Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Listen up, ya bunch o' gitz!!!

I have started a new YouTube channel about da proppa Ork taktiks, titled Warboss Kurbstompa!

The introduction is online, but the first series of videos to follow it will go through the codex choices, starting with HQ choices tonight. I will go on to discuss equipment, detachments, formations, tactics for using your units and survival tips for facing top-tier armies. If the channel goes well I'll get my mates involved and publish battle reports too.

Please check it out/comment/like/share/subscribe/follow on twitter @BossKurbstompa

Here is the first video:


Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwZ30FH5Ong9vzhs9AsQ7Fw

Cheers guys,

Tim

looks good!

I'd disagree with "a lot of damage" in cc. In current edition it's not unheard of striking 100+ times with 0-1 wounds after all the invisibility and re-rollable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, mob rule is 2-3 if you have a character, 4-6 10+ models.

Otherwise it's a nice review.

 koooaei wrote:
I'd disagree with "a lot of damage" in cc. In current edition it's not unheard of striking 100+ times with 0-1 wounds after all the invisibility and re-rollable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, mob rule is 2-3 if you have a character, 4-6 10+ models.

Otherwise it's a nice review.

Cheers. I didn't have the codex to hand at the time I recorded this. I will correct this in a later video.

Re: the striking 100+ times after invisibility etc, it might not be "unheard of" but is it really common?

 Krusha wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd disagree with "a lot of damage" in cc. In current edition it's not unheard of striking 100+ times with 0-1 wounds after all the invisibility and re-rollable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, mob rule is 2-3 if you have a character, 4-6 10+ models.

Otherwise it's a nice review.

Cheers. I didn't have the codex to hand at the time I recorded this. I will correct this in a later video.

Re: the striking 100+ times after invisibility etc, it might not be "unheard of" but is it really common?

Well mathematically a unit of invisible space marines only suffer 2.7 wounds from 100 attacks from charging orks with their +1 Str

And Invis is usually on something more durable like bikes so yeah this is pretty common

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Krusha wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd disagree with "a lot of damage" in cc. In current edition it's not unheard of striking 100+ times with 0-1 wounds after all the invisibility and re-rollable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, mob rule is 2-3 if you have a character, 4-6 10+ models.

Otherwise it's a nice review.

Cheers. I didn't have the codex to hand at the time I recorded this. I will correct this in a later video.

Re: the striking 100+ times after invisibility etc, it might not be "unheard of" but is it really common?

Well mathematically a unit of invisible space marines only suffer 2.7 wounds from 100 attacks from charging orks with their +1 Str

And Invis is usually on something more durable like bikes so yeah this is pretty common

My point was, is invisibility so prevalent to begin with that this is such a common situation to face, seeing as it's not a primaris power and not all armies have access to psykers, let alone telepathy? And if it is, couldn't you make the same argument about any army, not just Orks?

Half the armies i face nowadays are psy deathstars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically, you can't discount psy, crons and stuff like wraithknights. Sure, vs regular things ork damage output is ok. But vs things that really matter it's not ok. So, you have to compensate it with speed. Hence why footsloggas are not amazing. Not only cause they're very vulnerable. They also can't pick their fights. Relying on damage output of 30 boyz and 1 pk is just not gona cut it when they can't put a dent in any more or less worthwhile melee unit and will have troubles surviving any more or less shooty unit or catching any more or less mobile unit... Well, you got what i mean. They do have an advantage when you play extremely defensively and don't move - just sit in cover, go to ground and try to win a scoring game. It's unorky but it works unlike rushing across the board with a bunch of slow weak dudes with ld issues.

Greentide used to be a thing. But i'm really not sure if it's gona cut it now with even more psy powers that nullify their strengths. Not saying that they're useless. Of course not! Footslogging boyz can be used with good results. But not cause of their damage. When i played a footslogging horde, most of my games vs shooty opponents were won with mek gunz, lootas and scoring blobs that made the opponent think i'd rush him - basically distracting from the really important things - than just getting to cover and sitting there scoring points. And most of my wins vs melee-oriented opponent, i couldn't do anything meaningful to him in melee. Yep, i killed a few bodies but i lost way more point-to point. Even so, it took him so long to maneuvre and get rid of blobs that lootas and lobbas made their job and everything else...yep, scored.

 koooaei wrote:
Half the armies i face nowadays are psy deathstars.

Are they unbound lists?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically, you can't discount psy, crons and stuff like wraithknights. Sure, vs regular things ork damage output is ok. But vs things that really matter it's not ok. So, you have to compensate it with speed. Hence why footsloggas are not amazing. Not only cause they're very vulnerable. They also can't pick their fights. Relying on damage output of 30 boyz and 1 pk is just not gona cut it when they can't put a dent in any more or less worthwhile melee unit and will have troubles surviving any more or less shooty unit or catching any more or less mobile unit... Well, you got what i mean. They do have an advantage when you play extremely defensively and don't move - just sit in cover, go to ground and try to win a scoring game. It's unorky but it works unlike rushing across the board with a bunch of slow weak dudes with ld issues.

