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Let me preface this with saying I have taken Zhad to a few tournaments and finished well.

So Zhad is 150pts he is exactly the same as a warboss except for a few things.

#1: When hes your warboss you can take bikers as troops
#2: He has a PK that swings at Initiative 4
and
#3: Has Skilled Rider.

His bike is equipped with a TL big shoota instead of TL Dakka Gunz, so twice the range, but not much use because if you aren't in range of Dakka Gunz your probably going to be Turbo-Boosting to get that 2+ Jink save.

He has a 6+ save but his stats are otherwise the same as a Warboss on a Bike.

A Regular Warboss on a bike With a Powerklaw costs 110pts. He gets his 4+ save from the Bike though. So those 40 Extra points are giving you At initiative PK, Skilled rider and the ability to take Bikes as troops and TL Big Shootas which aren't all that great to begin with, and even worse when his unit is comprised of models with half the range. He also doesn't have any upgrade options.

Ive always said that Orks are over priced to begin with but I want your guys opinions. Do you think Zhadsnark is
A: Worth his Points and
B: Worth Taking

Absolutely, it's one of our best choices. Is better than a standard warboss because he can't re-roll but can strike at I4 and his bikers are more durable due to better cover saves and no terrain tests. But his real strenght is the chance to take bikers as troops, because you can field a lot of them on the board and can grab objectives very efficiently as they're obj sec and very fast. I prefer him than a biker warboss with da lucky stikk, which costs only 10 points less. Actually 15 but you won't need the bosspole on the nob, so taking zhadsnark costs exactly 10 point more than a standard warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

A Regular Warboss on a bike With a Powerklaw costs 110pts

No, it's 135 because no matter what list you're going to take you must include da lucky stikk.

 Blackie wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

A Regular Warboss on a bike With a Powerklaw costs 110pts

No, it's 135 because no matter what list you're going to take you must include da lucky stikk.

I tried to keep it as similar to Zhad as possible. if your going to include DLS then yes add the price but you then have to add in the numerous benefits it gives over what Zhad can provide. +1WS, Reroll to hit, to wound, armor saves.

I'd say he's definitely worth his points, but really only worth taking if you plan on running tons of Warbikers. If you're only running 1 or 2 squads of Warbikers, I think a regular Warboss or Nob on a bike w/ Powerklaw does the same job.

He is the only way to build a decent bike army, but his rules are too much of a hassle / mismatch with the current edition for me to field him.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

A Regular Warboss on a bike With a Powerklaw costs 110pts

No, it's 135 because no matter what list you're going to take you must include da lucky stikk.

I tried to keep it as similar to Zhad as possible. if your going to include DLS then yes add the price but you then have to add in the numerous benefits it gives over what Zhad can provide. +1WS, Reroll to hit, to wound, armor saves.

Yes of course, but i still thinking zhad is better than a biker warboss with da lucky stikk. Biker troops spam is really big.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

A Regular Warboss on a bike With a Powerklaw costs 110pts

No, it's 135 because no matter what list you're going to take you must include da lucky stikk.

I tried to keep it as similar to Zhad as possible. if your going to include DLS then yes add the price but you then have to add in the numerous benefits it gives over what Zhad can provide. +1WS, Reroll to hit, to wound, armor saves.

Yes of course, but i still thinking zhad is better than a biker warboss with da lucky stikk. Biker troops spam is really big.

Very true, but you can now get away with having multiple CADs and basically have that anyway. Multiple Formations allow 3 FA choices so for the price of 4 units of OBSEC Grots I can take 6 units of bikers no problem and the added bonus of taking even MORE HQ choices.

True but you would have the gretchins tax...those little ones are good only for screening more valuable units and to make lists legal. They have poor shooing and they're very weak, also slow so they're useful only in your deployment zone basically. MSU troop bikers means they can grab objective everywhere, being obj sec and very fast. Also a min unit of bikes is 54 points, gretchin are 35. But bikes are more resilient, mobile and have more powerful shooting. Our HQs are not that good, two of them, maybe three are enough. You want meganobz, bikes, lootas, mek gunz, solo deffkoptas, tankbustas, min units of boyz on the battle field, not a lot of warbosses and painboys. But going double CAD with standard warbosses and trukk spam is a competitive way to play orks too, that's for sure. It's just a single unit of 8-12 bikes including the HQs is better if you go without zhadsnark, the MSU bikes concept fits him not orks in general.

 Blackie wrote:
True but you would have the gretchins tax...those little ones are good only for screening more valuable units and to make lists legal. They have poor shooing and they're very weak, also slow so they're useful only in your deployment zone basically. MSU troop bikers means they can grab objective everywhere, being obj sec and very fast. Also a min unit of bikes is 54 points, gretchin are 35. But bikes are more resilient, mobile and have more powerful shooting. Our HQs are not that good, two of them, maybe three are enough. You want meganobz, bikes, lootas, mek gunz, solo deffkoptas, tankbustas, min units of boyz on the battle field, not a lot of warbosses and painboys. But going double CAD with standard warbosses and trukk spam is a competitive way to play orks too, that's for sure. It's just a single unit of 8-12 bikes including the HQs is better if you go without zhadsnark, the MSU bikes concept fits him not orks in general.

You can't take Mek Gunz in a Zhad army btw

And Grots are used to take back field objectives. When those are taken the enemy has to devote something to removing them or yield that VP. Don't get me wrong, they wont win most fights but if they hunker down in some cover they can be annoying little buggers. Think how pissed a SM player is going to be having to deepstrike (Drop pod) a 150-200pt unit into the backfield to take grots out.

Lootas aren't that good. I have yet to play a game where they are anything but a minor annoyance to my enemy. Even when they roll high (3 shots each) they are still only likely to hit 1 time so 5 of them are only doing 5 S7 AP4 shots and while they do have good range (48) they have to be held in cover because whenever someone sneezes in their direction they die in droves and then run away because they barely benefit EVER from Mob rule.

So to get back on point here. you can do everything Zhad can do with multiple CADs as far as taking lots of Warbikers. We just don't have any I4 S10 Ap2 attacks to replace Zhad. Keep in mind though that Zhad has 6+ armor so whenever he gets singled out (Precision shots) he dies fairly easy.

Yeah i know, no mek gunz with zhad, but they're among our best units, lobbas at least, i meant to say that going double CAD is for taking more of those units, not our HQs. Lootas shine only in MSU going double CAD or with the blitz brigade (you need other heavy supports, not only lootas), try 3x5 of them. But i prefer mek gunz, bikes and tankbustas for shooting. Zhad also makes bikers a bit more resilient with skilled rider, better cover saves and no terrain tests. I typically lose a bike every game or two due to terrain tests. I like him a lot but as he doesn't belong to the ork codex or the ghaz supplement i use to run a standard warboss on a warbike or a megarmored one as the warlord of the army. Maybe a single painboy in some bullyboyz lists.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah i know, no mek gunz with zhad, but they're among our best units, lobbas at least, i meant to say that going double CAD is for taking more of those units, not our HQs. Lootas shine only in MSU going double CAD or with the blitz brigade (you need other heavy supports, not only lootas), try 3x5 of them. But i prefer mek gunz, bikes and tankbustas for shooting. Zhad also makes bikers a bit more resilient with skilled rider, better cover saves and no terrain tests. I typically lose a bike every game or two due to terrain tests. I like him a lot but as he doesn't belong to the ork codex or the ghaz supplement i use to run a standard warboss on a warbike or a megarmored one as the warlord of the army. Maybe a single painboy in some bullyboyz lists.

Zhad only makes Bikers more resilient in his unit. The other bikers are still the same.

Tankbustas aren't great now. 9 Tankbustas can reliably put out 3 S8 AP3 shots a turn that will hit, with tank hunter. Thats not enough to scare most vehicles, especially when the range is 24in not 48

Well, playing trukk spam is among the most competitive ways to play orks, i run 3x5 tankbustas with 3 bomb squigs each... with 345 points you get 18 s8 ap3 shots, 15 with tankhunter and 9 that hit on 2s. Potentially 3 melta bombs. Tankbustas are worthy only in MSU or in a blitzbrigade with 2x10. But they're very good played this way. Our best anti tank however are pks, especially killsaws in meganobz units.

