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Hey guys, I'm trying to see if I can make a viable list using the Wraith Host formation. The ability to battle focus with Wraith units seems like a no brainer, plus if I can get it into the Craftworld detachment, the 6" guaranteed battle focus gives regular Wraithguard a 24" threat range. What do you guys think about this (even though I've prefer not to use the Wind Host, but its the cheapest core detachment).

*********************
Eldar Craftworld Detachment

Skyrunner Host
Farseer on Jetbike (115)
Warlock on Jetbike (50)

3x Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers (81)
3x Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers (81)
3x Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers (81)

Vyper with Shuriken Cannon (50)

Wraith Host
Spirit Seer (70)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes (210)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

Wraithlord with 1x Scatter Laser (135)

Wraithknight with Sword and Shield, 2x Scatter Lasers (325)
****************************************

Does an army like this have enough punch to be competitive, or are the wraithguard too much of a glass cannon?

With the ubiquitous of grav spams... yeah, I'd consider this too much of a glass cannon.

Any way to fit in a VSG? I've tried, but couldn't make it work...

If Wraithguard are "glass cannons" than so is just about every unit short of a GMC. Seriously, that is ridiculous. Sure Grav will mow them down, but that's what Grav does: mows down eilite infantry.
Wraithguard are THE toughest infantry in the game, riding in the hardest to kill transport in the game. If you have trouble getting close by turn 2, you should throw your dice into Mt Doom.

WIndrider host + Wraith host is pretty much the most competitive way to run the Warhost, aside from Windrider host + 2 WKs + Spider Aspect Host.

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@Whembly
Does ITC allow a separate Fortification detachment? Otherwise, the warhost doesn't have a slot for it.

@Galef
Yes, Grav is sadface for literally everything, but in my test games, the wraith guard get out, shoot something, then die horribly in the return fire, and they provide the core "punch" of the army.

Also, the Wraithlord is useless, so I'm wondering if maybe I should do a CAD instead and then I would be able to get a Void Shield generator.

 whitedragon wrote:
@Whembly
Does ITC allow a separate Fortification detachment? Otherwise, the warhost doesn't have a slot for it.

Nope... my understanding is that only CADs and Allied detachment has Fortifications (other than that Stronghold formation that the name escapes me now...).

...unless I'm mixing my 7th ed rules with 6th.

@Galef
Yes, Grav is sadface for literally everything, but in my test games, the wraith guard get out, shoot something, then die horribly in the return fire, and they provide the core "punch" of the army.

Also, the Wraithlord is useless, so I'm wondering if maybe I should do a CAD instead and then I would be able to get a Void Shield generator.

If you're running the Wraith Host on foot, then I'd stick with the formation to ensure that 24" threat range and add a cheap Allied detachement for the fortification.

If you're wanting to use the Wave Serpents... I'm not so sure a VSG is that necessary.

I just ran the points and you can get 3 WKS, 18 Scatterbikes and a VSG in the same list. ... Disgusting!

You take the Windrider host, just as you have it, but with 1 unit of 6 bikes, 3 WKs with 1 shoulder weapon each, then take a CAD with Jetseer, 2x 3 Scatbikes & VSG with 3 shields. Should be 1846pts and fits into 2 detachments.

But I think ITC only allows 1 GMC, I think anyway. I don't play by ITC rules because they have way too many house rules. 40K is complicated enough without needing to memorize 2 rules sets for the same game.

-

 Galef wrote:
If Wraithguard are "glass cannons" than so is just about every unit short of a GMC. Seriously, that is ridiculous. Sure Grav will mow them down, but that's what Grav does: mows down eilite infantry.
Wraithguard are THE toughest infantry in the game, riding in the hardest to kill transport in the game. If you have trouble getting close by turn 2, you should throw your dice into Mt Doom.

WIndrider host + Wraith host is pretty much the most competitive way to run the Warhost, aside from Windrider host + 2 WKs + Spider Aspect Host.

-

Against Grav? Unless you're an Ork or Daemon, you're a glass hammer. I don't even bother playing against SM with my Eldar anymore.

 Galef wrote:
I just ran the points and you can get 3 WKS, 18 Scatterbikes and a VSG in the same list. ... Disgusting!

You take the Windrider host, just as you have it, but with 1 unit of 6 bikes, 3 WKs with 1 shoulder weapon each, then take a CAD with Jetseer, 2x 3 Scatbikes & VSG with 3 shields. Should be 1846pts and fits into 2 detachments.

But I think ITC only allows 1 GMC, I think anyway. I don't play by ITC rules because they have way too many house rules. 40K is complicated enough without needing to memorize 2 rules sets for the same game.

