Switch Theme:

Thinking about Starting 40k  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



South Bay Area, Ca

Hi and thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm considering about making the jump into this game. I've watched some battle reports online and although there seems to be some randomness, it looks fun. A lot of the models also look amazing. However, I'm torn with what army to start. Mostly between skitarii, and militarum tempestus, but there are a lot of others that caught my eye too. Can anyone give any advice on either one of these armies? Pros, cons, play-style and what the best way to get started would be?

I was thinking start with small games (not sure what is considered small) maybe kill team? And grow from there. I'm more of a relax and have fun kind of gamer, if that helps. Any assistance is greatly appreciated

Gruntz 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





Littleton

First off hello and welcome to the game! I play Astra Militarum and Skitarii so while I don't play straight tempestus I do have some. First off, both are fairly small armies, doing really well when they are allied in with other forces. Of course that doesn't mean they can't be played by themselves either! Skitarii are absolute beasts against elite armies, with rad weapons double wounding and onagers rocking invuln saves they can be an amazing shooting force. Their mellee units are super fun if not on the weaker side, mainly being fragile and difficult to get into combat. Tempestus play a lot like dark eldar, fast moving and hard hitting but very fragile. They are a fairly unforgiving army tactically but can be super rewarding when those ap3 shots are put in the perfect spot. Skitarii probably have an easier learning curve, feel no pain and easy access to invulnerable saves makes them fairly hard to knock out. Really both can be fun, and awesomely the two can also be easily allied if you collect both! I hope you have an awesome time with the hobby and good luck!

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Can't say anything about skitarii, but know that tempestus on their own can be a difficult army to use. Insanely limited in their options (5 units compose the entire army), they rely on killing stuff quickly and efficiently. Very squishy guys (low toughness, average armor, and lack of close combat skills) at a high price means that if you drop in next to something and don't kill it then you'll either get shot up pretty badly or charged and murdered in close combat. They're good against 3+ armor like marines, but you waste that armor penetration against models with better armor that isn't affected or weaker armor that more shots is important.

In small games and if you're a proficient player they can do wonders, but especially as you get into larger games (1000 points and up) you'll likely start wanting more variety. An idea would be to start with militarum tempestus, playing stuff like kill team or 500 points, and transitioning into an army that you'll use it as an allied force for. Imperial guard specifically allows scions to be run as an elites choice in the army, and I tend to prefer imperial guard orders to tempestus orders because guard have ignores cover (marine bikes can't jink to get a cover save against the AP3).

Try to read up on your choices as much as you can before you take your pick, and even then try to know what sort of build you want to use. If it matters to you, read the "fluff", or backstory of all the armies. Look at what all models can be taken and see if any strike your fancy. Check out tactics threads or reviews of the army or batreps of the army to figure out if the playstyle appeals to you. There's no rush to make your pick, make sure you buy something you'll want to keep. Nothing worse than buying an army, realizing it's not what you thought it was, and selling it for a good bit less than you paid (assuming you're not a professional painter).

Do you have a local gaming store you plan to play at, or know anyone that plays? I don't know how common all scion armies are, but see if you can find someone that'll let you run them in a game or at the very least proxy something else as scions (maybe standard guardsmen). Obviously if you're new you won't fully understand how the army plays, but some idea is better than no idea.

Best of luck in starting the hobby, and hopefully I didn't scare you away from buying what you want. Some people forget that it's about having fun.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



South Bay Area, Ca

@SplinteredShield - Thank you for the reply and the insight. I was unaware that they can work together. That's pretty convienient! How would I start with a combined army? Just buy a "start collecting" box for each? I still haven't picked up a rule book but I'm looking on eBay today for one.

@kingbobbito - Thank you for replying. The scions are what grabbed my attention, so combining them sounds like the route I'll go. Either with skitarri or maybe a small guard force. I could see myself making two small armies. I like "fluff" it gives me stuff to read/research, which I'm always doing. Unfortunately I don't have a gaming group, and the one local store doesn't have a dedicated night to 40k. So after I buy whatever I decide to get, I figure I'll just show up at a game store and see what happens. Don't worry, you didn't scare me. You're right, some people forget most things in life should come down to enjoyment.

