Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How would people here go about adding more diversity to the 40k universe. I hear things about female space marines need to be added in. I'm personally not too bothered about that as it currently doesn't exist in the fluff. I get that maybe it should amd feel free to discuss it. However I do believe that distinctly female options should be made for Guard and Tau. Both of these have female warriors in the fluff yet not properly represented (at least with gw minis) on the table.

It's your toy soldiers do what you want. There are a number of third party companies that make parts to customize your army, you don't have to wait for GW to release bits.

More Xenos -- currently we have:

Green humanoids.
Metallic humanoids.
Blue humanoids.
Pointy-eared humanoids (of three varieties).
Nomnomnom non-humanoids (the only non-humanoid Xenos).

We really, really need more Xenos that aren't humanoid.

I'd like to see GW make some female heads for Guardsmen, though It'd be great to see any new infantry models for the Guard. The current ones are a little.... lacking to say the least

This topic has already been discussed 564738293456278903872 times, here on Dakka.

I'd like to see female IG, Lieutenant Mira was great in Space Marine and it'd brilliant to have a character like her on the tabletop.

More Xenos in general would nice, maybe something from the Ghoul Stars, or even some crazy machines from the Dark Age of Technology that are emerging out of some obscure bit of space.

I don't like the notion of female Space Marines though. The Imperium is regressive, brutalized and archaic, pretty much a Holy Roman Empire in space. I quite enjoy the historical vibe, the Imperium's struggle with Chaos is not too unlike the religious wars caused by the Reformation in early modern Europe. Space Marines are monastic orders as much as super soldiers, they already have a female analogue in SoB (even if the SoB are languishing on the verge of squatdom).

 Hawky wrote:
This topic has already been discussed 564738293456278903872 times, here on Dakka.

Not everyone was here for those discussions.

A race of eldritch mind-controlling aliens. That don't use or serve the warp, please.

Oh, and black dewds. And wimminz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A race of battle-suit wearing squid-aliens. They don't have a centralised brain, but are like a hyper-evolved cephalopod, what with a lack of emotions, and limbs that act of their own accord. Just something that is far removed from humans.

The tau already have a female HQ (Shadowsun). I think the only visible difference between male and females is the slit on their foreheads: male have a vertical slit, while females have a "reversed Y" (but I'm not sure about that, maybe someone more familiar with the tau fluff could confirm).
Most tau units have suits or helmets, but some firewarriors have an exposed face, and the sprue does contain faces with that "reversed Y" slit.

Eldars have plenty of females minis. For instance, the harlequin jetbikes are 50/50 male/female, the shadowseer is female only, the troupes must be assembled with 2 or 3 females (out of 6 figurines).

I want to see female guard models but most races are decently gender diverse

Sisters is a whole army of woman
Tau have female minis and the difference between the two isn't as pronounced as humans
Eldar of all varieties have a nice balance between male and female
Orks are monosexual
Necrons are monosexual in physical features
Tyranids are (not even going to try and touch this one)

That leaves marines which would require a massive retcon and that's not something I'm willing to support.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I want to see female guard models but most races are decently gender diverse

Sisters is a whole army of woman
Tau have female minis and the difference between the two isn't as pronounced as humans
Eldar of all varieties have a nice balance between male and female
Orks are monosexual
Necrons are monosexual in physical features
Tyranids are (not even going to try and touch this one)

That leaves marines which would require a massive retcon and that's not something I'm willing to support.

This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

This is an easily baited topic if I ever saw one.

 Chute82 wrote:
It's your toy soldiers do what you want. There are a number of third party companies that make parts to customize your army, you don't have to wait for GW to release bits.

I do if I ever want to use those models at an official GW store. Which is where I'd be playing if I end up playing anywhere but at home.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

I think the point was that space marines themselves don't need to be 'diversified' when GW made the SoB. Rather than retcon space marine fluff so that female space marines can excist GW should actually support the female faction that they created.