-

I like ITC! But, for extra silliness, I guess I could run 1 WK and a Baronial Court if I really wanted to. That gets around the GMC limitation lol.

But I mean, can the wraiths carry the list all by themselves, that's my question.

Being weak against 1 weapon type in the game that only 1 faction plays does NOT make you a glass cannon, no matter how prevalent said weapon may be. That's like saying an Imperial Knight is a glass cannon because WWP Wraithguard exist.
Just as there are plenty of armies that struggle against Knights, there are also plenty of armies that struggle against WG.

"Rock" doesn't become a glass cannon just because 1/3 of the players are bringing "Paper". There are still plenty of "Scissors" out there.
I'm not saying that in a Grav-heavy Meta, WG won't suffer, but labeling them "glass cannons" makes the term lose its meaning.

But, no, I don't think the WG can "carry the list". There aren't enough of them. Equal points worth of Hornets (actual glass cannons) and more Scatterbikes would carry the list for you.
If you switch to a CAD, bring this instead:

Farseer Skyrunner
5x 3 Scatbikes
5 D-scythe Guard (no serpents)
2x 2 Hornets
WK w/ glaive/shield & 2 scatters
VSG w/ 3 shields

DE CAD
Archon w. WWP
5 Kabalites (to babysit an objective near the VSG)

You'll probably have some point left over

-

If you want to keep the wraithhost idea, opt for a pale court instead of the windrider host as your core.

Something like this:

Warhost
Pale Court (aspect lord shrine)
Farseer - jetbike
3x5 Warp spiders - exarchs in each unit

Wraith Host
Spirit seer
2x5 d cannon guard in serpents
1x5 d scythe guard in a serpent
Wraithlord - glaive, flamers
Skathach wraithknight - 2x deathshroud cannons, 1x scatter laser

You've got enough anti-heavy infantry firepower between the wraithguard and warp spiders. The wraithlord should just be an annoying unit that charges weak things with the glaive and flamers.
Spiders go around and harass as spiders do.
The knight provides valuable ignores cover and at strength 7 ap4 hellstorm (18.5" flamer of doom) monofilament to wreck warconvocation, dark angels, or anything else that relies on cover, and acts as a horde killer.

The above list also has a few points to play around with if you want. I'd throw ghostwalk on the serpents and a smattering of scatter lasers or brightlances as you see fit.

 Rypher wrote:
If you want to keep the wraithhost idea, opt for a pale court instead of the windrider host as your core.

Something like this:

Warhost
Pale Court (aspect lord shrine)
Farseer - jetbike
3x5 Warp spiders - exarchs in each unit

Wraith Host
Spirit seer
2x5 d cannon guard in serpents
1x5 d scythe guard in a serpent
Wraithlord - glaive, flamers
Skathach wraithknight - 2x deathshroud cannons, 1x scatter laser

You've got enough anti-heavy infantry firepower between the wraithguard and warp spiders. The wraithlord should just be an annoying unit that charges weak things with the glaive and flamers.
Spiders go around and harass as spiders do.
The knight provides valuable ignores cover and at strength 7 ap4 hellstorm (18.5" flamer of doom) monofilament to wreck warconvocation, dark angels, or anything else that relies on cover, and acts as a horde killer.

The above list also has a few points to play around with if you want. I'd throw ghostwalk on the serpents and a smattering of scatter lasers or brightlances as you see fit.

That's an interesting idea, and gets me away from running Jetbikes, but does this mean I need the Doom book from FW? Also, are there enough points to do squads of Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents as well, instead of Warp Spiders?

I like the Samsquanch dreadnought, but I'm really liking the 5++/5++ of the Sword and Board wraithknight though.

 whitedragon wrote:

 Rypher wrote:
If you want to keep the wraithhost idea, opt for a pale court instead of the windrider host as your core.

Something like this:

Warhost
Pale Court (aspect lord shrine)
Farseer - jetbike
3x5 Warp spiders - exarchs in each unit

Wraith Host
Spirit seer
2x5 d cannon guard in serpents
1x5 d scythe guard in a serpent
Wraithlord - glaive, flamers
Skathach wraithknight - 2x deathshroud cannons, 1x scatter laser

You've got enough anti-heavy infantry firepower between the wraithguard and warp spiders. The wraithlord should just be an annoying unit that charges weak things with the glaive and flamers.
Spiders go around and harass as spiders do.
The knight provides valuable ignores cover and at strength 7 ap4 hellstorm (18.5" flamer of doom) monofilament to wreck warconvocation, dark angels, or anything else that relies on cover, and acts as a horde killer.

The above list also has a few points to play around with if you want. I'd throw ghostwalk on the serpents and a smattering of scatter lasers or brightlances as you see fit.

