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The rite of war gives my walkers and tanks free extra armour, a 4th heavy support choice and my marines can charge after firing rapid fire weapons but count as dissordered. Strategic genius lets me steal the initiative on a 5+ and also allows me to re-roll failed or succesful reserve rolls as long my warlord is still alive.

The terminators will likely go in the assault ram along with the chaplain. Praetor might hitch a ride. The whirlwind and the vindi's deploy in the center. The javelins either outflank or deploy depending on the mission. Tacticals likely in reserve or with the vindi's. Quad guns hide behind the battle line. Contempors keep close the tanks.










2500pts Iron Warriors

Model Count: 55

HQ - Praetor "Warsmith" - 185pts
Artificer armour, iron halo, digital lasers, paragon blade, powerfist


Rite of War: The Hammer of Olympia

Warlord Trait: Strategic Genius


HQ - Centurion "Chaplain" - 95pts
Artificer armour, power maul




ELITE - Legion Terminator Squad - 235pts
sgt with chainfist
3 chain fists, 1 power fist, 1 plasmablaster


ELITE - Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery - 170pts
2 quad launchers
incendiary shells x2, shatter shells x2, splinter shells x2


ELITE - Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - 180pts
2 kheres assault cannons, extra armour

ELITE - Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - 180pts
2 kheres assault cannons, extra armour




TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour


TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour


TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour





FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles



FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles



FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles





HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Whirlwind Scorpius - 130pts
Multi-melta, extra armour

HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Caestus Assault Ram - 315pts
2 missile launchers


HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Vindicator - 130pts
Laser destroyer array, extra armour


HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Vindicator - 130pts
Laser destroyer array, extra armour

You dont get to choose your warlord trait and a Warsmith has the predefined warlord trait, shatter defences.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you havent got any siege tyrants or iron havocs? To be honest this is a niceish list but just to make you aware it is incredibly soft.

I like it, I'd put PF or MB on all the tac sgts. MM on Scrop???
Like no phos-cheese (+1).

 King Amroth wrote:
You dont get to choose your warlord trait and a Warsmith has the predefined warlord trait, shatter defences.

At this tournament you choose warlord traits, only special characters are struck with their trait.

 King Amroth wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you havent got any siege tyrants or iron havocs? To be honest this is a niceish list but just to make you aware it is incredibly soft.

I like tyrants but they're expensive, I also like iron havocs but they die too easily for their cost. I wouldn't call this list soft, but again, it's for a tournament. We don't use 30k scenarios either, it's all objective based and all four missions allow assault from reserve like 5th. Helps speed things up.

https://ottawawargamers.ca/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=16642




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
I like it, I'd put PF or MB on all the tac sgts. MM on Scrop???
Like no phos-cheese (+1).

I've considered dropping the multimelta on the scorpius to give all the tac sgt's meltabombs, we'll see after I get some games in. I should probably be running a siegebreaker and phosphex instead of the chaplain but I can only be so evil

I would check with your TO then as Warsmiths are treat the same way as special characters in that way, they have shatter assault and only shatter assault, you dont roll etc.

Tyrants are expensive because they are insanely good. Iron havocs die easily? Not sure how that works, they are a t4 3+ save with heavy bolter/autocannons that can take lascannons and ml. give the sarge arty and put them in cover and they will kill a vehicle squad/superheavy etc per turn or vaporise a nasty squad.
Honestly i would say get rid of the assault ram it isnt going to do anything useful with those five termies and i assume the preator so drop the termies too, lose the chappy as you will only take leadership in combat and your gonna be killed in 1 assault phase by just about any melee speced unit.
So turn the chappy into a siege breaker (to fulfill the needs for HOO) make the warsmith an ordinary praetor so he doesnt give up extra vp.
Take 10 seiege termies and put the praetor and siege breaker in it, instant 20 Krak missiles with tank hunter.
consider phosphex since you now have a siege breaker but repect if you decide not to, it is tempting.
Drop the rhinos and give your tacs an apothecary each, the rhino isnt gonna do anything that moving through cover and running wont and will cost you.
The mnortis should both do you quite well, the vindis are a good choice and the whirlwind is good but trading it for something more useful would set you up well.

I would check with your TO then as Warsmiths are treat the same way as special characters in that way, they have shatter assault and only shatter assault, you dont roll etc.