Personally I'd like to see Chaos varied a bit more. It's been so heavily codified into the 4 gods only, and apparently all working together most of the time now, that Chaos really feels quite bland. Where are the innumerable smaller Warp entities? Where are all the big scary warp monsters that eat spaceships? We have some non-dedicated units like Furies, but they're crappy afterthoughts. Get some more animosity in there between the rival gods and get some more unaligned units in.

Likewise, it'd be interesting to see more of the smaller Xenos races like the Hrud or Enslavers.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
It's your toy soldiers do what you want. There are a number of third party companies that make parts to customize your army, you don't have to wait for GW to release bits.

I do if I ever want to use those models at an official GW store. Which is where I'd be playing if I end up playing anywhere but at home.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

No, but it is a good example of that fact that no one actually cares about diversity in the game.

Wimminz space marines added, not even supported anymore.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

I think the point was that space marines themselves don't need to be 'diversified' when GW made the SoB. Rather than retcon space marine fluff so that female space marines can excist GW should actually support the female faction that they created.

I agree, but they're not and have never shown any intention to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
No, but it is a good example of that fact that no one actually cares about diversity in the game.

Wimminz space marines added, not even supported anymore.

Except the people asking for it, you mean?

They really could add more guard regiments again.

they had a gak ton of variants.

hell i think there was one of only women for those we are so inclined.

all the minor xeno in wd mini codexes could be fine too.

 Pouncey wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

I think the point was that space marines themselves don't need to be 'diversified' when GW made the SoB. Rather than retcon space marine fluff so that female space marines can excist GW should actually support the female faction that they created.

I agree, but they're not and have never shown any intention to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
No, but it is a good example of that fact that no one actually cares about diversity in the game.

Wimminz space marines added, not even supported anymore.

Except the people asking for it, you mean?

you mean the almost non existent group lol, we went over this in the other thread. Even when Dakka tried to organize a 'protest' where like 50~100 people bought the sisters models then wrote GW saying they wanted more, GW did not give a crap.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
They really could add more guard regiments again.

they had a gak ton of variants.

hell i think there was one of only women for those we are so inclined.

all the minor xeno in wd mini codexes could be fine too.

I want more Lt Mira's Best 40k waifu

The last thing 40k needs is more "diversity". Focus on satisfying the current demographic before you start pissing everyone off by saying "nvm lol anyone can be space marines k thx".

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
The last thing 40k needs is more "diversity". Focus on satisfying the current demographic before you start pissing everyone off by saying "nvm lol anyone can be space marines k thx".

Uhh, Overwatch is a video game with a degree of diversity in its cast that many people consider to be gratuitous.

It sold 15 million copies in under 4 months.

 Pouncey wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
The last thing 40k needs is more "diversity". Focus on satisfying the current demographic before you start pissing everyone off by saying "nvm lol anyone can be space marines k thx".

Uhh, Overwatch is a video game with a degree of diversity in its cast that many people consider to be gratuitous.

It sold 15 million copies in under 4 months.

To be fair

overwatch doesn't have you buy a 40 dollar book, and 3-500$ worth of miniatures to play each character

 Pouncey wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
The last thing 40k needs is more "diversity". Focus on satisfying the current demographic before you start pissing everyone off by saying "nvm lol anyone can be space marines k thx".

Uhh, Overwatch is a video game with a degree of diversity in its cast that many people consider to be gratuitous.

It sold 15 million copies in under 4 months.

What does overwatch have to do with it, lol cant compare one to the other.

Overwatches lore accomodated for it, it was heros and soldiers from all over the globe, blizzard could do it.

40k has had established lore for over 20 years.

Changing lore for changes sake is a bad idea, See AoS.

More diversity means more people playing the game. Even putting the obvious social implications totally aside, it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that making your game more diverse means more people will play it. That means more money in GWs pocket which means a better game for everyone overall.

There is literally zero negative impact to GW or fans if they make the game more diverse.

Qlanth wrote:
More diversity means more people playing the game. Even putting the obvious social implications totally aside, it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that making your game more diverse means more people will play it. That means more money in GWs pocket which means a better game for everyone overall.

