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2016/06/12 21:17:44
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
Yes, I think 10 points very well worth the additional attack. Single Wolf Claws would save 20-30 points ..that's bearable. If it's not a fist or a hammer, there should be at least 3 attacks.
A fusion of both lists would be nice: cutting down Firehowlers and Wyrdstorm, no Stormfang and no Trikes, but Deathpack with minimal Grey Hunters and pack of three Thunderwolves. Wolfkin as auxiliary. This seems best. The list is a decent mix of models I own and hasn't got too much models to buy I'd probably ditch if it doesn't work out. Like Wolves and Thunderwolves, they are always usable, at least one Drop Pod is never a bad to own and I simply like Marine Bikers. My meta isn't too soft but then it also doesn't entirely consist of maxed out Eldar and Tau.
Well.
..are you actually allowed to take Relics of the Great Wolf in Deathpack or Wolf Claw Strike Force?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/13 17:14:49
For the Wolftime!
2016/06/26 23:05:52
Subject: Re:[1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force?
Long fangs are a waste. I'll assume they'll be objective campers, because that's their only use from what I see. Make it blood claws, grey hunters, or wolf scouts with cloaks and rifles and save some points. Reinvest in more upgrades/models.
Once again, we march to war, for Victory or Death!
Never wake yourself at night, unless you are spying on your enemy or looking for a place to relieve yourself. - The Poetic Edda
2k 3k 100 Vostroyan Firstborn 1k 1.25 k
2016/06/27 02:52:58
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
I like this final list here at your final post, but that id go Iron Priests and less Long Fangs. WGBL too, for points. Go helm on a ML2 so you can cast both formation power and also living lightning, essentially 7d6 w/ helm
I'm fond of giving TWC each a weapon but that's just me
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 02:53:22
2016/06/27 04:13:14
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
Yes, the Long Fangs are to hold objectives. They are five points cheaper than Grey Hunters and five points more expensive than Blood Claws. I like about them that they do more than just sit there, waving their fists at the enemy. Maybe add scouts and reducing them to two packs. Or cutting them as a whole. They are a first blood liability after all.
ML2 on the Helm Priest, yes you are right!
I didn't field Thunderwolf Cavalry yet, but I expect them to be high on the target priority, they are basically meat shields for the lord. If they survive ..rending attacks at S5 isn't shabby. I see no real need for additional weapons at this unit size.
WGBL instead of Lord? Wielding the Krakenbone Sword and Shield that's almost 100 points less. Hm, but then also 2 attacks less. I'm even thinking about a hammer instead of a fist for a true challenge monster. Guess I'll try both before glueing the arms.
What I'm still uncertain about is if I should get a drop pod instead of Wulfen and fill it with 6-7 combi-plasma carrying Wolf Guard. If I go first they likely score first blood instead of the Long Fangs just handing first blood over.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 04:14:13
For the Wolftime!
2016/06/28 04:43:36
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
Wulfen are so amazing. And so fun.
A grenade, in my experiences
Wolf Guard dropping Plasma at 7 is where I like it, for them, too. They aren't abso-sassins, meaning they won't -eliminate- all that which stands against them... but they deploy that assassination effect and leave the heaviest AP for the TH's to tackle.
Once spent, they're CC-stat marines with their basic statelines (WS5 with CotGW). A threat that can't be avoided, can't be nuetralized. For a price: in pts.
Solid. Heavy. Good tho. I'd employ them as a scalpal - surgically necessary, otherwise wholly unnecessary.
LF first blood hurts. Just how many games were a point away from tie/win?
Squishy, tho far ranged, for a load of pts in trade. I always feel a bit squeemish. I do remember 3rd ed days, when two teams were amazingly effective. Today, I could focus fire almost offhandedly at stuff like them. (Tastey morsels to IC's charging upfield, for my games hehe).
I've looked long and hard at the Lord vs WGBL... were it i4 or i5, I'd pay heavily for i5. Such awesome, much wow.
That's not the case tho.
We get an attack, a wound, and +1 WS... for 50pts. I think of WG again: surgical importance, ok. Typically, will that do any better - than say an additional typhoon/melta speeder? Than a Lone Wolf w/ Chainfist in Terminator armour?
Even 100pts can do so much! Shave a touch more and it's an Iron Priest on TWC mount. Or a ML2 Helm'd Rune Priest. Or a vindicator, for those who prefer
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've seen TWC be amazing when given tasks they can readily chew through.
A 3 man squad, one of them a character wielding SS, all with Wolf Claw, and some IC mounted/biked thrown in (Iron Priest and Cyberwolves?)... wrecks anything.
I had them all game backfield versus a drop style army, wiping unit after unit turn after turn.
