Kirby wouldn't have wandered into for fear of "sullying the brand" that Rountree clearly (and likely correctly) sees as vital to recruiting new players to replace aging and/or disenchanted veterans.

Now, it's possible that after years of stagnant sales Kirby finally woke up to reality and realized he had not only run the ship aground, it was halfway across the Panama Isthmus and thus he made those changes himself. That would leave Rountree to get the credit as the man on the spot. However, given that Kirby had those years to change things and didn't, and you see a shift in direction now with a new person in charge it would seem likely that he's the reason for it.
   
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Take a look at products and changes, and ask yourself 'How long would this have to be in the pipe?'

Repackaging older kits is fast.

Releasing older games to use existing models is fast.

Starting up a convention presence is fast.

Bundling existing things together is fast.

Bringing back the Facebook pages is fast.

Age of Sigmar had to be in the pipe for a while.

Betrayal at Caith had to be in the pipe for a while.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
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[MOD]
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Speaking for myself I don't think Battle of Calthe or AoS needed long development periods.

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Western Kentucky

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Speaking for myself I don't think Battle of Calthe or AoS needed long development periods.

Didn't we have confirmed pics of Calth for over a year before it came out though? I distinctly remember pictures of the tac Marines with no idea what they were for and people claiming they were a hoax

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Canada

There was some concern Kevin would be a sock-puppet for Kirby.
I am seeing some hopeful good changes as of late.

So could we be at the stage where we blame Kirby for bad stuff and Kevin for good stuff?

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Made in us
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Remeber people roundtree doesn't write rules or design models or create any of the projects. He simply steers the company toward his vision. He seems more sales based whereas Kirby was more shareholder based. Sounds the same but isn't. Kirby wanted to raise profits by cutting costs. Roundtree is actually reversing that decision and increasing costs with things that Kirby cut such as the community rep on Facebook.

All those bundle deals and board game repackaged seems like him because he specifically mentioned in his shareholder address he was not lowering individual model prices but instead offer the same product at different price points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/26 22:29:24


 
   
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Throughout Kirby's tenure from the pop of the LOTR bubble till today, he's been about cutting costs and raising prices to cover the lower sales volume while talking about some magical return to growth that will somehow happen if only the stars align. And when it didn't he always put the blame squarely on the sales force. The store managers weren't doing it right. The trade account sales weren't hitting their targets and so on. Never was there any talk of breaking into new markets or expanding their player base or looking into new distribution channels.

Since he's been gone, GW has done some of these things (like going more aggressively after toy stores and the like). I think it's probably more than a coincidence that GW is actually trying to do something to return to growth rather than just telling their store managers to hit sales targets or lose their jobs.

In a previous post I made the point that GW probably has a lot of institutional momentum as a result of Kirby's tenure. If something goes against that direction, it's probably a result of new leadership as it certainly would not have come from Kirby's lack of a plan to return the company to growth.
   
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South Portsmouth, KY USA

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
xraytango wrote:

Also have you noticed the anniversary swag going about lately with the special models available? Not only those but the advertising going around about them as well. The 35th anniversary Space Marine and the 100th store commemorative figures, this was something we didn't see under Kirby's reign.


There were many many anniversary and commemorative figures released under Kirby. Did you look for any of them before making that statement?

How about this one from 2008?



2000?






Amazing, those figures were eight years apart, the figures I'm talking about are only one month apart.
There's no way you can tell me that is nothing of note.

Don't need pedantry, we have limited figures offered within one month of each other, I have never seen this from GW, and I have been a customer and fan, even if I had a few years of boycott/extremely limited purchase from them, since around 1987 when I bought my first Citadel miniature.

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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Speaking for myself I don't think Battle of Calthe or AoS needed long development periods.

Didn't we have confirmed pics of Calth for over a year before it came out though? I distinctly remember pictures of the tac Marines with no idea what they were for and people claiming they were a hoax


IDK however that doesn't invalidate my point.

Put simply, inventing a game like AoS or BoC isn't a major project, especially for a company like GW that exists to invent games like AoS and BoC, and it doesn't have to take years.