Is there any other way of finding a game group besides stalking at the local store?

Thanks again for all assistance.

Gruntz 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Where do you live? bigger cities means more people.

A good way to get started is to connect with people through the local GW facebook, or a hobby shop nearby that has a similar service.


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





Littleton

Yep! No problem! Any two formations can be run together, and considering skitarii and scions are both imperial armies they work much better allied than other factions. The start collecting box just happens to be a formation for each army and you could play them together right out of the box! I agree the best way to find people is finding a hobby shop that has one or online like the player finder here. Youd always be welcome at my group if you happen to be in the Denver area.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



South Bay Area, Ca

@ marmtag - South San Jose, Ca.

@SplinteredShield - I really appreciate the offer but Denver would be a bit of drive for me. Not to bite off too much, too soon but would these two armies work better with different ones? Or can they work good together? From what I've been reading and what you said earlier suggest these work best as "allies" in other armies. Just thinking ahead of what will work well. I'm definitely getting the skitarii starter box for now. But looking at options for down the road. Also, any prediction on how the possible new edition could affect allies? Thanks again for taking the time to answer all my noobie questions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/15 07:17:46


Gruntz 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





The nice thing about imperium armies is that they all work pretty well together.

Skitarii seem like they were made to go with the cult mechanicus. So much so that a lot of people questioned why they were even separate codexes. They came out around the same time, have the same paint scheme, and are closely related in the lore. The get started with skitarii box even comes with a tech priest which is a cult mechanicus model. It is a strange relationship, and one that frustratingly requires purchasing two books.

Tempestus on the other hand seem like they were made to go with astra militarum. So much so that there units are in the astra militarum book so you could buy one book to run both armies. However you would be missing out on some tempestus specific artifacts, orders and lore.

If you don't have a dedicated play group I would focus on what you want to paint right now. The motivation can be tough sometimes especially if you are not enthused about a model. If and when you start playing the game you can worry about what is good and bad. The game's balance is not great. Its great to say just go with your heart and paint what you think looks coolest, but showing up every week and getting stomped is not very fun. On the flip side spending a ton of time researching and coming to a new group with your tournament ready list is not a great way to make friends in a lot of circles.

Skitarii scale well. Everything they have is good, but nothing is overpowered. After you buy the get started pack there are lots of other models you can buy to add to the force. On top of it the models are gorgeous. I bought the get started pack and it never fails to catch people's eyes when they look at my display case.

Tempestus on the other hand do not really scale at all. The get started box comes with every model in there line. They are cool models, and can ally in with any other imperium army so you don't have to worry about abandoning them as you build up your force, but they are never going to be a full army. While they seem made to go with astra militarum. Personally I don't love the astra militarum models. They are pretty old, and don't excite me like the newer stuff does. They also are unfortunately much less consistent with some models that feel useless to play with.

There is nothing forcing you to go cult mechanicus or astra militarum though. They will work just as well with any flavor of the imperium armies.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



South Bay Area, Ca

Coblen - Thanks for all the input. I'll look more into the Cult Mechanicus. Now I just have to build and paint what I got.

Gruntz 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





I don't recommend starting 40k.

From what I understand, the average time that people actually stay in the game is about a year.

The rules are terrible. The balance is terrible. And it's very expensive.

Not to mention that the player community is, again, absolutely terrible. Just read dakka forums.

It's as bad or worse than than the Dark souls player community.

My advice to you:

TURN BACK! TURN BACK!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 06:50:22


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Mississippi

 Traditio wrote:
I don't recommend starting 40k.

From what I understand, the average time that people actually stay in the game is about a year.

The rules are terrible. The balance is terrible. And it's very expensive.

Not to mention that the player community is, again, absolutely terrible. Just read dakka forums.

It's as bad or worse than than the Dark souls player community.

My advice to you:

TURN BACK! TURN BACK!


I'll chime in here and ask that you ignore 99% of what Traditio has to say. He's a renowned troll on here and generally viewed as both a terrible player, and problem child here on Dakka.

