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2015/07/05 21:19:35
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.
This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.
He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.
The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
There will never be points values.
On to the slightly positive stuff then.
They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.
GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.
GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.
This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.
He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.
The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
There will never be points values.
On to the slightly positive stuff then.
They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.
GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.
I guess this is easy to corroborate, we just need someone else who went to the weekender.
Much of it lines up though, and it appears "balancing mechanic" and "scenario play" aren't necessarily the same thing.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I agree with anybody that says that getting a perfectly balanced game is hard, if not impossible, but it doesn't help when GW go out of their way to deliberately skewer their system in favour of one force.
Example, a few years ago, the dark elf army book came out.
At the time, an unarmoured human with a spear cost 5 or 6 points.
In the new dark elf book, for 6 points, you got a dark elf spearman with light armour, shield, and the ability to re-roll misses in the first round of combat.
And he had superior stats to his human counter-part.
According to GW, a highly skilled elf warrior aged 1000 years was worth the same as a human peasant with a pointy stick...right...
The worst of it was Gav Thorpe more or less admitting that the Dark elves got this over powered treatment to boost sales...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/05 21:27:09
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
All elves having ASF was a horrible horrible mistake and instead of realizing that GW kept doubling down with each subsequent elf book.
As for AOS, I'm in the camp that with some sort of balancing system this could have been amazing. It would have been easy to release the AOS version of War of the Ring in a year or so as well for mass battle after more of the new miniatures and such were out. oh well.
2015/07/05 21:27:40
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
wana10 wrote: All elves having ASF was a horrible horrible mistake and instead of realizing that GW kept doubling down with each subsequent elf book.
As for AOS, I'm in the camp that with some sort of balancing system this could have been amazing. It would have been easy to release the AOS version of War of the Ring in a year or so as well for mass battle after more of the new miniatures and such were out. oh well.
I actually thought ASF made sense for warriors who had been fighting for 1000 years or more, combined with Elven dexterity, but the points cost never reflected this boost.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/05 21:33:21
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
ImAGeek wrote: You really like the idea of having a prescribed force for each battle?
For competitive play? Yes.
If majority of the game is won before play starts because a player is good at Beautiful Minding out some min-max force, that gets to be frustrating to some of us.
Thread Slayer
2015/07/05 21:43:49
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Very well since Warhammer fantasy is truly dead. I think that GW should release a free PDF version of warhammer fantasy 8th edition and the army books for them. If there is not going to be another edition of warhamemr fantasy battle then give the old vets who have built up armies over the past years a parting gift beyond the End Times. A swan song much like what happened with the Mordheim and Necromunda special rules.
2015/07/05 21:44:05
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.
This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.
He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.
The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
There will never be points values.
On to the slightly positive stuff then.
They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.
GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.
I figured the old models were going to be toast and this confirms it. The corporate line is this is a serious game. Only time will tell, but I'm sure there's a lot of lost good will with a good portion of the customer base.
2015/07/05 21:46:32
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
That would be something awful, if true. Unless of course it led to a mass dump-off of armies on eBay for prices that are practically giving the figures away. That would be the opposite of awful.
2015/07/05 21:47:24
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
2015/07/05 21:54:40
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
Yeah, because instead of just squatting all of the old armies, they decided to shame people with them into giving them up for new garbage. People should accept this and buy as much new garbage as possible since GW gave them such a gift.
No thanks. This is not the sort of company I care to do future business with, especially in a saturated market where I have a vast number of choices.
2015/07/05 21:57:18
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I wonder if the new Orruks (and other re-imaginings) are going to be different in just aesthetics or scale as well. It would seem foolish to make WH-AOS at a different scale than WHFB, but it's hard to tell based on the images of the Chaos human mauraders.
If it's just aesthetics, I think that's a good idea, but if it's changing the scale as well to force new army purchases...well I think that will be a big mistake.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/05 21:58:16
2015/07/05 21:57:20
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
This is not GW giving away puppies.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/07/05 21:58:12
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.