I'm the TO; they're not actually special characters so he can choose.

Iron havocs die easily? Not sure how that works, they are a t4 3+ save with heavy bolter/autocannons that can take lascannons and ml. give the sarge arty and put them in cover and they will kill a vehicle squad/superheavy etc per turn or vaporise a nasty squad.

We don't play with area terrain, it's all direction based, which largely makes the game more tactical, but conversely also makes any barrage weapon even more deadly. The amount of quad mortars and Leviathans in pods in our metatend to paste havocs right away.

Honestly i would say get rid of the assault ram it isnt going to do anything useful with those five termies and i assume the preator so drop the termies too, lose the chappy as you will only take leadership in combat and your gonna be killed in 1 assault phase by just about any melee speced unit.

It's not going to deliver a unit of powerfists and praetor that can reroll to hit? Because that's very useful. Not sure how any melee specced unit will not only survive, but kill that in 1 assault phase.

Take 10 seiege termies and put the praetor and siege breaker in it, instant 20 Krak missiles with tank hunter.

The majority of people use spartans. 20 tank hunting S 7 shots don't matter and become an incredible point sink.

Drop the rhinos and give your tacs an apothecary each, the rhino isnt gonna do anything that moving through cover and running wont and will cost you.

If his squads were larger, I'd agree with the apothecaries, but for 10 man squads they don't do much, especially since they cost more and protect less vs barrage. Also nothing has move through cover

'Moving through cover' all infantry can do that. You just roll 2 d6 and pray.
The directional terrain makes more sense to why you wouldnt take havocs but not by much.
Your meta is going to allow a unit of 5 powerfists to attack? Good on you then.
They do only get the flare shield on the front arc remember, although why are you worried about spartans? Its a spartan, they die so fast its embarrassing and unless there is a primarch in there they are just a nice big smile when your opponent sets it up and you giggle at the points they wasted.

Ignoring all of this though which i understand could be dependant on your meta a 5 man termie squad with two characters even if one is a praetor will be pasted in cc and is actually going to be the only threatening thing on the board when those two vindis die turn one, which means assuming they actually arrive on turn 2 they will be hoping that they either kill in the opponents phase or they will be evaporated.

At a points level where primarchs and superheavies arent unusual having very little in the way of force projection and what is is very scattered makes it a quite soft list.

Mixing things around to pop perturabo in there could fix it and with assault from reserve could be a big boon on turn 1 to remove some very nasty things that are going to remove the teeth this list actually has.

You make a lot of statements like "spartans die so fast its embarrassing" and "those vindis die turn one" and "the unit will be pasted in cc"

How and/or what is doing this? Are you assuming a ton of graviton rapiers for spartans? Because graviton is the only thing that kills them easily. The front arc is quite significant on a spartan and usually is pointed at the direct to fire guns that can kill it.

There's a decent amount of things that can kill a vindi turn one, but both is a bit harder. Only a select amount of lists can get stuff in close enough that guarantees them dying.

His terminator unit will die to a 10 man terminator unit with character or primarch and friends, but other than that there's not much. The caestus is very hard to shoot down as flyers go, so it can be harder than you think to stop them from charging.

Maybe you could explain the reasons behind some of these things instead of just making value statements?

Spartans die fast because they have 5 hull points and arent super heavies. S8-9 is not unusual at all and neither is heavy volume fire power. It is a box with 4 lascannons that costs over 300 points.
Its only what is inside that makes it worth anything and the same can be said for the assault ram.
My meta doesnt really see much graviton at all, yours may be different.
I would expect them to die from long range shooting to be honest, with so little of threat on the table turn 1 they would be the clear choice.
His terminator unit would probably die to a 5 man terminator unit with lightning claws a praetor with paragon blade and a chaplain or whatever, forced saves will be hard to ignore when you only have 5 ablative wounds on the unit, hell buff it to 8 and you can still get them in the assault ram but the unit will have a bit more energy.

Ok....

Strength 8 and 9 by themselves are really not quite useful at killing a spartan. Str 8 needs 30 hits to hull point it. In the side. So for most cases you need strength 9 to get the same result. There's literally no unit I can imagine that can put out enough fire power to kill a spartan quickly in a Legion list that can kill it through its flare shield. A battery of medusas might be the only thing that can reliably kill one. Any person who uses a spartan and doesn't at least pivot it to face the units with strong anti tank deserves to lose.