It might take years because of dilly-dallying and shilly-shallying by management and this drives to the topic since I think Rountree has been a lot more pro-active and vigorous and thereby got a lot more stuff going since he became top guy.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Major




London

xraytango wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
xraytango wrote:

Also have you noticed the anniversary swag going about lately with the special models available? Not only those but the advertising going around about them as well. The 35th anniversary Space Marine and the 100th store commemorative figures, this was something we didn't see under Kirby's reign.


There were many many anniversary and commemorative figures released under Kirby. Did you look for any of them before making that statement?

How about this one from 2008?



2000?






Amazing, those figures were eight years apart, the figures I'm talking about are only one month apart.
There's no way you can tell me that is nothing of note.

Don't need pedantry, we have limited figures offered within one month of each other, I have never seen this from GW, and I have been a customer and fan, even if I had a few years of boycott/extremely limited purchase from them, since around 1987 when I bought my first Citadel miniature.


I'm glad you feel the need to state how long you've been in the hobby. Those are examples, not a complete list, but I can see you've made your mind up.
   
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-

People laughed at me when I said this before, and they'll probably laugh again, but this situation reminds me of the Soviet Union in World War 2.

Kirby, is Stalin. He knows GW (Russia) is in trouble from the German Invasion (falling sales) so he appoints Zhukov (Rountree) to win the war for the Red Army (GW)

When the war is won, and the Berlin Victory parade is on us (GW increasing sales) Comrade Kirby will exile Rountree just like what happened in 1945 with Zhukov.

Yes, it's a strange analogy, but that's my great fear for GW.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
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Kirby is 65. He's been CEO and Chairman for nearly 15 years. drawing two emoluments on top, of which his 8% share holding got excellent dividends every year. Even in loss-making years GW borrowed to pay a good divi.

On top of that he managed to get his wife to head up a major IT project for a year or two, for which she would have got good wedge.

If all that weren't enough his shares have made massive capital gains since the mid-90s even if the current price fluctuates a bit.

Kirby wants to retire and enjoy his gains. He's got no motive to kick out Rountree unless Rountree's results are totally disastrous.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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 the_Armyman wrote:
Kevin Rountree became the CEO of Games Workshop after the oft-maligned Tom Kirby stepped down. The narrative was that Tom Kirby was evil and greedy, and he was the bogeyman who drove GW to its current state. It's now been nearly 18 months since Rountree took the reigns. There seems to be a belief that everything bad to this point since Mr. Rountree took over were things that Mr. Kirby had put into motion years before. Meanwhile, everything good in the last year-and-a-half are obviously attributable to the new CEO.

So, at what point does GW become exclusively Rountree's baby?


The moment that he was named, Roundtree became the face of the company. He gained what he did, the company looks to actually be improving, and if its from top down management, it yet remains to be seen, but in the short term, there seems to be progress.

The "everything bad" thing is ambiguous. As to business decisions, they come down to who made them. If Roundtree was responsible for anything before his tenure, then it would stand that he is responsible, but at the point he is at right now, 18 months in, he is now responsible for good or ill.

As with most businesses, you have to look at them in quarter, or annual terms. That is how the standards of their good or ill are measured.

That and the bottom line.



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Western Kentucky

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Speaking for myself I don't think Battle of Calthe or AoS needed long development periods.

Didn't we have confirmed pics of Calth for over a year before it came out though? I distinctly remember pictures of the tac Marines with no idea what they were for and people claiming they were a hoax


IDK however that doesn't invalidate my point.

Put simply, inventing a game like AoS or BoC isn't a major project, especially for a company like GW that exists to invent games like AoS and BoC, and it doesn't have to take years.

It might take years because of dilly-dallying and shilly-shallying by management and this drives to the topic since I think Rountree has been a lot more pro-active and vigorous and thereby got a lot more stuff going since he became top guy.



I'm not talking about the game of Calth itself though. I'm talking about the plastic sprues, whcih, if I remember right, were dated back to 2012 or something crazy like that. I'm sure the "game" was made in a week, but building several new sets of plastic molds takes time

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I've been blaming everything on Rountree since he got "into office".

Which is why I always use the qualifier "Generally good". He will get the more ambiguous "Awesome" when he accrues more brownie points or will be shamed with the term "worse than Kirby" if he looses brownie points.

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Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


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