The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
This is not GW giving away puppies.
Sure it is - incontinent puppies with rabies....
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2015/07/05 21:59:51
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Commissar-Danno wrote: Very well since Warhammer fantasy is truly dead. I think that GW should release a free PDF version of warhammer fantasy 8th edition and the army books for them. If there is not going to be another edition of warhamemr fantasy battle then give the old vets who have built up armies over the past years a parting gift beyond the End Times. A swan song much like what happened with the Mordheim and Necromunda special rules.
Nope.
"Feth you all".
2015/07/05 22:00:37
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
shade1313 wrote: So, truly, "Feth all you guys who have long established armies. Feth you all to hell, and we're going to laugh while we do it."
Giving you everything you need to continue using your old armies without having to pay a dime isn't what I imagine someone does when he wants to feth you, but I suppose interpretations can differ.
Posters on ignore list: 36
40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.
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2015/07/05 22:01:02
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
You can't understand how some people might be upset to find the armies they've been collecting for years are going to be squatted and that the lore and fluff is no more? This isn't a free puppy, it's a slap to the face.
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
2015/07/05 22:02:12
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I'm kind of excited for the release, I'm wanting to get the AOS box but I don't want the chaos guys, I need to find someone who wants to buy them... Any takers haha
On another note it does seem they are really putting everything into this release, I'm not a warhammer veteran but I've always liked the miniatures and wanted to get it and AOS seems like a good chance for me.
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
This is not GW giving away puppies.
Never said it was, bud.
Simply saying that the nonsense that gets posted constantly about how GW shouldn't do this or that because they'll "lose good will with a good portion of the customer base" has been so overplayed that it detracts from any real criticisms.
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
You can't understand how some people might be upset to find the armies they've been collecting for years are going to be squatted and that the lore and fluff is no more? This isn't a free puppy, it's a slap to the face.
And it's commentary like this which makes valid criticisms even more difficult to take seriously.
"It's a slap to the face." isn't a bit hyperbolic?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/05 22:04:16
2015/07/05 22:05:44
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again: GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
Most of the people who don't have nice things to say about GW weren't buying GW product anyhow. Like, "I'm going to sell off all my models on Ebay and I'm never going to buy GW again!" Dude, you said you'd never buy GW stuff a year ago.
A few of the people who seem like they were neutral or favorable to GW are so incensed with AoS not having points that they say they're parting ways. On the other hand, some folks who haven't bought any GW product for a long time are going to give it a go on the strength of nice, cheap models, and some favorable batreps. So on the forum side, they're probably a wash. And then a lot of the people who love 40k are just going to buy it anyways.
Which is actually good news for GW, because listening to the Interwebz, you'd think GW was already out of business and couldn't sell a glass of lemonade on a hot summer day... when they're actually pretty good at making and selling miniatures. In other words, GW surely outperforms the Forum Performance Index, because judging from the forums, GW's sales should be negligible, and KoW should be the #1 wargame. Or WMH, I guess, but nobody seems to be talking about that much now, so they must be going out of business too. O.O
Incidentally, does anyone live in an area where there are still WD75s for sale? Every store including the GW store was sold out before they hit the shelf. Which actually makes me think. GW should just start bundling minis with their $5 magazine (Canadian dollars), LOL. How many WD's would they sell?!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/05 22:07:11
2015/07/05 22:06:10
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Commissar-Danno wrote: Very well since Warhammer fantasy is truly dead. I think that GW should release a free PDF version of warhammer fantasy 8th edition and the army books for them. If there is not going to be another edition of warhamemr fantasy battle then give the old vets who have built up armies over the past years a parting gift beyond the End Times. A swan song much like what happened with the Mordheim and Necromunda special rules.
Well, you can pirate it all guilt-free now since it's out of print so it'd be a fairly hollow gesture for GW to release a special snowflake version just to appease your ego. Particularly since they did that whole "end times" thing for you AND wrote you all these warscrolls.
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2015/07/05 22:06:45
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I like that supposedly GW is trying really hard to make this work. That's...very unfortunate, as this product is quite possibly one of the biggest piles of crap they've ever produced (or is certainly in the running for it).
It's a damn shame that they couldn't have just put that effort into making WHF better. Personally that's why I don't believe it, it's too stupid. "Let's blow up the world, kill a game people have invested years of their life and thousands of dollars into, alienating all these customers and losing the vast majority of them in the process to competitors, then create this horrid joke of a game to act as its 'replacement' with a completely different art style, background, and models (and supposedly even scale), and then we'll start advertising that game and doing everything we can to make it successful, including making all of the rules completely free, which we acknowledge is part of what killed WHF but couldn't just do it for WHF because...uh..."
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2015/07/05 22:13:22
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
So yes Im extremely happy with the news that Orcs will be discontinued, how could I not be? I mean the fluff is gone and the game is gone and now the models will be scrapped.
Sidstyler wrote: I like that supposedly GW is trying really hard to make this work. That's...very unfortunate, as this product is quite possibly one of the biggest piles of crap they've ever produced (or is certainly in the running for it).
It's a damn shame that they couldn't have just put that effort into making WHF better. Personally that's why I don't believe it, it's too stupid. "Let's blow up the world, kill a game people have invested years of their life and thousands of dollars into, alienating all these customers and losing the vast majority of them in the process to competitors, then create this horrid joke of a game to act as its 'replacement' with a completely different art style, background, and models (and supposedly even scale), and then we'll start advertising that game and doing everything we can to make it successful, including making all of the rules completely free, which we acknowledge is part of what killed WHF but couldn't just do it for WHF because...uh..."
This would be more meaningful if you didn't already despise GW's game systems I mean, it's not like you liked Fantasy Battle or 40k, right? IIRC, you thought the players in your area were all out to wreck the fun for everyone else, too (so yeah, AoS would probably be the last game on Earth that would be successful there!).
2015/07/05 22:15:30
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
This is not GW giving away puppies.
Never said it was, bud.
Simply saying that the nonsense that gets posted constantly about how GW shouldn't do this or that because they'll "lose good will with a good portion of the customer base" has been so overplayed that it detracts from any real criticisms.
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
You can't understand how some people might be upset to find the armies they've been collecting for years are going to be squatted and that the lore and fluff is no more? This isn't a free puppy, it's a slap to the face.
And it's commentary like this which makes valid criticisms even more difficult to take seriously.
"It's a slap to the face." isn't a bit hyperbolic?
Then how bout you ignore the invalid criticisms and try addressing the valid ones?
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/07/05 22:16:16
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.
When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2015/07/05 22:17:17
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
This is not GW giving away puppies.
Never said it was, bud.
Simply saying that the nonsense that gets posted constantly about how GW shouldn't do this or that because they'll "lose good will with a good portion of the customer base" has been so overplayed that it detracts from any real criticisms.
Kanluwen wrote: Said it before, saying it again:
GW could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!".
Quite frankly, GW can't do anything without "losing good will with a good portion of the customer base" if you listen to posters on forums.
You can't understand how some people might be upset to find the armies they've been collecting for years are going to be squatted and that the lore and fluff is no more? This isn't a free puppy, it's a slap to the face.
And it's commentary like this which makes valid criticisms even more difficult to take seriously.
"It's a slap to the face." isn't a bit hyperbolic?
I was following your hyperbolic lead with "no matter that GW gives you awesome things, people will still call it a personal attack."
I was going off of your parable or whatever. Perhaps you should examine your own arguments a bit closer?
Edit:
And yes, you did say it.
W could go up and down the street giving people free puppies and still there would be people shouting that "GW tried to kill me--I'm allergic to dogs!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/05 22:18:30
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
I mean, it's not like you liked Fantasy Battle or