I agree the vindicators will be the clear choice of targets in most cases, but he can easily just park rhinos in front of them to deny line of sight, on top of using terrain. We don't play with 1 piece of terrain in each corner and a huge no mans land.

As for the termintors, you you know mathematically you kill 4 with praetor, LC termies and Chaplain (depending on chaplains gear) for a total cost of 500pts. If you charge. That's so astronomically bad its insane, especially when you can just look out sir and tank wounds off the characters he's for sure going to have in the squad, further reducing the total number killed. Now, assuming the unit in the very hard to kill flying assault transport charges, its almost a guarantee the wounds will be tanked and spread out, so assuming you do 3 wounds to his characters before I1 (which is above the odds) you still take 13 ap2 wounds back, 10 of which cause instant death. your unit is going to die.

I'm really not sure what you're basing your statements off of, because it certainly isn't math

I don't think Spartans are that easy to pop, but the math seems a bit off.

Lascannons vs. Front Arc: AV 14, Flare Shield reduces Lascannons S9 to S8, so 6's to glance with no penetrating hits. On average, it would take 45 Lascannons shots at BS 4 to glance a Spartan to death. 45 shots (0.67 hit %)- 30.15 "wounds", (0.17 armor penetration roll%)- 5.1255 HP.

Side shots with no Flare Shield: 24 shots (0.67 hit %) 16 "wounds" (0.33 armor penetration roll%)- 5.28 HP -> this is just stripping HP. Factor in that you can make a penetrating hit- out of the 16 armor penetration rolls, 2.72 would be a penetrating hit, rounding up to 3 (or down... doesn't matter much)- Lascannon is AP2, so +1 on the armor penetration roll, you are rolling 2-7 on the Vehicle Damage Table, you have a 0.17% chance to Explode the Spartan. This of course disregards things like Armor Bane, or Ordnance, or something else that allows extra or reroll dice for Armor Penetration roll. Which are, of course, pretty abundant in 30K. In which case, the required shots go down dramatically.

Spartan's also typically carry high value targets (Primarchs, Praetors and Command Squads, etc. etc.)- things that would make you want to focus your firepower on. Each meta is a bit different, but Spartans are a typical transport for a lot of 30K armies.

Is your Praetor, Chaplain, and Terminator Squad really going to foot slog it across the table? Or are you running them in the Caestus, so that they may not show up at all until turn 4, and won't be able to assault until turn 5? Or best case, they turn up turn 2, and assault on turn 3.

Reaper Batteries are very nice, but it's too bad you have to have them in a unit. Just makes them a bigger target. /shrug Pretty much a staple in 30K armies these days.

I like the Mortis Contemptors! Should be able to shred just about any flyer that gets within 24".

I've never been a big fan of HK Missiles, especially on a Fast Attack Skimmer that already has a MM and TL Cyclone ML. You could probably save some points there. Three separate Javelins are intriguing.

A MM on the Scorpius seems redundant and very. very inefficient. You should be parked behind LOS blocking terrain or cover, and just lobbing shots every turn. Nothing should ever get close enough to require the MM, much less using the MM to pop another tank- a very dangerous gambit for a Scorpius. If your opponent wants to waste a Drop Pod and Support Squad with the right weapons to destroy the Scorpius... well, he just spent over 200 points to blow up 115 points. And he now has a squad so far out of position, that it might as well be useless for the rest of the game.

The Caestus... seems very expensive, and won't come in until around mid game on average. And after is delivers its cargo, it will do what? Fly around and ram everything? Doesn't seem like a good way to spend those points. But if it works for you...

I like the Vindicators, pretty typical if you ask me. They should be able to do some work.

My last point: Having only three troops squads, minimum sized with no Apothecaries rolling around in Rhino's as your only scoring units, seems like a pretty big gamble.

Overall, pretty good army. You got all your bases covered except maybe close combat, but hopefully you will have shot any CC units to death or so severely weakened them that your HQ unit and Termy's will be able to clean them up. If I was fighting your list with the given rules for your meta, my target priorities would be the three Troop Rhinos, then Vindicators, the Reapers, and Scorpius in that order. By then other threats would be in play, and I might modify the targets as appropriate. If I can limit the mobility of your scoring units, then I can try to wither out your fire power to hopefully claim more objectives then you.

 Tamwulf wrote:
but the math seems a bit off.

Lascannons vs. Front Arc: AV 14, Flare Shield reduces Lascannons S9 to S8, so 6's to glance with no penetrating hits. On average, it would take 45 Lascannons shots at BS 4 to glance a Spartan to death. 45 shots (0.67 hit %)- 30.15 "wounds", (0.17 armor penetration roll%)- 5.1255 HP.

Side shots with no Flare Shield: 24 shots (0.67 hit %) 16 "wounds" (0.33 armor penetration roll%)- 5.28 HP -> this is just stripping HP. Factor in that you can make a penetrating hit- out of the 16 armor penetration rolls, 2.72 would be a penetrating hit, rounding up to 3 (or down... doesn't matter much)- Lascannon is AP2, so +1 on the armor penetration roll, you are rolling 2-7 on the Vehicle Damage Table, you have a 0.17% chance to Explode the Spartan. This of course disregards things like Armor Bane, or Ordnance, or something else that allows extra or reroll dice for Armor Penetration roll. Which are, of course, pretty abundant in 30K. In which case, the required shots go down dramatically.

Your math agrees with what I said about the front, though I said 30 hits instead of 45 shots . My statement about needing Str 9 to get the same result as 8 was supposed to mean that because of the flare shield it gets downgraded to 8 in the front.

There's really not a lot of ranged armourbane weapons in a legion list, usually its just melta, which armoured ceramite stops. Sunder is usually on Str 8 (so usually not a problem).The only ordnance that's also on barrage to circumvent the shield (and of course stronger than Str 8) is medusas, primarch barrages, and basilisks. Basilisks can't roll Explodes so you'd still need a lot of shots; medusas of course can pound it into the ground. This is just out of the Legion book though, I know mechanicum can crush them between graviton/haywire and imploders.

On a side note, he is taking Strategic Genius to help with reserve rolls

Just putting it out there that Havoks have void hardened armor, so rerolls against blasts. Quad mortars are still brutal but at least you get a bit of protection against them.

 More Dakka wrote:
Just putting it out there that Havoks have void hardened armor, so rerolls against blasts. Quad mortars are still brutal but at least you get a bit of protection against them.

True but even 1 quad without phosphex can do a real number on them, even with the re-roll. i'd need a void shield harness character just to tank for them.

 Tamwulf wrote:


Is your Praetor, Chaplain, and Terminator Squad really going to foot slog it across the table? Or are you running them in the Caestus, so that they may not show up at all until turn 4, and won't be able to assault until turn 5? Or best case, they turn up turn 2, and assault on turn 3.

The chaplain is likely to go with terminators, the praetor, not every round I don't think. The praetor might go with the guns or a tac squad some games, he makes units stubborn.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Reaper Batteries are very nice, but it's too bad you have to have them in a unit. Just makes them a bigger target. /shrug Pretty much a staple in 30K armies these days.

Agreed, I just really need the second mortis. That foc is a harsh mistress.

 Tamwulf wrote:

I like the Mortis Contemptors! Should be able to shred just about any flyer that gets within 24".

Yeah I feel they're a bit under costed, the bs5 is hilarious.

 Tamwulf wrote:

I've never been a big fan of HK Missiles, especially on a Fast Attack Skimmer that already has a MM and TL Cyclone ML. You could probably save some points there. Three separate Javelins are intriguing.

They're got some strengths. For one, I can fire the cyclones and mm before deciding on firing the hk's, so they're good insurance. The unlimited range is nice, when you combine that with javelin's outflanking it can mean some nice long range side armour shots. I didn't like hk's at 10pts, but now that they're 5pts they're pretty good.

 Tamwulf wrote:

A MM on the Scorpius seems redundant and very. very inefficient. You should be parked behind LOS blocking terrain or cover, and just lobbing shots every turn. Nothing should ever get close enough to require the MM, much less using the MM to pop another tank- a very dangerous gambit for a Scorpius. If your opponent wants to waste a Drop Pod and Support Squad with the right weapons to destroy the Scorpius... well, he just spent over 200 points to blow up 115 points. And he now has a squad so far out of position, that it might as well be useless for the rest of the game.

