Switch Theme:

Blue Table Painting  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Someone at my FLGS is looking to get an army painted, he's considering sending it to Blue Table Painting.

They are asking for the price of a nice used car, but he likes the fact they are in the US and have a process where he can order models painted up to a certain level.

Does anyone still use them? If so, what experiences have you had?
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Not sure if anyone used them. They caught a lot of gak after the whole Chaos Dwarfs incident. I'd recommend Den of Imagination, they're pretty great.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






South Dakota

Frontline Gaming also has a US painting service with a good price/quality intersection.

DS:70+S+G+MB--I+PW40k10-D++A++/sWD391R+T(R)DM+

My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing
"
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

Well, to begin with, I am reliant on painting services and commissions, nerve damage in my dominant arm means that holding a brush steady is a no-go for me. So about 4 or so years ago, I gave Blue Table Painting a shot, several actually on a couple of projects.

My experiences are mixed, but on a definite downward trend. The first time, when BTP was relatively small and unknown, I actually had a pretty good and positive experience. But all of my later projects were pretty nasty. I had a Sisters of Battle army practically vanish under their watch, with a promised delivery date of January (I sent it in around November) being missed and, as I found out, they hadn't even unpacked the box in January. I was given many run-arounds and misleading statements as I worked through that. I will say that usually the paint quality is decent, however their customer service is (at least when I last used it) amazingly poor.

Plus, as jreilly mentioned, BTP was caught up in a very nasty case a couple of years back with a Chaos Dwarf army that went completely off the rails. It was on the verge of going to court before it settled, but in the process, BTP really burned what little goodwill they had. The thread is still around here on Dakka somewhere, but I'm afraid I can't recall where.

In short, BTP is a good -idea-, but their execution has severely fallen short. Your friend is mistaking their level system as something unique when really any commission painter will offer the same kind of service. It's extremely common. I would not recommend BTP, and instead, either use something like Frontline Gaming, or any of the commission painters here on Dakka, some of which I have used for years to great effect and I've built wonderful working relationships with.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 curran12 wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, to begin with, I am reliant on painting services and commissions, nerve damage in my dominant arm means that holding a brush steady is a no-go for me. So about 4 or so years ago, I gave Blue Table Painting a shot, several actually on a couple of projects.

My experiences are mixed, but on a definite downward trend. The first time, when BTP was relatively small and unknown, I actually had a pretty good and positive experience. But all of my later projects were pretty nasty. I had a Sisters of Battle army practically vanish under their watch, with a promised delivery date of January (I sent it in around November) being missed and, as I found out, they hadn't even unpacked the box in January. I was given many run-arounds and misleading statements as I worked through that. I will say that usually the paint quality is decent, however their customer service is (at least when I last used it) amazingly poor.

Plus, as jreilly mentioned, BTP was caught up in a very nasty case a couple of years back with a Chaos Dwarf army that went completely off the rails. It was on the verge of going to court before it settled, but in the process, BTP really burned what little goodwill they had. The thread is still around here on Dakka somewhere, but I'm afraid I can't recall where.

In short, BTP is a good -idea-, but their execution has severely fallen short. Your friend is mistaking their level system as something unique when really any commission painter will offer the same kind of service. It's extremely common. I would not recommend BTP, and instead, either use something like Frontline Gaming, or any of the commission painters here on Dakka, some of which I have used for years to great effect and I've built wonderful working relationships with.



Here's the DakkaDakka thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/618082.page

Someone also did a brief story on it: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2014/11/06/network-news-epic-blue-table-painting-saga/

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

I remember the Blue Table incident.

After that mess I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Blue table had a horrible Idea when it came to painting. It has several painters working on the same project with no coordination, one person did basecoating, another wash another this another that with no coordination between. the bosses will dictate which paints to use as which stages, and you cant go beyond and so forth.
Go to frontline. They are serious. They give the model to the painter, tell him the LVL of detail, tell him any paint scheme and than tell them to just finish it.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Blackclad Wayfarer





Philadelphia

Den of Imagination, Golem painting, GMM studios, Frontline, and dozens of artists on Dakka - all are almost the same price as BTP's laughable quality of work. Hell Goatboy/spikey bitz can put out some extremely good work for pennies in comparison

BTP has the social media following, a charismatic guy, and a large collections of videos. Quality of work produced to price is laughable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/21 18:00:21


   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Never use BTP. They're good at marketing (or at least they used to be), especially to new players who don't know any better, but they suck at everything else. And the sad thing is everything about that chaos dwarfs debacle was stuff we'd known for years. Their painting quality is mediocre at best and expensive, and the owner boasts about having a "no refunds, ever" policy because "the first rule of business is once you have the customer's money you never give it back". Combined with the fact that you have to pay half (IIRC) the cost up front you have a situation where BTP does their usual mediocre work and you have a choice between paying them the rest of the money for models the average 10 year old could have painted or writing off the initial payment and getting nothing. And this is true even if BTP is at fault, the best that you can hope for without taking them to court is that they "correct" the problem without giving any kind of refund.