Greentide used to be a thing. But i'm really not sure if it's gona cut it now with even more psy powers that nullify their strengths. Not saying that they're useless. Of course not! Footslogging boyz can be used with good results. But not cause of their damage. When i played a footslogging horde, most of my games vs shooty opponents were won with mek gunz, lootas and scoring blobs that made the opponent think i'd rush him - basically distracting from the really important things - than just getting to cover and sitting there scoring points. And most of my wins vs melee-oriented opponent, i couldn't do anything meaningful to him in melee. Yep, i killed a few bodies but i lost way more point-to point. Even so, it took him so long to maneuvre and get rid of blobs that lootas and lobbas made their job and everything else...yep, scored.

OK, well, I play mechanised Orks so I don't have this problem with picking fights or getting shot up on the way in. However, my main close combat punch comes from my boss' squad - he rides in a wagon with the painboy, 16 sluggas and a nob with a power klaw, and they annihilate most things they touch, especially if I give the boyz 'eavy armour. Even if I charge multiple units simultaneously. What typically happens in my games is a turn-two charge that makes or breaks it.

Re: more or less worthwhile melee units... honestly, there are only a couple that my boyz really struggle with. And this also assumes that I *need* to pit my boyz against those units toe-to-toe. This is where my flash gitz and killkannon come in.

It sounds a bit like you think boyz suck merely because you can't just mindlessly send them in - unsupported, on foot and in the open - against certain powerful units with psychic buffs that units from other armies would also struggle against.

 Krusha wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Half the armies i face nowadays are psy deathstars.

Are they unbound lists?

No, they just usually include either a libconclave or sorcabal. Both are very hard to deal with as they can make a chosen target invulnerable. That's one of the reasons i moved away from footsloggers. Cause they just don't work in this enviroment the way i want them to work. Acting as a baublewrap that's useless in a fight game after game is getting annoying quickly. You put them in a truck - bam, problem solved. You roll around a deathstar and murder their support winning a scoring game cause all they can do is delete 1-2 units per turn and score one flag and probably deny one at best.

Bully boyz have worked great for me for the exact same reason. They can roll around and pick their targets. And unlike boyz they have a chance to tarpit when done right. Mass klaws and fearless are good. And they do murder pretty much any support. Even Knights. Though, the sorcabal is more problematic here cause they sometimes get 2 invises making their deathstar and one of the knights very hard to deal with.

Well, maybe you could try out the classic footsloggas in a game or two - it'd widen your perception of the dex. You know, like the standard 20-30 strong blobs rushing the board. The last time i tried doing this in a 'friendly game' i ended up facing 2 wiverns and it was pretty much over by turn 3. the time before that was vs ravenwing + libconclave which i could once again do nothing against and i couldn't even reach their support. It was still a struggle and i'd win by 1 point if the game ended turn 5 but it didn't. The game before that was very long ago vs tau. I went to midboard and didn't even try doing anything else cause i'd not be able to. Too many dead too fast. Though i was lucky with maelstorm and won a game by a few points cause the game ended early. And before that...was looong ago when i first faced IK. Was vs 2 knights with some SM. And once again, lootas and lobbas killed sm, boyz scored and died to knights stripping a hullpoint here and there. Still won due to scoring but the boyz themselves didn't kill a single thing.

See, my point comes from my gaming experience. When you play footsloggas, you start realising pretty quickly how much faster, tougher and deadlier (also cheaper) everything else has become.

 Krusha wrote:
Re: the striking 100+ times after invisibility etc, it might not be "unheard of" but is it really common?

Only been playing 7th Edition for a few weeks, but from what I've seen it's not *particularly* common (and "100 hits 0-1 wounds" is a massive overstatement), yet common enough that you have to account for it. As in, most of the armies you'll see won't get it, but a few of them will, and when they do it can be a nightmare.

Throwing 100 dice at the problem seems like a reasonably good solution, and since Orks are good at throwing 100 dice at everything every turn it's maybe not such a big deal for them. They're generally looking for 5s to hit with shooting anyway, so they'll probably find it less frustrating than a Marine player who's used to having reliable weapons.

100 dice at necron wraiths is 1.3 dead wraith. Out of 6. If you manage to pull a charge which is unlikely. If you don't, it's 0.6-0.7. Oh, that's before the RP re-roll they might also get. And you'll get less than 100.

If you want, can do some calculations for invisible/enduranced/rr-save stars like csm, eldar and all sorts of sm like to field. I mean if you don't play vs psychers or necrons - good for you. But i find myself in this matchups quite often.

Anywayz, i think it's pointless to argue that there are WAY more unkillable units than there used to be in 5-th. No matter what amount of damage you can pull off with conventional means, it's never going to be enough unless you ignore at least part of their enhanced protection. What you can and should do is ignore the unkillable and go for what your regular boyz can deal with. And that's achievable with speed.