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I am a long time hobbyist and massive supporter of Kingdom Death and Adam Poots. So, when I came across this seller on Ebay selling painted counterfeit KD minis, I had to get the word out however I could, for this one is located in the US.

The seller: wells.wg

Here is the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/182405260819?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT or item number 182405260819

So far, this seems to be the first recast that they are trying to sell. They are literally taking $5 recasts, slathering paint on them, and then asking $110 for them, while fully admitting they are recasts.

I messaged the seller with my concerns, and their response was unbelievable. I will post them up soon.

Please avoid this seller at all costs!

Support Kingdom Death by purchasing legit models.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the conversation we had. I didn't mean for things to get nasty, but after reading their reply on how they justify everything as a-ok, my temper got the best of me.

:(

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Me

Seriously?! Selling counterfeit kingdom death miniatures, and admitting that you are in your listing. Doesn t matter if you purchased it for personal use, can t sell this crap for it is illegal! So reported to ebay, and screenshots have been taken of the listing and your user info, and sent directly to Adam Poots. And yes, i have his email. Long time KD supporter since they first launched.

All the best... hope your other items for sale are not knockoffs too!


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wells.wg:

Really? I support Kingdom Death by replacing my fake miniatures with legit minis and you attack me for it?

I only have ever bought fake Kingdom Death miniatures when the real thing were sold out, and (as noted) I replace them with the real ones as soon as they become available. I am also Kingdom Death Kickstarter backer. And I have not lied about what I am selling in any of my listings.

FYI, I have advertised on the Kingdom Death chat on many occasions. Adam knows about my business. I've had that listing up for two MONTHS and he hasn't cared before.

And yes, I too have Adam's e-mail.

Also, FYI, I don't think you understand how the law works. Me selling a personal item of mine is not illegal. The person who sold me the unassembled miniature did something illegal, but since then, it has become a "transformative work" - ie, I painted it, which is MY skill and ability, not anything stolen. So no, I have done nothing illegal. If Adam doesn't like it, I will remove it out of respect, but only because I do respect the man and his work.

I'm not trying to make a profit on fake goods here - I just want something for my time. I'm a professional painter, so I don't want my time wasted. I also respect my customers enough not to lie to them - which is why there is a disclaimer right in the listing. I know some people want these as collectibles. I don't (I use them for tabletop gaming), but I don't want someone buying anything they aren't comfortable with.

And, seriously, did you go through and report every single seller with China reprints? There's at least a dozen. If so, then you are very dedicated. If not, then I'd like to know why you targeted me specifically for one listing when there are other sellers with literally 60+ listings who are actually doing something illegal.

Oh, and since you're backing stuff up, feel free to save this e-mail and send it to whomever you want.

Go bother someone else - I have paint commissions to work on.


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Me:

Hey Buddy,

Thank you for the quick response. Let me summarize your response, because wow... just wow. The mental gymnastics that you are putting yourself through to justify your bs, and not to mention illegal actions, is legendary.

1. You still purchased recasts. Your money went to a counterfeiter, not Adam and his hard working team.

2. Does not matter if they were sold out. You still purchased illegal recasts, and that money you gave encourages the counterfeiter to keep knocking off KD minis. Doesn't matter if you supported KD's kickstarter, you are still selling illegal goods on ebay, regardless if you put in a disclaimer. Illegal is illegal.

3. When you post on KD chat, are you posting up ads for counterfeit minis? Didn't think so. So please don't tell me this bs that Adam knows about your business and does not care that you are selling counterfeit goods.

4. Good, I am glad you have his email too. Maybe email him as well and tell him what you have done!

5. Wow. What country do you live in? "Transformative work" does not apply to illegal counterfeit goods, regardless of what you do with it after you purchase it. So, you are telling me that I can pretty much go out and buy a brick of cocaine, paint it, and then sell it without any issue because it is "transformative work." Gold medal for that routine.

6. Seriously? Not trying to make a profit? Selling $5 chinese recasts for $110 with a questionable paint job, by no means done by a professional... sure buddy. What is your CMON user name? Do you show your work there? What is your rating as a painter?

7. Yes, I usually report any recasts I see on ebay that are KD or FW. That is why I am talking to you! And you are doing something illegal: SELLING COUNTERFEIT GOODS! The only difference between you and them is that you are located here in the US. The US has very specific laws about stealing and profiting of somebodies IP.

8. Email saved!

9. You go do that. Just stop selling recasts!

Wow. Calling himself a professional painter is insulting to the actual pros. His work is tabletop at best in those images. I'll never call myself a pro, and my work is better! Good call watching out for KD, Adam, and your fellow hobbyists. Welcome to Dakka!

Good call, and good catch!

TrueCadian wrote:
They are literally taking $5 recasts, slathering paint on them, and then asking $110 for them, while fully admitting they are recasts.

This is GW practice after all. Taking something that costs small money to make and sell it for lots of money. Not seeing what is wrong here. Many companies do this. Apple also.

They are not lying what they are doing. There is nothing shady going on. Hell even people keep saying buy used and don't buy brand new from GW and go on eBay to buy product. So there is nothing really wrong with what is going on. As you have said the owner of Kingdom Death knows of this. He can have this shut down. So if he is not worried about it, I wouldn't be either.

Davor wrote:
This is GW practice after all. Taking something that costs small money to make and sell it for lots of money. Not seeing what is wrong here. Many companies do this. Apple also.

They are not lying what they are doing. There is nothing shady going on. Hell even people keep saying buy used and don't buy brand new from GW and go on eBay to buy product. So there is nothing really wrong with what is going on. As you have said the owner of Kingdom Death knows of this. He can have this shut down. So if he is not worried about it, I wouldn't be either.

Not quite, my friend. The difference here is that GW and Apple owns their IP, so they can do and charge what they want for their products.

This ebay seller is taking illegal recasts of miniatures, with full knowledge that these were not produced by Kingdom Death, the rightful IP owner, and reselling them for a crazy premium after putting a little bit of paint on them.

Adam may know about his painting commissions, but I doubt he knows about this one listing in that it is using recasts. Something tells me this seller would not be putting this listing up on KD forums, for 99% of the people there would tell him to take it down, and not to mention it is illegal to sell recasts, no matter how you get them.

The main point is what he is doing is illegal, no matter how you look at it, and it is damaging the tabletop industry.

and it is damaging the tabletop industry.

That would depend on the assumption that everyone who buys a recast would be able/willing to buy a legitimate cast. There's really no way to guarantee that and the "lost sales" argument doesn't hold water if the people buying recasts would just have not bought the product instead.

Any economist would tell you when you price above where supply and demand meet you're going to get a black market. Companies can develop various ways around that, but I'm skeptical moral panic is one of those ways.

Davor wrote:

TrueCadian wrote:
They are literally taking $5 recasts, slathering paint on them, and then asking $110 for them, while fully admitting they are recasts.

This is GW practice after all. Taking something that costs small money to make and sell it for lots of money. Not seeing what is wrong here. Many companies do this. Apple also.

They are not lying what they are doing. There is nothing shady going on. Hell even people keep saying buy used and don't buy brand new from GW and go on eBay to buy product. So there is nothing really wrong with what is going on. As you have said the owner of Kingdom Death knows of this. He can have this shut down. So if he is not worried about it, I wouldn't be either.

Honestly, did you see the "Recasts" and read the same mail chain that was posted?

I particularly like THIS little taste from the tree of knowledge....


"Also, FYI, I don't think you understand how the law works. Me selling a personal item of mine is not illegal. The person who sold me the unassembled miniature did something illegal, but since then, it has become a "transformative work" - ie, I painted it, which is MY skill and ability, not anything stolen. So no, I have done nothing illegal. If Adam doesn't like it, I will remove it out of respect, but only because I do respect the man and his work. "

THEN you have to look at the butt faced photo of that gak recast.... I haven't laughed so hard for a bit- THIS was by far one of my favorite ones. I swear I thought that this whole post was a holiday gag. With respect like that, I'd hate to be insulted...

Thanks for the heads up, however on Dakka we do not condone recasting in any way, and while this is a "warning" thread it is just as likely to cause people to seek out (admittedly nearly impossible to get) recast KD miniatures.

As such I'm going to lock this thread, and in the future the best way to hinder a recaster is to report them to ebay and Not publicize them... any link you post will attract buyers as well as those who reject it.

I hope this makes sense, any questions just PM... Thanks