TL;DR: BTP. Other painters do better work with more reasonable refund policies.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Nearly any gaming community of any size will have a few local painters, although as always, timeliness and reliability can vary dramatically.

BTP has a very... erratic reputation. As a long running business, they're better than average at producing a painted project roughly on time and on budget, which is where most solos really fall through. If you have realistic expectations for what the final project will look like, and you don't mind some of the more powerful techniques to speed up painting, like airbrushing, powerful washes, etc, than you'll likely be fine.

Essentially, the biggest selling point for BTP is that they are reliable, although there are certainly counterexamples of that. But commission painting is all about picking two of the following three priorities: speed, quality, price.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/21 21:17:43


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

I'll echo others and say avoid BTP. I used them for a few projects back in 2005-2006 and the quality in each commission varied wildly, and the pricing was extremely high for the quality of work I received.

To add to the list of alternative painting services try Garden Ninja Painting. It is a great, one-man operation that hasn't let me down in 7 years of regular business.
   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Not sure if anyone used them. They caught a lot of gak after the whole Chaos Dwarfs incident. I'd recommend Den of Imagination, they're pretty great.

They're still in business?

I've used them before, and I was not impressed. The oddest part was having a bastion painted the completly wrong color. They redid it right, but you have to wonder what kind of misconnunication happened that had a project very clearly using a green color scheme come out bright red.

"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..."
Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Missouri

 Peregrine wrote:
...and the owner boasts about having a "no refunds, ever" policy because "the first rule of business is once you have the customer's money you never give it back".


Christ, that sounds more like one of the Ferengi "Rules of Acquisition" than a serious way to run a business. Makes the guy sound like a crook.

 Desubot wrote:
Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
Made in au
Innocent SDF-1 Bridge Bunny





Brisbane, Australia

 Sidstyler wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
...and the owner boasts about having a "no refunds, ever" policy because "the first rule of business is once you have the customer's money you never give it back".


Christ, that sounds more like one of the Ferengi "Rules of Acquisition" than a serious way to run a business. Makes the guy sound like a crook.



It is, in fact, no. 1 in the Rules of Acquisition.

So many games, so little time.

So many models, even less time.

Screw it, Netflix and chill. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




well me personally the part I look forward to with miniatures is painting and assembling them so I do it myself, i'm not a great painter and do a passable table top standard but not looking to make pieces of art either, but get enough satisfaction with what I do.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Micky wrote:
 Sidstyler wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
...and the owner boasts about having a "no refunds, ever" policy because "the first rule of business is once you have the customer's money you never give it back".


Christ, that sounds more like one of the Ferengi "Rules of Acquisition" than a serious way to run a business. Makes the guy sound like a crook.


It is, in fact, no. 1 in the Rules of Acquisition.


In fact their old website used to quote it as "the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition say 'never give their money back'" in justifying their refund policy.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

If it's a big job, expect it to be done by several different painters who may not all be there for the duration of the job. The bottom tier is maybe worth it if you don't care too much and just want stuff on the table.

Realistically, you'd be much better off finding a local hobbyist/painter who can do it for you; you can presumably pick up / drop off the mini's in person, and you'll get better quality for less money.

   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Yeah, I remember the Chaos Dwarves thread. That immediately came to mind.

That said, I am not the client, and people don't always make the decisions we would like. Has anyone had a recent experience with them?

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 techsoldaten wrote:
Yeah, I remember the Chaos Dwarves thread. That immediately came to mind.

That said, I am not the client, and people don't always make the decisions we would like. Has anyone had a recent experience with them?
After the Chaos Dwarf debacle, a whole bunch of people decided NOT to have recent experience with them.

I know that I wouldn't want to, and would warn people way from dealing with them. (Send your friend to look at the Chaos Dwarf thread - make sure that they read what was requested, and see what was actually received. I would have been ashamed if it were my paint job.)

Remember - the client paid for a high level of detail, and what he got was OSL crap with primer showing through. (I love OSL when it is well done - Victoria Lamb is a past master of OSL, and is the best painter in the world as far as my opinion goes - this was not well done.)