That's an interesting idea, and gets me away from running Jetbikes, but does this mean I need the Doom book from FW? Also, are there enough points to do squads of Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents as well, instead of Warp Spiders?

I like the Samsquanch dreadnought, but I'm really liking the 5++/5++ of the Sword and Board wraithknight though.

Battlescribe handles the Pale host well enough for list building...

I can bring my copy of the Doom book if you want to look through it next time we play.

I doubt there are enough points for avengers or dragons in serpents instead of spiders. The pale court is cheaper than the kitted out windrider host if you go with triple spider instead of triple dragon or avenger. Spiders are also mobile enough on their own to warrant the lack of wave serpents.

I seriously recommend the deathshroud knight over the regular one. He adds a lot to the list. A 5++ isn't the end all be all, and having two giant templates is ace. If you really are insistent on having an invulnerable save, the skathach is able to take a deathshroud cannon and a scattershield instead of double cannons.

Revised List using Pale Court Core Detachment

********************************************
Eldar Craftworld Detachment

Pale Court Detachment (with Aspect Shrine)
Farseer (100)

5x Warpspiders (95)
5x Warpspiders (95)
5x Warpspiders (95)

Wraith Host
Spirit Seer (70)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes (210)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

Wraithlord with Ghost Glaive and 2x Flamers (125)

Wraithknight with Sword and Shield, 2x Scatter Lasers (325)
*************************************************************

This puts me at 1765 points. What should I be doing, just adding some models and wargear to each squad, or should I try to mix around points and what not to get some different units? With what I have left, I could either get an autarch and possibly add another squad of Warpspiders (With the Autarch Pale Court add-on), or I could swap the Farseer for a Wraithseer (Using that Pale Court Add-on), but the Wraithseer wouldn't have any weapons other than the spear. Thoughts?

Well, spiders need an exarch, no exception. It's almost auto include for the utility he brings to the squad.

Pale courts forces the limit of 3 squads of said aspect warrior, so unless you added a CAD with jetbikes, you're out of luck with any more spider units unless you have points for 3 in an aspect host.

Keep the farseer, though a bike could be helpful. That's preference at this point, since he can hide in the other wraithguard unit no problem.
You can also just add an autarch on foot via a command slot if you want the reserve manipulation.

 whitedragon wrote:
Revised List using Pale Court Core Detachment

********************************************
Eldar Craftworld Detachment

Pale Court Detachment (with Aspect Shrine)
Farseer (100)

5x Warpspiders (95)
5x Warpspiders (95)
5x Warpspiders (95)

Wraith Host
Spirit Seer (70)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard (160)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes (210)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon (110)

Wraithlord with Ghost Glaive and 2x Flamers (125)

Wraithknight with Sword and Shield, 2x Scatter Lasers (325)
*************************************************************

This puts me at 1765 points. What should I be doing, just adding some models and wargear to each squad, or should I try to mix around points and what not to get some different units? With what I have left, I could either get an autarch and possibly add another squad of Warpspiders (With the Autarch Pale Court add-on), or I could swap the Farseer for a Wraithseer (Using that Pale Court Add-on), but the Wraithseer wouldn't have any weapons other than the spear. Thoughts?

I really like this list a lot. It's already been said but you gotta have those warp spiders exarchs, they're invaluable. Besides that I would drop atleast 1 scatter from the wraithknight (they're the most expensive scatter lasers in the codex). With any points you have left over the most competitive option would be to add more warp spiders to your squads or give your serpents some upgrades.



here's what it would look like for simplicity:
Pale Court:
Farseer --- 100

3 x 6 Warp Spiders --- 372
Exarch


Wraith host:

Spiritseer --- 70

2 x 5 Wraithguard --- 320
2 x Wave Serpent --- 230
TL Scatter

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes (210)
Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatterlaser and ghostwalk (125)

Wraithlord w/ ghost glaive and flamers ---- 125

Wraithknight with Sword and scattershield --- 295

Total: 1847

Dual flamers on an assaulty WL will empty out your charge range. I would go with one Bright Lance, for long-shot transport busting.

'Course, the WraithSeer is way better an option, since you're already dabbling in the Doom of M.

A WL is a liability. Too slow and too low damage output.

 wuestenfux wrote:
A WL is a liability. Too slow and too low damage output.

The WL is a requirement for the formation

Yep, Helvost is right on the money, take the 2 units in the faction that really love battlefocus and automatic 6" runs and throw them in a list.

Because after all, if you're hunting for that battlefocus 6" run, you may as well maximize your returns and abuse that crazy mobility...

Would be tempted to get the FW variant Wraithknight with the Hellstorm templates though

Thanks for all the input guys! Still wondering if getting the 6" guaranteed run is better than rolling, plus the ability to take a CAD and the ever important Void Shield Generator.