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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

This is a simple question, I suspect, but I think it's one I have been doing wrong.

How many attacks does a deff dread get?

If memory serves, it has 3 base attacks.

Its base wargear is 2x close combat weapons, with the option of adding two more. Lets consider a deff dread with 4x close combat weapons.

So, it has 3 base. Now, I always thought that because it has 2x CCWs base, I thought that bonus was included in the unit profile. But I suspect that may not be correct.

Walkers, unlike infantry, get an extra attack for each weapon past 2. So, 3 base, plus 1 for both the third and fourth close combat weapon. Total of 5, 6 on the charge.

Should it be 6 base, 7 on the charge, because the +1 bonus for having 2 base CCWs is not included in the base profile?

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Executing Exarch






Bonus attacks for having a pair of weapons is not included in the base profile (page 49 for reference) - have a look at an Assault Marine for example - comes with BP & CCW, but only has 1 Attack on his profile.

So your 4xCCW Deff Dread is 3, plus one for the second CCW, plus one for the third, plus one for the fourth = 6 attacks, 7 on the charge.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






 Quanar wrote:
Bonus attacks for having a pair of weapons is not included in the base profile (page 49 for reference) - have a look at an Assault Marine for example - comes with BP & CCW, but only has 1 Attack on his profile.

So your 4xCCW Deff Dread is 3, plus one for the second CCW, plus one for the third, plus one for the fourth = 6 attacks, 7 on the charge.


This is the right way to play it I believe - the second Power Klaw the Deff Dread comes automatically equipped with isn't taken into account for the unit's profile.

Now if we're very fortunate (I'm sure we won't be, sadly) these codex specific FAQ's might increase the base profile to be 4 attacks like Space Marine Dreadnoughts. It wouldn't exactly be a huge boon for the Deff Dread but I have my fingers crossed.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

I guess what I was thinking was - take the space marine. he comes with the BP&CCW, but the bonus attack isn't included in the base profile, because he can swap one weapon for a bolter, and would consequently lose the bonus attack, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in the base profile, because he could lose it.

But in the case of a deff dread, it can never have fewer than 2x CCWs, so I thought it would be included. But yeah, it doesn't work that way on anything else. I guess I've just been doing wrong for years.

Good to know!


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

The Ork Deff Dread is one of those models where GW keeps screwing up the FAQs because they don't know their own rules. In previous editions this topic came up, and GW FAQed it that the 2-close combat weapons the Deff dread came with were included in the profile (despite what the rulebook stated).


At least it wasn't as bad at the 4th edition Tyranid FAQ. They stated that Carnifex's didn't take instinctive behavior test because, and I quote, "Why would they, monstrous creatures don't take leadership tests." Um.... WTF? monstrous creatures had no immunity to leadership tests.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/16 09:41:27


 
   
Made in us
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




Bodt

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I guess what I was thinking was - take the space marine. he comes with the BP&CCW, but the bonus attack isn't included in the base profile, because he can swap one weapon for a bolter, and would consequently lose the bonus attack, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in the base profile, because he could lose it.

But in the case of a deff dread, it can never have fewer than 2x CCWs, so I thought it would be included. But yeah, it doesn't work that way on anything else. I guess I've just been doing wrong for years.

Good to know!


Kinda unrelated, but there are some instances where they do include bonus attacks in the profile. The Leviathan Dreadnought in the Horus Heresy books comes stock with 2 Siege Claw CCWs and 4 attacks on the profile. The entry specifically states that these are included, and for every CCW you swap for a gun you lose an attack. It's pretty silly, honestly, and it's FW writing so it's not the same, but there is a precedent for that ridiculousness.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




Forgeworld routinely include additional attacks. Main GW I cant think of an example.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Forge world still write in the old conventions, where any extra bonuses were automatically included in the profile. GW use to do this in pre-5th edition codexes. The most notable one I can think of was anything with Daemonic Gifts in the 3.5 CSM codex; they explicitly stated all of the bonuses were included if the gifts (which can modify the profile) was already included in the base wargear.

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Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

 cuda1179 wrote:
The Ork Deff Dread is one of those models where GW keeps screwing up the FAQs because they don't know their own rules. In previous editions this topic came up, and GW FAQed it that the 2-close combat weapons the Deff dread came with were included in the profile (despite what the rulebook stated).


At least it wasn't as bad at the 4th edition Tyranid FAQ. They stated that Carnifex's didn't take instinctive behavior test because, and I quote, "Why would they, monstrous creatures don't take leadership tests." Um.... WTF? monstrous creatures had no immunity to leadership tests.


I started in late 5th.......maybe someone told me way back when I started that they were included, and perhaps they were FAQd to be so, and I never thought about it again.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
 
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