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gr
Furious Fire Dragon





Athens Greece

 Peregrine wrote:
Never use BTP. They're good at marketing (or at least they used to be), especially to new players who don't know any better, but they suck at everything else. And the sad thing is everything about that chaos dwarfs debacle was stuff we'd known for years. Their painting quality is mediocre at best and expensive, and the owner boasts about having a "no refunds, ever" policy because "the first rule of business is once you have the customer's money you never give it back". Combined with the fact that you have to pay half (IIRC) the cost up front you have a situation where BTP does their usual mediocre work and you have a choice between paying them the rest of the money for models the average 10 year old could have painted or writing off the initial payment and getting nothing. And this is true even if BTP is at fault, the best that you can hope for without taking them to court is that they "correct" the problem without giving any kind of refund.

TL;DR: BTP. Other painters do better work with more reasonable refund policies.


What this guys says. Stay the fook away from BTP.

Got milk?

All I can say about painting is that VMC tastes much better than VMA... especially black...

PM me if you are interested in Commission work.
 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle






In my situation I find the best way to handle these questions is with pictures and experience. I'm not going to bash them, and if it happens on this thread the mods will probably police it down. I'm sure our painters can give some incite.
So i've bought two models from them when i was learning to paint and needed more talent than i personally had.
The first was converted swarmlord. I'm happy with the basing, but there is some overlap of the black onto flesh areas on the carapace/talon area. I spent 500 something on it
The second is a dimachaeron that i received just before the chaos dwarves thing. I spent over 700 on it for the paint/basing work. If i remember properly i paid for the model myself and had it shipped to them. Once again i'm happy with the basing, and the photos they sent were very pretty. It arrived with the tail snapped off which isn't unexpected. I will confirm what the others have said, it appears that it was primed and very heavily dry brushed for the skin tones. You can see some streaking on the pictures in the tail area.
I'm happy that i have these models. i bought them when my father passed and they gave me something to look forward to. Each of them took around 6 months to complete. I haven't bought a commission piece since but i've been very impressed with den of imagination and awaken realms.
Edit: I apologize they are upside down, when you click on them they go right side up? I don't know why, im not a computer person.

[Thumb - dp1fix.jpg]

[Thumb - dp2fix.jpg]

[Thumb - dp3fix.jpg]

[Thumb - dp4fix.jpg]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/28 16:23:11


 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 Rotary wrote:
In my situation I find the best way to handle these questions is with pictures and experience. I'm not going to bash them, and if it happens on this thread the mods will probably police it down. I'm sure our painters can give some incite.
So i've bought two models from them when i was learning to paint and needed more talent than i personally had.
The first was converted swarmlord. I'm happy with the basing, but there is some overlap of the black onto flesh areas on the carapace/talon area. I spent 500 something on it
The second is a dimachaeron that i received just before the chaos dwarves thing. I spent over 700 on it for the paint/basing work. If i remember properly i paid for the model myself and had it shipped to them. Once again i'm happy with the basing, and the photos they sent were very pretty. It arrived with the tail snapped off which isn't unexpected. I will confirm what the others have said, it appears that it was primed and very heavily dry brushed for the skin tones. You can see some streaking on the pictures in the tail area.
I'm happy that i have these models. i bought them when my father passed and they gave me something to look forward to. Each of them took around 6 months to complete. I haven't bought a commission piece since but i've been very impressed with den of imagination and awaken realms.
Edit: I apologize they are upside down, when you click on them they go right side up? I don't know why, im not a computer person.



I actually think those models look fine, I just think their price is ridiculous.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

I worked with them for years. I know the owner personally. I don't use them in large part anymore, because I mostly do my own painting. For big projects there are other places I'd go today, but I still plan on throwing some business their way next year.

Like all business's you interact with, the positive outcomes will typically far outweigh the negative. In our community though, the negative definitely tends to get more press.

BTP provided me with 3 good looking army's. Their costs have gone up since then, sure. Odd's are though, you are going to be happy with the product you got from them.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 jreilly89 wrote:
 Rotary wrote:
In my situation I find the best way to handle these questions is with pictures and experience. I'm not going to bash them, and if it happens on this thread the mods will probably police it down. I'm sure our painters can give some incite.
So i've bought two models from them when i was learning to paint and needed more talent than i personally had.
The first was converted swarmlord. I'm happy with the basing, but there is some overlap of the black onto flesh areas on the carapace/talon area. I spent 500 something on it
The second is a dimachaeron that i received just before the chaos dwarves thing. I spent over 700 on it for the paint/basing work. If i remember properly i paid for the model myself and had it shipped to them. Once again i'm happy with the basing, and the photos they sent were very pretty. It arrived with the tail snapped off which isn't unexpected. I will confirm what the others have said, it appears that it was primed and very heavily dry brushed for the skin tones. You can see some streaking on the pictures in the tail area.
I'm happy that i have these models. i bought them when my father passed and they gave me something to look forward to. Each of them took around 6 months to complete. I haven't bought a commission piece since but i've been very impressed with den of imagination and awaken realms.
Edit: I apologize they are upside down, when you click on them they go right side up? I don't know why, im not a computer person.