That said, if you want some primo entertainment later on once you're more acquainted with the hobby and game, go back and read some of his post history. It's HILARIOUSLY bad.

Now, that said, if you like Scions and Cult Mech/Skitarii then you can certainly play both.

My suggestion is figure out which of these armies you want to be your primary force for starting out. Once you have that determined, you can go in and build the second as a smaller allied force which plugs in nicely with the primary army list.

Were I you, I would build Cult Mech/Skitarii and ally in the Scions as a nice way to get some deep striking surgical strike teams to both deal with threats, and also support your primary army's advance while moving toward/making objectives.

If you'd like some input or compare notes I'd be happy to offer input. Just shoot me a PM on here and I'll offer what help I can to you.

Best of luck, welcome to the hobby also! We'll be here to help if you need it. Just remember: Ignore Traditio and any advice he offers should be avoided like the plague.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.  
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





Littleton

Traditio, I normally just sit and read all your threads, in fact you're known as the guy to my wife, but all things considered hating the rules or what have you, why play the game if you're at the point of telling new people not to play. That attitude could snuff out the hobby you theoretically enjoy and then what would you complain about? Yes, you could ally them with any number of forces, but for example I'm one of the rare few that doesn't like mechanicus much, but I love Skitarii so even with their lower variety I play Skitarii alone and often with IG allies so it's not weird to ally in with the less common alliances in favor of your own! 40k is amazing in that you can create all the reasons your specific soldiers are on the field together and that's the best part for me. You'll have a great time in the hobby, just find groups of people like Thirst here who also enjoy the hobby and it'll be great.

 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 SplinteredShield wrote:
Traditio, I normally just sit and read all your threads, in fact you're known as the guy to my wife, but all things considered hating the rules or what have you, why play the game if you're at the point of telling new people not to play. That attitude could snuff out the hobby you theoretically enjoy and then what would you complain about? Yes, you could ally them with any number of forces, but for example I'm one of the rare few that doesn't like mechanicus much, but I love Skitarii so even with their lower variety I play Skitarii alone and often with IG allies so it's not weird to ally in with the less common alliances in favor of your own! 40k is amazing in that you can create all the reasons your specific soldiers are on the field together and that's the best part for me. You'll have a great time in the hobby, just find groups of people like Thirst here who also enjoy the hobby and it'll be great.


Here are the facts:

1. From what I understand, the average is 1 year. 1 year. If the OP is an average player, he'll stay in the game for 1 year. That's it.

Think about that. Why do you think the game has such a high turnover rate?

2. In a recent poll done by JNAProductions, it was found that roughly 40 percent of 40k players are dissatisfied with the game. Of those who are dissatisfied, most of them are VERY dissatisfied with the game.

Those are facts. Interpret them how you want. But those ARE the facts.

This game is fething terrible. GW deserves to fail.

OP:

This game isn't worth it. Don't bother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One further point:

8th edition is likely to drop this summer. We don't really know what kind of rules changes are in store.

Even if you are a complete masochist and did want to start playing this incredibly bad game...

...

...now is a terrible time to start. Wait until 8th drops to make any real decisions.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 12:16:08


 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

I'm a newly returning player (going to go do my first games in over 4 years later today, actually), and my perspective and approach to things as they are now might also line up with your situation a bit.

First off, with the fall of Cadia going on now, and 8th edition dropping sometime this year (likely June-ish), investing in a massive force at the moment is not likely to be a good idea. I'll be focusing on Killteam until then, and you probably should to. Better yet, the armies you're interested function as allies, so Killteams with either forces can easily scale into smaller games without a huge amount of extra investment, while still letting you dip into either pool.

Above all, focus on models you like. 40k's rules are atrociously bad, and there's no point in wasting your time trying to paint and field a model you hate just to serve a ruleset that isn't necessarily all that fun on its own. If you aren't going to get much joy out of your models (and the people you play with) on their own, you're not going to get much out of the game itself.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 15:36:05


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Just be aware before buying any books or at least the rule book, a new edition is rumoured to be coming in June. So it may be well if you can hold off on buying the rule book because it will be invalidated and most people only play with the current rules edition.

Also know that how you play now for the next 5 months, could change your play style in the next edition. For some people they like this, others hate it.

If possible magnetize your options. What is good great now, can be horrible next edition.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt






if you're stuck between militarum tempus and the skitarii, I'd go with militarum tempus. because they only need one book, even though skitarii arguably look better. however if you want my opinion on a fun army that you can play lightly, go with orks. they are relatively cheap compared with other armies as far as I know and they are some of the most different looking models, with even some of the same type of people looking completely different. if that makes any sense. they also have somewhat simple rules, and they can have a lot of models even with a small amount of points, which looks neat to have a big army. however with all that said, they are a trash tier army, making competitive play sudo-impossible.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 13:48:26


 
   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Gruntz wrote:
Hi and thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm considering about making the jump into this game. I've watched some battle reports online and although there seems to be some randomness, it looks fun. A lot of the models also look amazing. However, I'm torn with what army to start. Mostly between skitarii, and militarum tempestus, but there are a lot of others that caught my eye too. Can anyone give any advice on either one of these armies? Pros, cons, play-style and what the best way to get started would be?

I was thinking start with small games (not sure what is considered small) maybe kill team? And grow from there. I'm more of a relax and have fun kind of gamer, if that helps. Any assistance is greatly appreciated


Relax and have fun does help - it's probably the most enjoyable way to play 40K.

Starting small is definitely the way to go - as others have mentioned a new edition is rumored to be released this year. That said, go with the Start Collecting box for whichever faction you chose. It gives you enough models for a decent Kill-Team, and comes with it's own formation so can can easily team up with other players to contribute to larger games.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Regardless of the rules, collecting the miniatures is fun.

And, when 8th edition drops, it'll make sense to get it. But you can get an e-book of the 7th ed rules for like $30 i think? That's what I did. When you go into your GW store, they're going to tell you about the ways you can get the rulebook. As a part of a 3 book set, as a part of Kill Team (but it's not the rules), and a part of Dark Vengeance. That's all they sell in the store. The ebook is great and if you have an ipad it's actually more convenient. I can look up rules way faster than my friends with the hardback copy. Just don't go out drinking one night and boom, cost covered easily.

And people love to complain. "40% of the people who participated in the poll voted dissatisfied." Yet if you read that thread, there are people in there voting max dissatisfaction admitting to a) never buying any miniatures and b) never played the game even once. They voted that way because they view it as expensive. Really? It is human nature to focus on faults. The majority on this forum are satisfied with the game, those dissatisfied generally want minor changes made to the game, not a sweeping reinvention of the rules & universe. For example, "consolidation of rules for easy access," or "elimination of 1-off special rules." Most center around streamlining the play or minor balance tweaks, not fundamentally changing things.

Anyway, I'm connected to a group of 7 who all picked up the game recently, each with a different army. If you want some details on each persons' experience shoot me a PM and i'll share.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



South Bay Area, Ca

Thanks everybody for all the great info. It's really appreciated. I've put in an order for the both the skitarii and militarum tempestus get started boxes as well as the kill team box set. I figure this way I'll have some stuff to take my time working on and a few things to learn with.

Red_Thirst and Marmatag - PM's will be inbound.

Thanks again everybody. Maybe in a few months (I'm a really slow painter) I'll throw some stuff up in the gallery. Now to figure out a paint scheme.

Gruntz 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Mississippi



I'll offer what assistance I can.

Take it easy & looking forward to hearing from ya.

-Red__Thirst-

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.  
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi Gruntz, welcome to 40k! Anyway everyone has been helpful already in answering your questions, and I was wondering if this is your first time into the foray of table top games? If you are, you could check out some of these videos on the painting/modding part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1uiPe3FfuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbJIrH-QHV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWios4SghrQ

These are from warhammer's official channel and Duncan teaches people how to paint and convert stuff and its also good for veterans who want a faster workflow for their painting as well.

Also you are right with starting with a killteam box as its easier to grasp the game with lesser models.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: