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2016/09/21 17:21:49
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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I have done a few matches on AoS:
1)one versus a warherd army (minotaur fest) that was basically a slugfest where I killed them all taking a 150-ish points in loses.
2) another against highborn. Got tied but that was mainly because we were playing that mission where there are four objectives and he had basically deployed 70/30 versus my 45/50 ( and that intiative roll just kept screwing me over.)
3) and the last one against stormcasts: two blocks of10 liberators, six prosecutors with hammers, two concussors with a lord celestant and a venator. Major win too, lost 40% of my army but wiped the sigmarines and won by a boatload of objective points.
I used the same list, the one I want to post now. The point of all it being that I know this list is good BUT I'd like to know its weaknesses and gain insights on how to pad/ameliorate them with the tactics it can offer:
Leader: Warboss with battlebrew 140pts
Warchanter. 80pts
Battleline: two blocks of 10 ardboys. 2 x 180pts
one block of 5 brutes (boss has the klaw+smasha). 180pts
three gore-gruntas. 180pts
Batallion: Ironfist. 60pts
In so far my strategy has revolved around my ardboyz leading the charge against the frontlines. Thus they tie and soften the stronger enemies. By that point I've usually made a gap in the enemy's frontline which I usually took with my 2d6+8" movement gruntas to snipe the enemy backline units (like the azyros). This on turn will distract whatever threat my enemy held in reserve (like the concussors) and I'll snipe it with my brutes (the brute boss is becoming INFAMOUS in my meta as he had killed both the lord celestant and the general doombull in a single round of combat). Meanwhile my megaboss will support with his WAAAGH! and go wherever he's needed more sorely between the two bunches of ardboyz.
Any idea how to tackle this (aside from mortal wound spam? In my meta we abhor that tactic-we can use it sometimes, though- so they ain't likely to abuse it)
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2016/09/21 18:56:40
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Your list is good. There's a definite lack of range here, but with all the extra movement I don't see that as being a big flaw at 1000 pts. There are some standard cheese lists that will mop yours up but there isn't anything you can really do about that. All in all I think changing your list to accommodate weaknesses would undermine your strengths more than it would be worth. The real 'counter' to this list is going to be an opponent with an equally strong one who just plays better. Ultimately it seems like you have a very solid ('Ard) list that's backed up with skill.on the tabletop. Give your opponent's some tips/practice and things may even out.
As a side note, you get an extra artifact from having a battalion.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2016/09/21 22:06:29
Subject: Re:[1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Completely forgot about it (dunno why but thought it was for every batallion with a hero, I'm sorely wrong)... you know what? I think I've finally found another use for that warchanter.
Just noticed something slightly hilarious: this is exactly the enemy list the stormcast used:
Leader:
- lord celestant 100pts
- knight venator. 120pts
Battleline
2 blocks of ten liberators: 200x2=400pts
Other:
- 2 concussors. 280pts
- 6 prosecutors with celestial hammers. 200pts
That's 1100 points, a 100 more than mine... and I still wrecked his gak (well, lost half my army at that, but still!)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/22 07:42:23
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2016/09/23 11:41:03
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Flashy Flashgitz
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What is this ironjaw speed bonus everybody talks about?
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With love from Denmark
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2016/09/23 11:54:53
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Been Around the Block
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BATTLE TRAIT
Armies with the DESTRUCTIONallegiance gain the following battle trait:
Rampaging Destroyers: Those that owe allegiance to Destruction are always eager to get to grips with their enemies. They surge forward in seething hordes, overrunning everything that gets in their path. Roll a dice in your hero phase for each unit from your army that is within 6" of your general or another HEROfrom your army. The unit can move a number of inches equal to the dice roll as if it were the movement phase, but cannot run. This does not affect their ability to move again later in the turn
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2016/09/23 16:07:47
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Same as the previous post said and there's the ironfist batallion too: units in it, as long as the boss' alive, get to move in the hero phase an additional d6'' (and it's cumulative with rampaging destroyers!). I find that it also works as a great psychological weapon, in all those matchups my oponents were astounded when they heard it: they thought they only moved 4'' but all of a suddent hey see the buggers have crossed the whole no-man's land and are in their terrain almost in turn 1. It scares the gak out of them.
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2016/09/23 16:15:22
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Lieutenant General
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There's also the 'Ravager' command trait which changes the Rampaging Destroyers roll from D6" to D6+2".
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2016/09/23 16:39:10
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Ghaz wrote:There's also the 'Ravager' command trait which changes the Rampaging Destroyers roll from D6" to D6+2".
I know, it's savage: you go from 4'' to 6+ 2d6... yeah guys, age of sigmar has warpspiders and they are called ironjaws.