I actually think those models look fine, I just think their price is ridiculous.



I agree, the price and turn around time are much too high. 6 months seems excessive to complete one figure for a studio as large as BTP.

If you are happy with the pieces, Rotary, that is all that matters. However, there are cheaper, faster, and (arguably) higher quality painters out there that can give you more bang for your buck than BTP.







   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle






I agree dark traveler. I'm just using my purchase as an example. Prices and quality can range so much from painter to painter.
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






I was hoping BTP had gone out of business after the Chaos Dwarf debacle and other incidents. What an embarrassment they are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/26 10:30:58


 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






It's a bit old, but here's my thread on my first experience with DoI and the following stuff I've had them do for me.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624597.page

Not looking anyhere else for my comissions.

Data author for Battlescribe
Found a bug? Join, ask, report:
https://discord.gg/pMXqCqWJRE 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Rotary wrote:
In my situation I find the best way to handle these questions is with pictures and experience. I'm not going to bash them, and if it happens on this thread the mods will probably police it down. I'm sure our painters can give some incite.
So i've bought two models from them when i was learning to paint and needed more talent than i personally had.
The first was converted swarmlord. I'm happy with the basing, but there is some overlap of the black onto flesh areas on the carapace/talon area. I spent 500 something on it
The second is a dimachaeron that i received just before the chaos dwarves thing. I spent over 700 on it for the paint/basing work. If i remember properly i paid for the model myself and had it shipped to them. Once again i'm happy with the basing, and the photos they sent were very pretty. It arrived with the tail snapped off which isn't unexpected. I will confirm what the others have said, it appears that it was primed and very heavily dry brushed for the skin tones. You can see some streaking on the pictures in the tail area.
I'm happy that i have these models. i bought them when my father passed and they gave me something to look forward to. Each of them took around 6 months to complete. I haven't bought a commission piece since but i've been very impressed with den of imagination and awaken realms.
Edit: I apologize they are upside down, when you click on them they go right side up? I don't know why, im not a computer person.

They look nice, but yeah just the price is a bit crazy.

Commission painting is expensive because it's time consuming work, but if you paid me $20 an hour that means I could spend 35 hours on the Dimachaeron and I think in that time I could paint it better than they did. Spending a bit more time filling gaps and whatnot and producing a similar but cleaner result. But I'm not a professional painter, I'd expect a pro to do better work faster than I can.

Personally based on the stories I'd stay away from BTP, but if I were commissioning them to do something it'd probably be a low-end job, like I just want an army painted to a low-end gaming standard but don't have the time to do it myself. I haven't seen any high-end work from them that I thought looked worth while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/26 11:48:25


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

This is all useful feedback.

Let's ask the question another way. How much would you expect to pay for a commission on a Space Wolves army, consisting of:

- 1 HQ
- 1 Long Fangs squad (10 models)
- 1 Tactical Squad (10 models)
- 1 Dread

... all done to a tabletop standard, with base colors, 1 level of shadow, and 1 level of highlight? Does anyone have any comparisons?

   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 techsoldaten wrote:
This is all useful feedback.

Let's ask the question another way. How much would you expect to pay for a commission on a Space Wolves army, consisting of:

- 1 HQ
- 1 Long Fangs squad (10 models)
- 1 Tactical Squad (10 models)
- 1 Dread

... all done to a tabletop standard, with base colors, 1 level of shadow, and 1 level of highlight? Does anyone have any comparisons?
Someone could probably give you a quote, but I think doing that you'd be looking at spending nearly 2 hours on each infantry model and maybe a day or so on the Dread, that's assuming you spend a bit of time to do them neatly without going to the effort of multiple highlights and whatnot. Space Wolves are annoyingly highly detailed so actually take a bit of work, so maybe 40ish hours of work.

But how much a commission painter pays themselves per hour varies wildly. Expect to be paying them for a couple of days to a week's worth of wages, if it's more than that you're probably paying too much (or they are painting it to a higher standard).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/26 12:13:32


 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: