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I have been looking at the changes to the Cryxian army and there are some things I have noticed that have, for want of a better word, unsettled me.
Now, do not get me wrong. I new that the nerf bat was coming and that it was going to come in hard. Cryx had a stupidly high learning curve but for those that actually stuck with it and did not fall off by the wayside it was more than worth it as you became one of the most powerful factions in Warmachine. When you where learning Cryx you struggled and often lost games but once you knew how they worked you could ace all kinds of opponents and still come back for more.
Or so it was.
MK3 is seeing a major shift from Infantry towards Warjacks which I do feel is a good idea as well, let us face it, steam powered robots are cool. However, this is having some repercussions on the Cryxian army. In the MK3 rule set the Cryx infantry seem to be shifting from anti-jack to anti Infantry. Units that could once reliably damage enemy Warjacks and even wreck them are now more suited to hitting enemy infantry whilst our fast hit-hard-and-run skirmishers have lost their speed and our heavy hitters have lost their defensive rule (stealth) or heavy hitting ability (weapon master). This, when coupled with the defence debuffs, does seem a tad excessive.

Let us review:
Deathripper chassis: These small fast moving arcnodes are now a equivalent point cheaper, yay! O the other hand they have lost a hefty chunk of the defence that was the only thing keeping them alive.
Mechanithralls: Once the premier for a cheap 'Jack wrecking Infantry unit these have lost a point of Pow o their weapon. Not too bad until you remember that this is doubled on the combo attack, meaning that these will now struggle to kill anything heavier than a light Light. And then, as if this was not enough, they lost a hefty chunk of defence meaning that they are now even easier to gun down.
Bile Thralls: These slow, weak and easy to hit units had one bonus; purging. Sadly this has now been nerfed to a mere 8" spray meaning that they are not as powerful as before (Although the narrower arc does make multi purge attacks easier)
Bane Thralls: Cryx's hard hitters. Wonderful until you see that they lost their only source of survivability vs enemy gunlines - Stealth. Stealth was both fluffy and made them hard to shoot. Now they can be gunned down by anyone and everyone before they hit home.
Bane Knights: Forget hitting hard. They lost Weaponmaster
Raiders: Lost several abilities including a point of speed. Forget moving fast and hitting hard, you once again suffer from being shot
Helljacks: Some buffs. I am not sure what this means yet but it sounds good.

So, after this (and these are just the units I use/am interested in) what do you guys think? In a meta that is shifting towards 'Jacks the Cryx seem to the the premier anti infantry faction - is that about right?

The problem with Cryx, is that often, you had to bring a specific list in order to deal with them. When I went to the Welsh Masters, I had to dedicate one of my three lists solely to cryx, which is bad gameplay.

The other problem is that Cryx was a prime example of infantrymachine, which has been kicked in the teeth.

Only time will tell if they have gone too far the other way, but we will find out.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I have been looking at the changes to the Cryxian army and there are some things I have noticed that have, for want of a better word, unsettled me.
Now, do not get me wrong. I new that the nerf bat was coming and that it was going to come in hard. Cryx had a stupidly high learning curve but for those that actually stuck with it and did not fall off by the wayside it was more than worth it as you became one of the most powerful factions in Warmachine. When you where learning Cryx you struggled and often lost games but once you knew how they worked you could ace all kinds of opponents and still come back for more.
Or so it was.

Or else cryx noob took denny1 or 2, skarre 1 or 2 or gaspy2 and steamrolled fellow noobs, making it an extremely unfunny experience. Warmachine is s game where you struggle where you are learning, and that is true for all factions, but cryx offered a high ceiling at low skill levels that was easy to reach, and it only got worse. You didn't learn how to play cryx, you learned how to play against cryx.

 master of ordinance wrote:

MK3 is seeing a major shift from Infantry towards Warjacks which I do feel is a good idea as well, let us face it, steam powered robots are cool. However, this is having some repercussions on the Cryxian army. In the MK3 rule set the Cryx infantry seem to be shifting from anti-jack to anti Infantry. Units that could once reliably damage enemy Warjacks and even wreck them are now more suited to hitting enemy infantry whilst our fast hit-hard-and-run skirmishers have lost their speed and our heavy hitters have lost their defensive rule (stealth) or heavy hitting ability (weapon master). This, when coupled with the defence debuffs, does seem a tad excessive.