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2016/09/23 16:50:43
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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Umm. You're not destruction allegiance though if you're using ardboys as battlelines. You're ironjaws allegiance. At the start of the allegiance section it says that if you have an option for two allegiances you must chose which one to use. If you chose destruction then you can't have ard boys for battle lines.
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2016/09/23 17:03:26
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Lieutenant General
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Mulletdude wrote:Umm. You're not destruction allegiance though if you're using ardboys as battlelines. You're ironjaws allegiance. At the start of the allegiance section it says that if you have an option for two allegiances you must chose which one to use. If you chose destruction then you can't have ard boys for battle lines.
You may wish to read the General's Handbook FAQ to see why your assumption is wrong (specifically the errata for page 106).
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2016/09/23 17:17:47
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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Ghaz wrote: Mulletdude wrote:Umm. You're not destruction allegiance though if you're using ardboys as battlelines. You're ironjaws allegiance. At the start of the allegiance section it says that if you have an option for two allegiances you must chose which one to use. If you chose destruction then you can't have ard boys for battle lines.
You may wish to read the General's Handbook FAQ to see why your assumption is wrong (specifically the errata for page 106).
That doesn't clear it up for me. Can you help me understand what you were getting at?
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2016/09/23 17:30:05
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Lieutenant General
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Mulletdude wrote: Ghaz wrote: Mulletdude wrote:Umm. You're not destruction allegiance though if you're using ardboys as battlelines. You're ironjaws allegiance. At the start of the allegiance section it says that if you have an option for two allegiances you must chose which one to use. If you chose destruction then you can't have ard boys for battle lines.
You may wish to read the General's Handbook FAQ to see why your assumption is wrong (specifically the errata for page 106).
That doesn't clear it up for me. Can you help me understand what you were getting at?
Again, from the General's Handbook FAQ, the errata for page 106:
Page 106 – Pitched Battles, Picking Your Army
Change the last paragraph to read: ‘Once you have picked your army, record the details of it on a piece of paper (your army roster). The roster must include the units in your army, details of the upgrades they have, the army’s allegiance, and must say which model in the army will be the army general.
If your army includes any units that are given keywords when they are set up, such as units with a Mark of Chaos, then these must be chosen and written down when the unit is added to the roster. You must record the allegiance abilities for your army when the battle begins, before setting up your first unit. You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to.
Plain as day. Ironjawz can take either their own non-existent allegiance abilities or those of the Destruction Grand Alliance.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2016/09/23 17:43:16
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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But if they take their non existent allegiance ability then ard boys are battle line units.
If they take destruction then they get the allegiance ability from the book, but ard boys are not battle line units because you didn't choose Ironjawz allegiance.
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2016/09/23 17:48:08
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Lieutenant General
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Being able to take Arboyz as Battleline is not an Allegiance Ability.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2016/09/23 17:58:34
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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Ghaz wrote:Being able to take Arboyz as Battleline is not an Allegiance Ability.
But it requires the Ironjawz allegiance. Page 156 says that when you have multiple allegiances you must chose one.
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2016/09/23 18:00:32
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Lieutenant General
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Just because it requires all models in the army to have the 'Ironjawz' keyword on their warscroll doesn't make it an Allegiance Ability.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2016/09/23 18:55:35
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Mulletdude wrote:But if they take their non existent allegiance ability then ard boys are battle line units.
If they take destruction then they get the allegiance ability from the book, but ard boys are not battle line units because you didn't choose Ironjawz allegiance.
Ehm... it's actually pretty clear as day: you can do two things:
A) Pick the alleigance abilities of the army you have alleigance of.
B) Pick the alliance abilities said alleigance belongs to.
The wording makes a clear distinction to the alleigance and the abilities. In short, it's like saying that tactical squads couldn't be troops if I decided to play imperial fists tactics rather than ultramarines tactics, since at the end of the day Ironjaws are but one of the destruction sub-factions, think of it as the sectorial armies from Infinity or rolling warlord traits from either the codex specific table or the BRB.
This is the stance supported by GW, BTW, as stated quite a few times by eddie and rob during the warlord's tournament stream.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/23 18:56:43
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2016/09/23 19:11:08
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Moral of the story: ironfisted Ironjawz are ironically raising ire for their high speed despite being a 'slow' army.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2016/09/23 19:14:59
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Moral of the story: ironfisted Ironjawz are ironically raising ire for their high speed despite being a 'slow' army.
That and I've already some people start shouting:
"It's fisting time!"
(go watch if the emperor had a tts to get it, if you didn't).
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2016/09/23 19:17:31
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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You know slap some bits on him and you could run Calgar as a Megaboss...
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2016/09/23 19:27:12
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Huh, interesting, then they'd be DA GREATEST OF DEM ALL!
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2016/10/04 12:36:58
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Dont know for sure how well it would work, but i would take Dispossessed (cause that is all i have) and i would take 2 cannons and a cogsmith (460), wrap them in longbeards (420) which i have seen easily last a few turns against ironjawz (4+ rerolling saves always is better than i think it will be). Then throw in a warden king (120) out front to increase effectiveness and hopefully make you think it is a priority target to draw attacks off the longbeards and have them protect the artillery even longer.
My goal would be to take out the megaboss turn 1 (should be possible with 4 cannon shots) then the warchanter turn 2.
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2016/10/04 14:53:35
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Volund wrote:Dont know for sure how well it would work, but i would take Dispossessed (cause that is all i have) and i would take 2 cannons and a cogsmith (460), wrap them in longbeards (420) which i have seen easily last a few turns against ironjawz (4+ rerolling saves always is better than i think it will be). Then throw in a warden king (120) out front to increase effectiveness and hopefully make you think it is a priority target to draw attacks off the longbeards and have them protect the artillery even longer.
My goal would be to take out the megaboss turn 1 (should be possible with 4 cannon shots) then the warchanter turn 2.
I'd simply hide the megaboss behind the gore-gruntas. If a model blocks LOS with the cannons, you can't fire at them. There you go, you can't snipe him. If I have double turn I've made it and I'll bleed the hell out of you with my MANY rend -1/-2 attacks.
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2016/10/04 16:06:30
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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It would be interesting for sure! I do think you would have the advantage but it wouldnt be guaranteed. A few rolls going my way and the gruntas only buy you one turn, but a few rolls going your way could make the artillery completely wasted points. Or snake eyes on a charge could give me an extra turn. Also, terrain could make a difference, if I had cover it would negate the rend, or if there was a good hill/building on my side it could be difficult to effectively hide the heroes.
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2016/10/04 17:09:24
Subject: Re:[1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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If you have a piece of cover so big that you can fit a 1000pts army I'm saying that map ought to be redone. No piece should be as big as to house 40 models without issue.
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2016/10/04 17:56:58
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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How are gore grunts going to hide the Megaboss? The dwarves can draw line of sight through their legs to see the corner of his boot and be able to shoot that way :/
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2016/10/04 18:20:38
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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NinthMusketeer wrote:How are gore grunts going to hide the Megaboss? The dwarves can draw line of sight through their legs to see the corner of his boot and be able to shoot that way :/
Well, the method is simple: put a gore-grunta, then a thin line of ardboyz. Now, considered he said he'd screen his longbeards I'd even not need the ardboys. Also that I've a gore-grunta that for the live of me I haven't managed to place well and he's been stuck at an odd angle, like doing wakeboard, so the legs wouldn't be seen.
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2016/10/04 18:24:17
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Yeah, i probably counldnt fit all the longbeards on a single piece, but one Citadel Wood would be sufficent for a 20 man unit to be strung out along the border and leave room for 2 cannons in the middle so i dont think it is too unrealistic to prepare for a situation where a significant portion of models are benefiting from cover. So not 40, but probably 30 without much issue. It helps that dwarfs are lots of points for tiny bases XD.
And of course all this is assuming we are not playing an objective based game, because i dont think the dispossessed would provide you any sort of challenge in a situation where they had to go somewhere rather than just survive.
I wondered about how perfectly it could hide, but i couldnt find any pictures of the two models next to eachother. And in the end even if he has to be staggering them to make sure the legs fill in gaps sufficently, it is still a good plan and a realistic idea to keep the megaboss alive and moing forward when he might have otherwise died
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2016/10/04 18:33:10
Subject: [1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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It sounds like it's going to slow the advance, thus playing into the dwarf players hands. But really, on a battlefield Ironjawz are going to tend to beat Dispossessed anyways, because the former is so much better for its points than the latter.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2016/10/04 19:02:00
Subject: Re:[1000] - Ironjwaz - Faceslasha's Gitz. Or how to counter this list.
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Brutal Black Orc
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Amen, the footman megaboss is seriously undercosted: for only 40pts more than a celestant lord I get 2 fist attacks (rend -2/d3 dmg) 6 choppa attacks ((rend -1/ 2dmg), 2 more wounds and a VERY powerful ability that (according to our house rules, and maybe offically now) can also boost him (remember, he's an Ironjaw too, and he's within 10'' of himself). Those 6/7/8 choppa attacks will be able to go 2+/2+ thanks to battlebrew, so the guy's effectively a blender.
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