I may be dropping it for meltabombs on all the tac sgts. That said, in my last two games it really did work, the fact that the scorpius launcher isn't ordnance helps a lot and the multi-melta is no slouch in terms of range, 24 is half the main weapon but still pretty good. Plenty of my targets have not only been within 24 inches, but often had los to them. The other thing to keep in mind is in the tournament missions units can assault after outlfanking or walking off their edge so it's quite common to see people use reserves and actually outflank. Nice to have that multi-melta when something scary rolls on from the nearest edge. But alas I will probably be dropping it, we shall see.

 Tamwulf wrote:

The Caestus... seems very expensive, and won't come in until around mid game on average. And after is delivers its cargo, it will do what? Fly around and ram everything? Doesn't seem like a good way to spend those points. But if it works for you...

Well with choosing warlord traits, I've ensured that I can do all I can to make sure it comes in on time. Strategic genius will let me re-roll reserves and also help with going first, stealing initiative on a 1/3 instead of 1/6. But yeah, it is expensive and it is a bit of a gamble, if I don't get shot down though there's a world of hurt comin out of that thing.

 Tamwulf wrote:

I like the Vindicators, pretty typical if you ask me. They should be able to do some work.

Yeah, they're disgusting at taking out armour, they're too cheap if you ask me

 Tamwulf wrote:

My last point: Having only three troops squads, minimum sized with no Apothecaries rolling around in Rhino's as your only scoring units, seems like a pretty big gamble.

The troops are there to do pretty much nothing but score. I'll likely put the majority in reserve. They do have the ability to charge after rapid firing so I could see just reserving the squads seperate from the rhinos, so I could repid fire then charge off the edge.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Overall, pretty good army. You got all your bases covered except maybe close combat, but hopefully you will have shot any CC units to death or so severely weakened them that your HQ unit and Termy's will be able to clean them up. If I was fighting your list with the given rules for your meta, my target priorities would be the three Troop Rhinos, then Vindicators, the Reapers, and Scorpius in that order. By then other threats would be in play, and I might modify the targets as appropriate. If I can limit the mobility of your scoring units, then I can try to wither out your fire power to hopefully claim more objectives then you.

Here's hoping I don't get assaulted off the board

Udpated the list

I dropped the multi-melta on the scorpius, it turns out I needed it to finish the third javelin. I also dropped the incendiary and splinter shells from the quad mortars. I gave all three tac squad sgt's meltabombs. I gave the warsmith meltabombs, I also bumped the chaplain up from articer to cataphractii.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2500pts Iron Warriors

Model Count: 55

HQ - Praetor "Warsmith" - 190pts
Artificer armour, iron halo, digital lasers, meltabombs, paragon blade, powerfist


Rite of War: The Hammer of Olympia

Warlord Trait: Strategic Genius


HQ - Centurion "Chaplain" - 120pts
Cataphractii terminator armour, twin-linked bolter, power maul




ELITE - Legion Terminator Squad - 235pts
Cataphractii terminator armour
sgt with chainfist
3 chain fists, 1 power fist, 1 plasmablaster


ELITE - Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery - 140pts
2 quad launchers
shatter shells x2


ELITE - Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - 180pts
2 kheres assault cannons, extra armour

ELITE - Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - 180pts
2 kheres assault cannons, extra armour




TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour


TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour


TROOP - Legion Tactical Squad - 175pts
sgt with artificer armour
9x bolters

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
combi-plasma, extra armour





FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles



FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles



FAST ATTACK - Legion Javelin Attack Speeder - 75pts
Multi-melta, twin-linked cyclone missile launcher, 2 hunter-killer missiles





HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Whirlwind Scorpius - 115pts
extra armour

HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Caestus Assault Ram - 315pts
2 missile launchers


HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Vindicator - 130pts
Laser destroyer array, extra armour


HEAVY SUPPORT - Legion Vindicator - 130pts
Laser destroyer array, extra armour

Nice looking army sir.

Why not split the quad mortars up into 2 different elite slots (you get 4 total)?

No Nunc Voxs on anything??? Need those for the Scorp and Quad guns.