There is literally zero negative impact to GW or fans if they make the game more diverse.

In a game where the players can make their models how every they want, and create any chapter, regiment, band, ect ect ect they want.

The game does not need forced diversity, the game is already diverse through the player base, that does not need to be force represented in the game. No one likes when that kinda stuff is shoe horned into a game.

I would like to see female options for guard that said, like i said, LT Mira, my 40k waifu.

Well, like most players I would be more than happy with more diversity in the models available to us for each armies. It would indeed be nice to have women guardsmen or Scions, new revamped SoB, but while we talk about diversity, we might as well talk about xenos representation. I think we could benefit from more xenos. Maybe GW could produce a «Dogs of War» style expension with new xenos to serve as auxilary for various factions and maybe expend latter on the most popular ones. We could also benefit from a real lost and damned codex with its own unique models and units.

epronovost wrote:
Well, like most players I would be more than happy with more diversity in the models available to us for each armies. It would indeed be nice to have women guardsmen or Scions, new revamped SoB, but while we talk about diversity, we might as well talk about xenos representation. I think we could benefit from more xenos. Maybe GW could produce a «Dogs of War» style expension with new xenos to serve as auxilary for various factions and maybe expend latter on the most popular ones. We could also benefit from a real lost and damned codex with its own unique models and units.

Indeed

they already have a gak ton of non represented or squatted options to bring in or back before they even need to add new things.

but i have a feeling it all comes down to them wanting to updated what they already have before exploring new ventures.

Well, i mean eldar are pretty much 50 50 when it comes to men and women.

Tau there is not difference between the male and female members of their race.

Guard i want to see more female bits in there even if its a like a head or 2

Orks dont have any sex

Space marines are men only, that has been established lore for a long time.

But SoB while cool just dont really sell.

As with representation in general; I don't like nor support being inclusive for the sake of it, especially if it requires shoehorning.

The vast majority of elite warriors are and have been male, because men are (most often) better suited for war (historically).
The genetic enhancement from a male making it impossible for females to be enhanced that way makes sense, the Imperium is not exactly progressive and the space marine chapter system is very patriarchal. Shoehorning women into the Astartes for the sake of having women makes no sense and achieves nothing special.

Having females (and a variation of ethnicity) where it does make sense is a good thing though. Tau and eldar already do this, Guard should. CSM have the same problem as SM I think, but if there were chaos mortals that were never marines having some inclusion would be good (no, no one cares about cultists ). Why not corrupted SoB or assasins? A Tzeentch witch model?

As for Nid's Tervigons are technically female as far as I can tell.

It also shouldn't just be about xenos and females ether

There was definitely a ton of skin color variance between different guard regiments and i think it would be super cool to explore all of that and the crazy cultures of different worlds.

instead of all the same Canadian military types.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
More diversity means more people playing the game. Even putting the obvious social implications totally aside, it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that making your game more diverse means more people will play it. That means more money in GWs pocket which means a better game for everyone overall.

There is literally zero negative impact to GW or fans if they make the game more diverse.

In a game where the players can make their models how every they want, and create any chapter, regiment, band, ect ect ect they want.

The game does not need forced diversity, the game is already diverse through the player base, that does not need to be force represented in the game. No one likes when that kinda stuff is shoe horned into a game.

I would like to see female options for guard that said, like i said, LT Mira, my 40k waifu.

Saying that no one likes when diversity is added to game directly contradicts what most businesses have identified as an objective fact in the last 15 years: More diversity means more sales. You may make a handful of vocal people angry but those people are completely overshadowed by new business you bring in.

Overwatch is a recent example but it isn't the only one. Lots of video games have taken this approach and it has not hurt the industry or those games in any way whatsoever.

And for people complaining that the lore doesn't match. The lore didn't include Necrons or Tau or Imperial Knights until GW saw a way to make some more money and added them to the game. People complain about them but I bet GW isn't complaining about all the cash they get from selling those units. Where there's money there is a way, and diversity == money.