The IC rolls 2+ LOSir's, to the character 6" away for SS or to a Cyberwolf if instant death, and tanks massed light shots til low on wounds. Thunderhammer cracks anything, also gains rend cuz of wolf mount xD
300pts for 4 Wolves, an IP, and 3 Cav with SS leader. I personally make it 360 with Wolf Claws on each. A bit heavy, but able to chew through Command Squads like wet paper. High Impact to eliminate standard units (nonStars) in a single phase of CC and move on to other targets asap. To take down Stars, prep surface area first (haha) using shooting and mixing a couple more IC's to the squad, and of course what needs be done if possible to counter said Star, and you shouldn't have any issues xD
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/28 13:16:58
2016/06/28 18:32:57
Subject: Re:[1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
Hmm hmm hmm ..this all makes sense. I usually lose my games. Not only because of my army but also because I had a long break since 3rd edition and I still make a lot of mistakes. Of maybe seven games I played so far I won two. Versus Deathwing and Harlequins. In the case of Harlies the Long Fangs were actually one of the best choices and did most of the work. (Next to an Militarum Tempestus Liutenant killing off a Solitaire with his Hot-shot laspistol.) But with each game I am learning to use and build my armies better and appropriate to the new environment.
Well.
Does this look like an army of maximum Space Wolf feth to you?
I know what you mean about losing games, I had a rough start with 7th when coming from 5th. I'm doing better now, having learned when to hide and when ti charge. I don't like shooting in this very shooting edition. I think its over valued. I also think cc is undervalued.
Pros for CC:
- no jinking
- no running away
- hiding from shooting
- challenging out the value of other units
- having models with ap2 is easy and cheap, as tho they had "Assault 4" as the weapons profile rather than "Heavy 1"
- objectives capturing
- multi unit engagememt
- additional movement phase via charge
- typically units don't have cc profiles (except perhaps their characters, which are Challenged)
- owner of models choose where wounds allocate
- base to base tricks (shenanigans) force wounds on particular models
Need I say more? (Cuz I can haha)
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a side note, sometimes models make the difference.
Its amazing what a "tac squad" can accomplish in a game literally standing around.
Scouts w/ cloaks in ruins attract so much attention! Haha its hilarious! Our scouts used to be the beez kneez, now they pale in comparison to others scouts... but the concept definitely applies.
A blood claw squad, for example, burned a turn of shooting from a Kniggit - rather than my wulfen getting pwnd.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/05 22:14:49
2016/07/07 09:20:14
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
I know what you mean about losing games, I had a rough start with 7th when coming from 5th. I'm doing better now, having learned when to hide and when ti charge. I don't like shooting in this very shooting edition. I think its over valued. I also think cc is undervalued.
Pros for CC:
- no jinking
- no running away
- hiding from shooting
- challenging out the value of other units
- having models with ap2 is easy and cheap, as tho they had "Assault 4" as the weapons profile rather than "Heavy 1"
- objectives capturing
- multi unit engagememt
- additional movement phase via charge
- typically units don't have cc profiles (except perhaps their characters, which are Challenged)
- owner of models choose where wounds allocate
- base to base tricks (shenanigans) force wounds on particular models
Need I say more? (Cuz I can haha)
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a side note, sometimes models make the difference.
Its amazing what a "tac squad" can accomplish in a game literally standing around.
Scouts w/ cloaks in ruins attract so much attention! Haha its hilarious! Our scouts used to be the beez kneez, now they pale in comparison to others scouts... but the concept definitely applies.
A blood claw squad, for example, burned a turn of shooting from a Kniggit - rather than my wulfen getting pwnd.
To add a bit to this sentiment work on distancing and learning what can and can't reach combat. If you're going to be trying for close combat you really need to have every available distance stored so that you don't just plow through units on the turn you charged and wind up with units in a shooting gallery. Furious Charge is great for putting vehicles down but can be a right pain in the butt when you want to be hiding in melee during your opponent's shooting phase.
Don't write off the Long Fangs too early, I've actually been using a bit of a strange loadout for mine due to an uprise in MSU speed bumps and tarpit tactics in my area. I take a squad of four, plus the ancient equip the Ancient with a Flamer and use the rest like melee Grey Hunters. The reason this works is the Ancient splitfires and hopefully blows a hole in unit coherency with the Flamer, the Long Fangs then frag and Bolt Pistol the unit behind and charge them. It kind of comes apart if you can't open the hole with the Flamer but thankfully speed bump units are usually cheap and easily killed and stretched thin to make the blockade.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2016/07/07 15:02:39
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
Huh! Wow! As long as you pistol up "as the unit" towards your charged target, that's neato!
*pulls open codex with a smile*
I go Iron Wolves (in lists, sadly that noone will comment on here in Dakka) and the LF unit is barebones and considered a tax, altho a handy double-unit w/ pod through scoring linebreaker and other objectives based purposes later in the game(as well as fulfilling the 3rd pod, and Transport Capacity for the IW restrictions).
