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Hey all

Does anyone else think that White Dwarf is a complete pile of garbage?

I recently took out a 6 month subscription and was shocked by how boring and useless it is. I feel like I am paying GW to deliver spam advertising to me

The old monthly White Dwarf was much higher quality, and contained a good range of content.

White Dwarf has been an Ad for products GW sells since its inception 30+ year ago so it shouldn't be some great surprise that it still is.

I think the weekly one is better than the last few years of the monthly edition, but I wouldn't take a subscription out; it costs more than buying the thing weekly for a start!. I mean it actually contains rules these days. It hadn't done that for years.

Also being weekly I don't feel inclined to buy it all the time and just get the odd copy when there something useful in it. I probably bough a dozen copies since it went weekly. I probably didn't get that many WD's in the proceeding 6 years.

Its improved allot but still not a must have.

It's terrible compared to what it was in the 90s. There used to be all sorts of fun articles and battle reports etc. Now it's just a very bland advertising pamphlet. Yes there are occasionally rules in it, but that doesn't warrant a subscription.

It's gone from the site now but they were advertising for a new WD editor a wee while back.

its most certainly not of the quality it was, Warhammer Visions I find better but even when you add the two together content wise you are not really getting all you had from the old magazine...

I remember the good old days when WD was sold in WH Smith, and you could read it for free. Not that I'd ever sink to that level, mind you

 notprop wrote:
White Dwarf has been an Ad for products GW sells since its inception 30+ year ago so it shouldn't be some great surprise that it still is.

To be fair, the old ones had lots of articles around the adverts so they weren't as jarring. The ones ones are probably about the size of the old (90's, anyway) editions but with all the real content removed.

OP - GW are pretty good at cancelling subscriptions if you aren't satisfied - just drop customer serives an email/phone call, or ask your store manager.

I like the occasional Paint Splatter article, but other than that - meh.

But if you go back to before the 90's they had loads of content, all these articles for differant flavour of the month RPGs which all came after the full page GW mail order list for them. You'd get an article or adventure for a few months when a games released or a supplement then it was something else.

Obviously that to more refined and then moved on to GW only stuff, specifically miniatures when Citadel took over.

The Ad thing makes me laugh as if it's some revelation. I sopposedly at least in the 80/90's the letter page had critical response from readers that they were happy to publish.

From the issue I read years ago it came across as a rag with no substance other than "buy, buy, buy!". Rather older issues had the same line, but there was fluff there to draw you in first.

Actual content requires effort though.

Compare it to a similar magazine and you'll spot the quality difference straight away. Wargames Illustrated for instance shills out for its sponsors, but every page literally isn't just a picture of a product with a price tag beneath it.

WD has always had its highs and lows.

Right now it's at a low point, but eventually it will turn around and be great again... And eventually after that it will get bad again... So on and so on.

'The Giant Issue' - that's when it all went down hill

Oni - you may be right in that GW are now starting to make more games again, and they'll have more to talk about - the writers for the mag over the past 5-6 years haven't had a lot of material to work with to be honest, when compared to the 90's when you had a mass of different games, a lot of which had detailed campaign and scenario options which gave a metric ton of different things you could write about.

Definitely a change of 'feel' though, from a hobbyist's magazine to a corporate sales pamphlet, not sure you can really do anything about that other than to find a way to go back in time

As I am moving house soon, I have all my old WD's packed into a box (need to have 2 people to actually lift it) and am glad I still kept them.

Never bought any WD after the change, but was able to flick through some pages sometimes. I agree that the quality has deteriorated immensly, and am glad that I have my old WD's still to look through sometimes. Way more content in those, even with the adverts. You actually had hobby stuff in them and WD's with extra cardboard cards for e.g. Space Crusade and free mini's and stuff.

Shame they overhauled it.

WD still exists?

No it doesnt. It died years ago when everything even remotely interesting got removed and it finally became a lousy add.

RoninXiC wrote:
WD still exists?

No it doesnt. It died years ago when everything even remotely interesting got removed and it finally became a lousy add.

Statements like this by Ronin just say it all really, most people wrote it off a long time ago, all hope lost !

I never pay for magazines anymore, niether pixelated nor dead tree, there is just no need anymore.
I am almost always hooked up to the net, and there are more articles on there, than I could ever wish to read !

My favourite time for white dwarf was back when they had all the terrain tutorials like making gene pools from moonscapes, building a lava board with polystyrene and such as well as stuff like the huge article in the white dwarf for the 5th edition 40k release where it showed us how to build really big game boards

Oh and the conversion articles that spanned pages and pages *drools*

White Dwarf of the last 5-8 years is utter crap.

I remember when they showcased people's terrain creations (back before GW official terrain, there were complete scratchbuilt urban boards, etc), there were pull-out cardstock terrain items and gaming materials like rules references and cards for things that were additions to the game, several different mini-boardgames, articles on designing campaigns, all sorts of great stuff!

Not to mention articles like the tale of four gamers (I think that was the name), where each guy had a small amount of money per week to add to a fledgling army, and then at the end of each time period they went at it with their new stuff. They actually went into detail of how they got the most bang from their buck (well, pound).

I buy it solely for expansion content for their recent board-type games. I only buy the copies that specifically expand on those games. It's a lot more affordable that way and also helps the FLGS out, if only a couple of dollars.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
White Dwarf of the last 5-8 years is utter crap.

I remember when they showcased people's terrain creations (back before GW official terrain, there were complete scratchbuilt urban boards, etc), there were pull-out cardstock terrain items and gaming materials like rules references and cards for things that were additions to the game, several different mini-boardgames, articles on designing campaigns, all sorts of great stuff!

Not to mention articles like the tale of four gamers (I think that was the name), where each guy had a small amount of money per week to add to a fledgling army, and then at the end of each time period they went at it with their new stuff. They actually went into detail of how they got the most bang from their buck (well, pound).

The WD of the last 10-15 years is utter crap. Once 'fat bloke' Paul Sawyer left it really went down hill fast. The late 80's early 90's WD where good for the most part. There where still some stinkers in there but for the most part pre-internet WD was fantastic. Fat Dwarf was great also but man the quality went down hill really fast and the 'Giant issue' was just a huge slap in the face.

I wish I could of kept all my old WD's ( from issue 110ish to issue 230ish) but I moved and had to give them a way to a friend, god I really wish I kept them. :(

White Dwarf has had four makeovers in the last five years it seems.

I have an old white dwarf that had army rules for a Krell/Kemmler themed undead army and a Skaven Hellpit army. All the model points/abilities/unit lists everything. Scenarios and painting/modeling pages for them too. I almost got into WHFB back then because I thought it was so cool that they had a codex supplement in their magazine.

Hell, white dwarf used to be my source of inspiration for conversions before these dang ol' forums were a thing. Kind of sad.

White Dwarf sucks, but Warhammer Visions is a really enjoyable coffee table magazine. Photos online are nice but there is something to be said for a nice thIck printed magazine with glossy pages of beatifully set up and painted miniatures and terrain. Would recommend it for sure.

Yeah it funny isn't it.

The universally panned upon release Warhammer Visions magazine is the better of the two, even at £7.50.

I'd have to agree that (IMO) the Paul Sawyer "Fat Bloke" era was the best. As others have said, WD has always been a vehicle for sales, but it also had legitimate content at one point. Some of those old battle reports in particular were just spectacular. One of my personal favorites was the battle on the studio's "new trench system board". It was a beautiful WW1 style trench system with old wooden bunkers at one end and the while 9 yards. Really great. We never saw the board again after that or course ...

Paul took his White Scars against Phil Kelly's CSM. I realize that a biker army probably isn't the most realistic choice for a trench assault but that was part of the fun. It was pretty epic.

I feel like they stopped caring/trying the first time they made a battle report using no points and not even bothering with (at the very least) a logical army composition. It just became "LOOK! a new codex is out! Phil Kelly is going to take one of EVERYTHING in the book against ..... who cares. BUY MORE STUFF!". Now the reports have been compressed even more to the point that it's pretty much a few random pics and a couple bullet points.

I haven't bought a WD in a VERY long time and I don't see that trend reversing any time soon.

Would sometimes buy a rare copy in WHSmith. Have no need to go into GW shops, so can't even do that any more.

As some have mentioned already, I remember the days when they had card terrain, lots of rules, great articles, and even mini games like the Bretonnian jousting ruleset. Also, the Black Gobbo was a great mini magazine too. I miss that.

It's all in what you want in the magazine. I think that the general "quality of spectacle" has gone up significantly -- pretty much every issue has awesome-looking cinematic dioramas that are pretty inspirational in modelling terms. Most of the layouts like the back-cover ones are pretty spectacular in modelling, photography, lighting, composition -- and mostly, they are nigh unplayable in terms of the game, but clearly, that's not what they're going for.

Inside the magazine, if you objectively compare 4 issues of weekly WD versus 1 issue of monthly WD (or better, 52 vs 12), the amount of product, game, rules, modelling, minigame, and fiction content aren't too terribly different, I think. The most notable difference is price, and of course, frequency. The paper quality has gone up significantly, and the entire publication is much more "shiny commercial" rather than "nerdy 80s": I don't mind that, though I wouldn't mind it the other way either.

Although I generally like the magazine quite a lot, I would like to see more modelling articles beyond paint splatter (there are some, but they are very few and far between). It would be nice if there were some of the tips that are tucked away in the painting or FW Masterclass books, some stuff on airbrushing, especially since they sell airbrush paints now, FW weathering powders, etc.