In other words, units thst offered an easy button, that could do everything, face any foe and be spammed like crazy now have to work a little bit harder to do the same thing? Boohoo? Welcome to warmachine, and how every other faction plays.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Let us review:
Deathripper chassis: These small fast moving arcnodes are now a equivalent point cheaper, yay! O the other hand they have lost a hefty chunk of the defence that was the only thing keeping them alive.

Still def14, which is pretty solid. Stupid high def stars have generally been taken down a peg across every faction. Cryx are not losing out here. And they're cheap.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Mechanithralls: Once the premier for a cheap 'Jack wrecking Infantry unit these have lost a point of Pow o their weapon. Not too bad until you remember that this is doubled on the combo attack, meaning that these will now struggle to kill anything heavier than a light Light. And then, as if this was not enough, they lost a hefty chunk of defence meaning that they are now even easier to gun down.

Mcthralls were one of those easy to spam units that could be played into anything. Mcthralls were stupid cheap and had ridiculous damage output. Especially coupled with all of cryx' debuffs or skarre's feat. And you could just keep regenerating the damned things. No. Trust me. Nerf bat was well justified.

They're not going to 'struggle' at all. Apply debuff. Or use skarre. They're still perfectly functional and plenty capable.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Bile Thralls: These slow, weak and easy to hit units had one bonus; purging. Sadly this has now been nerfed to a mere 8" spray meaning that they are not as powerful as before (Although the narrower arc does make multi purge attacks easier)

The fact that previously a single bile (let a lone a whole squad) could in effect clear out a third of an enemy army on its own was ridiculous. Not being as powerful as before is a good thing Nerfed to a 'mere' 8" spray is fair. That's what the rest of the factions have been playing with.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Bane Thralls: Cryx's hard hitters. Wonderful until you see that they lost their only source of survivability vs enemy gunlines - Stealth. Stealth was both fluffy and made them hard to shoot. Now they can be gunned down by anyone and everyone before they hit home.

Banes needed the hit.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Bane Knights: Forget hitting hard. They lost Weaponmaster

Powerful charge is a thing. P+s14 murders 90% of the infantry in the game.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Raiders: Lost several abilities including a point of speed. Forget moving fast and hitting hard, you once again suffer from being shot

Raiders were crazy. The fact that thry could run on turn one and jam the opponent in their own deployment zone was a step beyond ridiculous. Oh but they're fragile? Lol lets give them some of the best anti shooting tech available and give them power swell on top of it. Raiders needed looking in to. They got what they deserved.

 master of ordinance wrote:

So, after this (and these are just the units I use/am interested in) what do you guys think? In a meta that is shifting towards 'Jacks the Cryx seem to the the premier anti infantry faction - is that about right?

I think the doom cycle is well and truly spinning like its never spun before. There have been no end of ridiculous knee jerk reactions and hysterics over mk3. According to every faction, they're the worst faction in the game now, and to quote bittersashes on the pp boards:

Current forum prediction is that all MK3 games will end in a no contest. Apparently, everything has been downgraded so hard that all models are simultaneously incapable of harming anything and unable to survive any attack. Or even non-attack.

One guy down my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.

Give it a few weeks. All of this will be forgotten and cryx players will find that cryx wins games just fine

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions I guess. I am not denying that some of the nerfs where needed (hell, I was even making other Cryx players suffer) but I do feel that they went a little overboard with them.
Yes, Mechanithralls where spammable and could be brought back but you needed too as they where also very frail. I do agree that the Def nerf was needed but taking their Pow too seemed over the top. Likewise Bile Thralls could remove half a unit but to do that they had to get there and as slow moving low Def and low Arm infantry they had to be protected on their way in. And six of them cost the same as ten mechanithralls. Bonejacks live and die by their Def stat as their Arm and hit boxes are laughable at best and a single hit from even a Juggernaughts fist will cripple one. But PP have stripped a hefty chunk from the def. Was it needed? I dont know. Will it break them? Time will tell but the portents are not good.

Banethralls. did they really need the hit? Compared to other heavy infantry their armour was not that great and their lack of hit boxes means that a single damaging hit will kill them but thankfully their Stealth ability allowed them to get close to the enemy. Now they will probably take hits from enemy gunlines and die. Likewise, Baneknights now rely upon charging to deal with heavy Warjacks.
Raiders I agree where broken but still, their nerf seems heavy handed. Just slowing them a little and removing that anti shooting ability would have been more than enough.

Anyway, I will wait and see before confirming my suspicions, but I do feel that PP has been heavy handed with my faction.

PS, I suppose I am not your typical Cryxian player. Whilst I do have Deny1 my alternative caster is often a surprise to my opponent: The Witch Coven. Whilst they are not the easiest caster to run I can make them work well.

Cryx is my main faction and I'm supportive of most of this stuff. Yeah, a few units/casters may have been hit pretty hard. But most of it got a much needed rebalancing. Will lists need to be rebuilt and get new models? yeah, but that is every edition change for every game ever. That's a big part of why they are done in the first place.

We'll see how everything plays out come June 10th and we have the full rules in hand and actually get to play some games. The Cryx forums have been full of the doomtrain. I think the vast majority of it is overblown right now. There is a lot of whining to wade thru to get to the few reasonable posts that actually have good info.

In the end there will always be a few better models and a few lesser models. No game this big is going to be perfect. This ain't checkers. But I don't see anything that indicates Cryx as a faction will be weak or oppressed. We still hit hard, still debuff like a ***** and still have some good casters.

But again, until we have all the rules and have had a chance to play and try out some lists everything is conjecture at this point. PP was put out a pretty good product in the past. I don't see why they would **** on everything now. They aren't GW.

 master of ordinance wrote:
but taking their Pow too seemed over the top.

Dude, come on, it's one point of strength. I know that it does make a difference, but it was one freaking point. They're still going to combo strike at POW 20, if they lost combo strike, that would be a little much, but let's be real here, Pow 20 is still strong, especially for a cheap unit

As a cryx player I like all those units getting reduced in power. As well as the cheaper arc nodes (even if they get -1 DEF and -1 Pow). I think Power Up is going to be huge and jacks are going to be great and the Cryx jacks are going to be super fun to play with a free focus. And Warwitch Sirens got better by not being limited to 1 focus per jack.

I really hope they actually succeed in making the game be about jacks and the factions that needed the biggest changes to make that happen were Cryx and Khador. Cryx because the infantry were just crazy and Khador because only a few of the jacks were worth taking. Most Cryx and Khador lists I've seen over the last 18 months have spent as few points on jacks as possible. It needed to change.

I've heard Skorne players saying their faction will be the weakest in MK3. I've heard Protectorate players saying that Protectorate couldn't possibly win in MK3. Circle players lamenting that all of their tricks are gone, and they'll be shot off the board. Troll bloods saying their faction has been decimated by the changes. Legion players throwing their hands up in despair.

I'm just surprised the basically everyone got the short end of the stick, you'd think there had to be an upside *somewhere*.

Or perhaps the Doom Cycle is just in full swing, and this is just panicking because "change!!!" Without a real reference point. Yeah, that seems more likely.

I've seen every faction say that their faction will be weakest in mkIII. We're gonna have a lot of weakest factions...

God forbid people actually wait and try things first, especially when we don't have the full picture of the actual core rules yet. Lots of little changes can add up and changes can take a while to shake out. I don't mind speculation but the amount of doom is ridiculous.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I've seen every faction say that their faction will be weakest in mkIII. We're gonna have a lot of weakest factions...

God forbid people actually wait and try things first, especially when we don't have the full picture of the actual core rules yet. Lots of little changes can add up and changes can take a while to shake out. I don't mind speculation but the amount of doom is ridiculous.

Not much of that on the Retribution board.

As far as we're concerned, we're gonna be the big boys in MK3.

A friend gave me a bunch of ret when I helped him move. I've been meaning to strip it and repaint it. Ret does look good ink MK3.

I think people are under-appreciating what 1" reach and a free focus is going to mean for a lot of warjacks. They see the units that mostly dominated MK2 getting nerfed and fail to see how the basic changes to the rules are making a ton of stuff that rarely saw play better.

Or at least that's how I hope it turns out. It could be that 10-20% of each faction will simply be better than everything else just like in MK2 and after a half year of figuring out the meta, that subset will start dominating play just like it did in MK2, but it'll just be different things. So instead of banes and satyxis being all over the place it'll be something else.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions I guess. I am not denying that some of the nerfs where needed (hell, I was even making other Cryx players suffer) but I do feel that they went a little overboard with them.

No, these nerfs were needed and are perfectly fair overall. They’ve brought cryx back in line. Saying it went ‘overboard’ stinks of entitlement, and to players too used to easy living.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yes, Mechanithralls where spammable and could be brought back but you needed too as they where also very frail.

They didn’t ‘need to’ get that as well. Old mcthralls were a fearless (often tough) 3/5 spammable unit, with multiple attacks, and massive over-the-top damage output in a faction with the ridiculous debuffs (crippling grasp, parasite etc) and feats (pSkarre, Denny1 etc). Just this on its own made them one of the best units in the game. they could casually delete anything in the game with no effort. They had no downsides, trade-offs or requirements for work. the fact that you could respawn them and bring things back fully functional on that same turn on top of everything else was a slap in the face to whoever you were playing. Bringing them back repeatedly was crazy. It was a huge ‘leg up’ on other factions. No other faction could really play that game outside of some CoC builds, shamblers or alexia.

As to being frail – this is warmachine. Pow10s kill most infantry. ‘frail’ is relative.

 master of ordinance wrote:

I do agree that the Def nerf was needed but taking their Pow too seemed over the top.

Utter rubbish. Old Combo strike on a 3/5 spammable/recusrionable unit in a faction with the ridiculous debuffs (crippling grasp, parasite etc) and feats (pSkarre, Denny1 etc) was what was over the top. This isn’t a nerf. This is a unit being put back in line. The fact that you lament this simply shows how skewed the perception of things is in cryx. New Mcthralls will still be capable of getting plenty of work done. They just wont be able to casually delete anything and everything just by looking at them with no downsides or trade offs.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Likewise Bile Thralls could remove half a unit but to do that they had to get there and as slow moving low Def and low Arm infantry they had to be protected on their way in.

Hide them behind the spawning 30 mcthralls? Cryx so often played an ‘unrelenting tide’ game where threat saturation meant that you could get those thralls where they needed to be, especially late game where they can simply obliterate whatever remains.

 master of ordinance wrote:

And six of them cost the same as ten mechanithralls.

no sympathy. Look at what other people pay for their units. For 5pts you get a unit where a single all model can nuke a third of my army. And you have plenty ways of getting them there. Fr 5pta I get kossites. You realise every other faction would kill to get either mcthralls, or biles and would pay well over the price you shrug off and lament and imply is unfair? As though 5pts for what you get is some kind of unfair tax. No. The fact that you compare the cost of a min unit to ten mcthralls and lament it simply shows how skewed the perception of things is in cryx. That’s where the problem is, not with the rebalancing of mk3.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Bone Jacks live and die by their Def stat as their Arm and hit boxes are laughable at best and a single hit from even a Juggernaughts fist will cripple one.

Which they dealt with in previous editions by boosting to hit or using CMAs. Guess what? Folks will still use boosting or CMAs to deal with them. It will even out.

 master of ordinance wrote:

But PP have stripped a hefty chunk from the def. Was it needed? I dont know. Will it break them? Time will tell but the portents are not good.

Yes to the first. No to the second. portents from the doomtrain are hysterical nonsense, and people need to get a grip. Like I said, every forum is spouting this nonsense. Ive seen some truly savage and unneccessary lashing outs at PP, too many cries of ‘the sky is falling’, far too much whining about losing crutch pieces, too much passive aggressive snideneas, far too much ‘I fear change; change is bad, m’kay’ from too many selfish and entitled scrubs, who frankly, need to be slapped in the face with Page 5. None of them have even played a game of mk3 yet. Get off the doomtrain. Def numbers have been reduced across all the factions. I play khador – def 13 is my highest ‘native’ unit defence value on my thug ninjas, outside of eliminators. The vast, vast majority of my units are def12.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Banethralls. did they really need the hit? Compared to other heavy infantry their armour was not that great and their lack of hit boxes means that a single damaging hit will kill them but thankfully their Stealth ability allowed them to get close to the enemy. Now they will probably take hits from enemy gunlines and die

The fact that you ask if they ‘really need the hit’ speaks volumes. Yes is the tl’dr answer. The fact you are not seeing that a unit that was fearless, tough, effective P+S13 weapon masters (in a faction that can drop withering debuffs and brutal feats) could be spammed, had some utterly brutal recursion mechanics thanks to blt, and could get right in people’s faces, often times with no trouble whatsoever speaks volumes. They were an easy button that could casually delete anything in the game with no downsides, trade-offs or requirement of work. They summed up everything that was wrong with cryx, and yes, they had to change. Their armour is still solid. You do realise its better than my iron fangs, right? Their armour is at the high end of a lot of single wound infantry. Infantry has always been squishy when its hit; in this regard banes are just the same as everything else. Now you might lose stuff on the way in? Boohoo. Welcome to the game the rest of us have been playing for five years. Now you have to face the same problems as every other faction in getting units to axe to face range.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Likewise, Baneknights now rely upon charging to deal with heavy Warjacks.

I agree. They should be able to just stand there and casually delete anything and everything in the game with no effort (sarcasm). Honestly – boohoo? Suck it up - Pretty much every faction relies upon charging to do damage to warjacks. Why should yours be any different? Please drop the entitled cryx player attitude.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Raiders I agree where broken but still, their nerf seems heavy handed. Just slowing them a little and removing that anti shooting ability would have been more than enough.

So basically, you want lip service to the idea of 'rebalancing'. Throw a bone to the other factions, but essentially leave all of cryx's +1 units as +1 units. No.
Well, they did slow them a little and removed their anti shooting tech. As above, raiders were a ridiculous unit that could do far, far too much, far, far too easily, with no trade-offs, downsides or requirement of work. Similarly, dealing with them requires such specific list tailoring that it very much verged in 'not fun'.

New Raiders are fine. They’ll still cause plenty havoc. Especially with gang.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Anyway, I will wait and see before confirming my suspicions, but I do feel that PP has been heavy handed with my faction.

Cryx needed ‘heavy handed’ treatment. That’s the simple truth. If it feels ‘heavy handed’ its only because cryx units were too far out in front, and cryx players are too used to having things too easy for too long, and along with legion, theirs is the faction had to be slapped down the most to be brought into line with everyone else and now they’re grumbling that now they have to play on the same level as everyone else. I will shed no tears.

 master of ordinance wrote:

PS, I suppose I am not your typical Cryxian player. Whilst I do have Deny1 my alternative caster is often a surprise to my opponent: The Witch Coven. Whilst they are not the easiest caster to run I can make them work well.

Witch coven are solid. And always have been.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Banethralls. did they really need the hit? Compared to other heavy infantry their armour was not that great and their lack of hit boxes means that a single damaging hit will kill them but thankfully their Stealth ability allowed them to get close to the enemy. Now they will probably take hits from enemy gunlines and die. Likewise, Baneknights now rely upon charging to deal with heavy Warjacks.

Banes are elite infantry not heavy infantry, and they follow the same laws as other elite infantry. This coupled with cryx warcaster buffs and debuffs.

It seems a lot of the Cryxian armor cracking infantry has been slowed down or nerf batted a bit.

Which should be just fine, considering all the debuffs and extra jacks we'll be able to field. Cryx has always been about threat diversification, and we will continue to be that way with actual 'jack help for once.

Personally, I'll still have my Banes with Stealth, because I main Goreshade1. I think the nerfs are fair (although some of my favourite models were hit HARD, Bane Warriors and Deathjack) and everything we had before is still solid. My real problem with the changes is how little they buffed our worse units. I mean, look at Cygnar for an example, they got nerfs to what was necessary, but all their 'mediocre' choices got buffed massively. Cryx stuff? Stayed mostly the same

 Rygnan wrote:
Personally, I'll still have my Banes with Stealth, because I main Goreshade1. I think the nerfs are fair (although some of my favourite models were hit HARD, Bane Warriors and Deathjack) and everything we had before is still solid. My real problem with the changes is how little they buffed our worse units. I mean, look at Cygnar for an example, they got nerfs to what was necessary, but all their 'mediocre' choices got buffed massively. Cryx stuff? Stayed mostly the same

As a cygnar player I went into the edition changed expecting(and dare I say it hoping) for a few of those nerfs. But bringing up the 'medicore' choices was necessary. The big complaint with Cygnar players through most of MKII was we had a couple of amazing A/S tier models/units, and then everything else was kinda meh and vastly overshadowed by the Mercenary options. By bringing in most of our good buffs to be Friendly Faction only, and bringing up the models that were cute but you never saw played; hopefully 'Mercnar' will be a thing of the past.

Sure a few of the nerfs suck(like the B13), and I'm not a big fan of a couple of the buffs(ie Sloan might be this editions Ravyn/Lylyth2 which is no fun). But Overall I'm happy with the changes, nerfs and all. One buff that I'm not quite sure if it's to strong or not is the Trencher Scattergunner WA, who has Spray 8 guns with Anatomical Precision.

Isn't anatomical precision melee? Or has that changed across eds

You might be right, I think I may have misread the card initially.

 jeratoll wrote:
You might be right, I think I may have misread the card initially.

I think the guy himself just had AP, which I think they had to begin with

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I've seen every faction say that their faction will be weakest in mkIII. We're gonna have a lot of weakest factions...

God forbid people actually wait and try things first, especially when we don't have the full picture of the actual core rules yet. Lots of little changes can add up and changes can take a while to shake out. I don't mind speculation but the amount of doom is ridiculous.

Not much of that on the Retribution board.

As far as we're concerned, we're gonna be the big boys in MK3.

Cygnar is similar. Most players I have talked to say something like "What needed nerfing was nerfed everything else was modestly buffed".

 jeratoll wrote:

 Rygnan wrote:
Personally, I'll still have my Banes with Stealth, because I main Goreshade1. I think the nerfs are fair (although some of my favourite models were hit HARD, Bane Warriors and Deathjack) and everything we had before is still solid. My real problem with the changes is how little they buffed our worse units. I mean, look at Cygnar for an example, they got nerfs to what was necessary, but all their 'mediocre' choices got buffed massively. Cryx stuff? Stayed mostly the same

As a cygnar player I went into the edition changed expecting(and dare I say it hoping) for a few of those nerfs. But bringing up the 'medicore' choices was necessary. The big complaint with Cygnar players through most of MKII was we had a couple of amazing A/S tier models/units, and then everything else was kinda meh and vastly overshadowed by the Mercenary options. By bringing in most of our good buffs to be Friendly Faction only, and bringing up the models that were cute but you never saw played; hopefully 'Mercnar' will be a thing of the past.

Sure a few of the nerfs suck(like the B13), and I'm not a big fan of a couple of the buffs(ie Sloan might be this editions Ravyn/Lylyth2 which is no fun). But Overall I'm happy with the changes, nerfs and all. One buff that I'm not quite sure if it's to strong or not is the Trencher Scattergunner WA, who has Spray 8 guns with Anatomical Precision.

I'm not saying anything against Cygnar, and I absolutely agree they shouldn't be overshadowed by Mercenaries, but I just think some of the Cryx units that you never see should've gotten a buff. For example, I've never heard of anyone using Black Ogrun or Bloodgorgers, and they barely changed in Mk3. What's to make us take them now, even with the nerfs to other units? I still see nothing they have that I can't do with something else, other than have large based infantry.

Also to everyone here, I am certainly not complaining about these nerfs, I just think that PP could've been a bit more generous on the 'low tier' units, not only for Cryx but for everyone

 Rygnan wrote:

I'm not saying anything against Cygnar, and I absolutely agree they shouldn't be overshadowed by Mercenaries, but I just think some of the Cryx units that you never see should've gotten a buff. For example, I've never heard of anyone using Black Ogrun or Bloodgorgers, and they barely changed in Mk3. What's to make us take them now, even with the nerfs to other units? I still see nothing they have that I can't do with something else, other than have large based infantry.

Also to everyone here, I am certainly not complaining about these nerfs, I just think that PP could've been a bit more generous on the 'low tier' units, not only for Cryx but for everyone

Well, to be fair, now that to obvious crutches have been taken down a notch there will be a viable niche for those other units. And don't underestimate the value of multiple wounds for example for the ogrun in a game with more and more single wound infantry hate.

Okay...well now Deadnight has gotten that out of his system...

I don't think we can tell how balanced the buffs and nerfs are at this point. Yes, we know many of the rules changes but until we have played a few games it is tricky to tell just how the leaves will fall.

There do seem to have been some oddities in what got nerfed or buffed across several factions. For example, Skorne players are scratching their heads over the Rhinodon and Archidon. - models that weren't that popular and now seem to have ''budget choice'' as their only redeeming feature.

Meanwhile there seem to be a number of Cygnar players chuckling evilly at Caine's 'rebalancing'.

I guess we'll see.

Well, I await the MKIII release with trepidation and curiosity.
And shiny things syndrome - that new starter set has more for my Cryx AND some Cygnar stuff too *drools*.

One thing i'll miss with Denny is that her crippling grasp doesn't prevent charges anymore.

That was a pretty nice safety net for an intermittent player like me. I'd see a unit I wasn't sure of and I'd run a bonejack up to arc and cripple it.

It was probably a miserable thing to be on the end of. I guess any debuff is, but crippling grasp was doubly so.

 obsidianaura wrote:
One thing i'll miss with Denny is that her crippling grasp doesn't prevent charges anymore.

That was a pretty nice safety net for an intermittent player like me. I'd see a unit I wasn't sure of and I'd run a bonejack up to arc and cripple it.

It was probably a miserable thing to be on the end of. I guess any debuff is, but crippling grasp was doubly so.

Oooh yeah, it took your average melee unit and gave it a threat range of about 3.5", and halved its damage output from just the -Spd/no charging aspect alone, before the rest of the debut was applied. It was one of those spells which made it a requirement, not a want, to have upkeep removal in a list. This is way way fairer, but still good enough that it's well worth casting.

Crippling grasp was such a nasty spell to be on the receiving end off. It would not have been such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that in Cryx land, Arc nodes grow on chickens. If it was in Khador for instant, it would not have been so bad.

It was such a powerful spell after getting rid of the charge everything else was a bonus, and so easily fired off where you wanted it.

I tried other casters but always came back to Denny. Possibly why I burned out on Warmachine.

I'm looking forward to the shake up of things to be honest.

One spell I've always hated chain lightning an I've got my fingers crossed for some kind of reduction in its scope. I'd like a drop by 2 POW every hop or something.

Chain Lightning got a nerf. It's 1d3 bounces instead of 1d6. Which is actually a humongous nerf.

 Killionaire wrote:
Chain Lightning got a nerf. It's 1d3 bounces instead of 1d6. Which is actually a humongous nerf.

Blimey!

That's literally halved its power