Ima consider shifting some points around now, finding a useful purpose in this way for dealing with tiny msu squads and mostly-killed units
Automatically Appended Next Post: A thought:
We're able to have CC weapons on the Ancient, and also grab a Pack Leader too w/ another option for CC weapons...
There's such thing as too much... wonder where there'd be a balance. Both the Ancient and also the Pack Leader have 2 base attacks on their profiles... hmmm
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/07 15:41:17
2016/07/07 16:44:57
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
MekLeN wrote:Huh! Wow! As long as you pistol up "as the unit" towards your charged target, that's neato!
*pulls open codex with a smile*
I go Iron Wolves (in lists, sadly that noone will comment on here in Dakka) and the LF unit is barebones and considered a tax, altho a handy double-unit w/ pod through scoring linebreaker and other objectives based purposes later in the game(as well as fulfilling the 3rd pod, and Transport Capacity for the IW restrictions).
Ima consider shifting some points around now, finding a useful purpose in this way for dealing with tiny msu squads and mostly-killed units
Automatically Appended Next Post: A thought:
We're able to have CC weapons on the Ancient, and also grab a Pack Leader too w/ another option for CC weapons...
There's such thing as too much... wonder where there'd be a balance. Both the Ancient and also the Pack Leader have 2 base attacks on their profiles... hmmm
I must have missed your post because the Iron Wolves are the Company I use in 1850 point matches, small base requirements and free heavy artillery. There's not much to discuss about the Iron Wolves, their special rules are pretty straight forward and have no real drawback, boring too in a way - I use them as a secondary formation detachment to get around the need for auxiliaries - I drop the Grey Hunters and replace them with land Speeders kitted out for one Melta and Missiles and two Heavy Bolter and Missiles. Buy Drop Pods and get Deathwind Launchers and Locator Beacons for two squads of Blood Claws, a Razorback with an AC and all the freebie upgrades for the Long Fangs.
MekLeN wrote:Huh! Wow! As long as you pistol up "as the unit" towards your charged target, that's neato!
*pulls open codex with a smile*
I go Iron Wolves (in lists, sadly that noone will comment on here in Dakka) and the LF unit is barebones and considered a tax, altho a handy double-unit w/ pod through scoring linebreaker and other objectives based purposes later in the game(as well as fulfilling the 3rd pod, and Transport Capacity for the IW restrictions).
Ima consider shifting some points around now, finding a useful purpose in this way for dealing with tiny msu squads and mostly-killed units
Automatically Appended Next Post: A thought:
We're able to have CC weapons on the Ancient, and also grab a Pack Leader too w/ another option for CC weapons...
There's such thing as too much... wonder where there'd be a balance. Both the Ancient and also the Pack Leader have 2 base attacks on their profiles... hmmm
Krakendoom wrote:This is an interesting idea Dakka Wolf. I'll probably try out some pseudo Las-Plas tacs or something like it.
It's an idea that doesn't get its full benefits if stuff doesn't die to the Flamer but hopefully you have some long-range business that can help widen the hole. If not you still get to lob a Frag Grenade and fire some Bolt Pistols into another unit.
Pseudo Las Plas? I gotta hear this.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2016/07/08 04:51:40
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
I could kiss you guys!
The WG pack leader with a combi-flamer is the final piece to the unit! Split Fire drops first template, if the line doesn't break unit declares second target and WG with combi-flamer puts flame template over both units. I didn't target the first unit twice they just got caught under the template.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2016/07/08 07:45:15
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
DakkaWolf:
I definitely see merit. Ima also play on this, thanks a bunch!
Krakendoom wrote: 170 pts:
Pack Leader /TDA, Storm shield
Ancient /Plasma gun
2x Long Fang /Lascannon
2x Long Fang /Bolter
Worth a try? I think so. Next wednesday I'll give it a shot.
I've ran Grey Hunter squads, a Rune Priest thrown in, with a TDA pack leader and SS with combi-plasma added to a Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol from the squad too. 5x Plasma shots + Living Lightning, for a handful of points. Very handy in a pod.
And yes, it tanks well enough - but in all honesty, not toooo much? I've found myself rolling 1's lol to save, so stings when that happens, but all the same the threat alone is a mighty footprint. And unlike alot of armies SW have serious asthetics going on, so TDA looks awesome!
To field them with Lascannons seems a solid thing, splitfire being a handy tool (combi-flamer upon dropping, then shooting two LasC at whatever else). Not too pricey in all honesty. Sigh... I feel on the fence about Dev/LF squads, but that may be my gaming group meta
2016/07/08 14:32:51
Subject: [1500] - Wolves on Bikes - Deathpack+CotGW or Firehowlers Strike Force? +++ CotGW + Wyrdstorm it is!