I really don't care about battle reports, as there are an endless flood of them on the Internet anyways. On the other hand, although I love the cinematic photography, I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional really nicely dressed gaming table, or photography of real events in WHW.

I think the ratio of fiction is fine; I wouldn't want more of it -- the problem is, if it's a subject I don't care much about, the whole piece is lost on me. And, I would love the return of a cartoon strip. My favorite thing about WD of my childhood... Thrudd the Barbarian!

The ratio of new rules is good, but I would prefer it to be more than dataslates. I would love to see, maybe a couple of times a year, optional core rule additions to "try out" -- then, depending on fan response, incorporate them into the next version of the game or not. Sort of the way Dragon magazine introduced new character classes or items or monsters for AD&D and then some version of those might make it into a future rulebook. At the moment, the new gaming content is quite predictable.

The minigames, personally, I haven't played a single one

For new product content, I'm perfectly good with that. In my opinion, if you just want to know what's coming down the pipeline, just go to the website or subscribe by email -- the new releases are posted there at the same time (Saturday) as the WD is released. The WD gives you some extra photography, maybe some rules, that kind of thing, which is cool.

On a personal preference note, I would not prefer to go back to monthly issues. I like the weekly cycle coinciding with the release schedule, and the way this works into the rumor-news-release cycle of GW-land.

Going back to price for a moment, White Dwarf seems expensive, but frankly, so does every other magazine my family is interested in these days. Car & Driver, Architectural Digest, Country Living, Consumer Digest... take your pick, they're pricy, often in the $10+ range. Sure, you can get a lot of the content for free on the Internet, sometimes on the same company's website. But that's the cost of having it in print, I guess. With the Internet, I've resigned myself to everything in print that I want just costing more, I suppose because so many people just opt to not buy the print stuff that the circulation number goes down.

 Rayvon wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
WD still exists?

No it doesnt. It died years ago when everything even remotely interesting got removed and it finally became a lousy add.

Statements like this by Ronin just say it all really, most people wrote it off a long time ago, all hope lost !

I never pay for magazines anymore, niether pixelated nor dead tree, there is just no need anymore.
I am almost always hooked up to the net, and there are more articles on there, than I could ever wish to read !

There are plenty of good magazines out there still though.

Not just wargaming (although there are a couple; Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy and Wargames Illustrated are probably the best), but plenty covering games, movies, music, politics, any other facet of modern culture or entertainment really.

There are loads of articles out there, and of course some quality examples on the net. But there is also a lot of gak, the culling of some of the lesser magazines has meant that for the most part if you are buying a magazine these days you're paying to read the work of someone who can write well and is being paid for it.

Don't think you can blame the decline of print media entirely on the fall in standard of White Dwarf. It's obviously a part of it, but a reduction in the subject matter, change in culture within GW, and I think a reduction of people who can write well, and are paid to do so, is all attributable to it becoming worth barely a single-poo toilet read.

I'd be absolutely shocked if they could ever regain the popularity of the Fat Bloke White Dwarves.

The young teens probably can't imagine it, but it used to be that the quality of White Dwarf sold GW to the masses, and made the company successful. Unfortunately, the internet came and places like Dakka made GW lazy, because we fans sold GW to the masses for them, so they could stop working as hard.

 Pacific wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
WD still exists?

No it doesnt. It died years ago when everything even remotely interesting got removed and it finally became a lousy add.

Statements like this by Ronin just say it all really, most people wrote it off a long time ago, all hope lost !

I never pay for magazines anymore, niether pixelated nor dead tree, there is just no need anymore.
I am almost always hooked up to the net, and there are more articles on there, than I could ever wish to read !

There are plenty of good magazines out there still though.

Not just wargaming (although there are a couple; Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy and Wargames Illustrated are probably the best), but plenty covering games, movies, music, politics, any other facet of modern culture or entertainment really.

There are loads of articles out there, and of course some quality examples on the net. But there is also a lot of gak, the culling of some of the lesser magazines has meant that for the most part if you are buying a magazine these days you're paying to read the work of someone who can write well and is being paid for it.

Don't think you can blame the decline of print media entirely on the fall in standard of White Dwarf. It's obviously a part of it, but a reduction in the subject matter, change in culture within GW, and I think a reduction of people who can write well, and are paid to do so, is all attributable to it becoming worth barely a single-poo toilet read.

Perhaps it is a generational perspective thing; I don't know -- but to me, the existence of good free content doesn't diminish the value of good paid content. In other words, just because I can get A for free, doesn't mean I won't pay for B, if I also want it. Sure, there's a ton of great free material of all types on the Internet on almost any subject one can imagine, but that doesn't stop me from buying, for example, a car magazine from a drug store, if it's featuring a car that I might like. Or Popular Mechanics, or the Economist, or...