I love Taking Zhad so i can roll double CAD so i have a painboy in a squad of 10 bikers and a painboy with my Mega DLS warboss in a wagon with 16 boys. anything cries when that hits it. and another squad of boys in a trukk some grots to camp on an objective backfield and them 6 solo deff koptas and often a squad of tankbustas in a looted wagon for the av11.

 Ubl1k wrote:
I love Taking Zhad so i can roll double CAD so i have a painboy in a squad of 10 bikers and a painboy with my Mega DLS warboss in a wagon with 16 boys. anything cries when that hits it. and another squad of boys in a trukk some grots to camp on an objective backfield and them 6 solo deff koptas and often a squad of tankbustas in a looted wagon for the av11.

Fun fact, put a warboss on bike with DLS in Zhad's squad and either get Nightfighting or Turbo boost 1st turn and guess what? Your warboss has a 2+ rerollable Jink save

I've ever used him. I don't like Special Characters. I think from what I've read he should cost more points than he does.

 warhead01 wrote:
I've ever used him. I don't like Special Characters. I think from what I've read he should cost more points than he does.

And why do you think that? Hes weaker then a regular Warboss on a Bike because he has a 6+ save and no access to DLS or better armor. His big take away is making bikes troops which you can just take 2 CADS to get as many bikes as you want. S

You are forgetting oubout his other unique abilities.
-Striking at I with a power klaw ( used to be rarer than it is now )
-Tank shocking with a bike outside the movement phase...
This last one is potentially devastating and the source of all sorts of rule mismatches.

I routinely play a guy who uses like...30? 35? Ork bikes and it is a NIGHTMARE to play against. All Ork bike lists are pretty decent, all things considered.

And why do you think that? Hes weaker then a regular Warboss on a Bike because he has a 6+ save and no access to DLS or better armor. His big take away is making bikes troops which you can just take 2 CADS to get as many bikes as you want. S

If he's riding a warbike he has a 4+ save. Due to the Warbike.
I don't care about his access to anything. He's a Special Character and has fixed equipment and abilities.
He makes a unit other than boys troops for his whole army.
He should cost as much as he does or more just for that. I'd prefer more. Oh, and doesn't he have a power klaw like weapon that strikes at his Inish..

You are forgetting oubout his other unique abilities.
-Striking at I with a power klaw ( used to be rarer than it is now )
-Tank shocking with a bike outside the movement phase...
This last one is potentially devastating and the source of all sorts of rule mismatches.

Here it is.
That and I don't like Special Characters. It really irritation that so much revolves around having or having to have these few named characters.

A few things about Zhadsnark:

1) His tank shock is a pain to use due to problems with the rules.

2) If you attach him to a unit of bikers he does give them scout, which is useful.

3) If you do take 2 CADs then you spend points on trukkboys which depending on who you ask are better or worse than ObSec bikers (don't have any experience with the bikers) or on objective camping grots. If you use Zhad you can buy min size bike squads which can camp objectives while turbo-boosting around the backline and still threaten to move forward to contribute more.

4) You can buy more bikers per point if you want more than three squads with Zhad than with double CAD (if someone wants I'll check the math).

5) His warlord trait specifically states that you "may not include any Deff Dreads, Killa Kans or Big Gunz." If you take RAW in a very literal sense then the current ork codex has Mek Gunz, not Big Gunz, so interpreted that way you can use lobbas. Some people also interpret his rules to mean that you can't use Kannons, Lobbas, or Zzap guns because those were the ones that were under the Big gunz entry, but that you can use the new Mek guns. In addition even if you interpret his rules to deny access to the artillery that you want you can still use gun trukks or big trakks to get access to the old big gun weapons.

6) edit: as far as I can tell he doesn't have a warbike in his listed gear so he's stuck with a 6+ due to the bike type not giving him an armor save.