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 IHateNids wrote:
Of course. Easy mistake to make.

I wish they could cut them down wholesale XD

Hamernators struggle to do that

That's the issue I have with Lychguard. We pay terminator prices for a 3+ save, and we EITHER have a good weapon but less survivability, or better(ish) survivability but can't get through a 2+ save. Whereas Hammernators have both, and are probably the same cost if not cheaper.

same cost

which is where we fall flat.

I find that more of our stuff is improperly costed than is actually under/over powered.

A Few exceptions of course (Praetorians/Flayed Ones spring to mind)

The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.

 vipoid wrote:
The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.

That as well. We have Night Scythes, which aren't assault vehicles, and we have VoD or Ghostwalk Mantle, which is "Deep Striking". So, kinda screwed on that front.


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 IHateNids wrote:
same cost

which is where we fall flat.

I find that more of our stuff is improperly costed than is actually under/over powered.

A Few exceptions of course (Praetorians/Flayed Ones spring to mind)

I would love a reason to take Praetorians over wraiths, and I would love a reason to take Flayed Ones at all,

 vipoid wrote:
The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.

The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.

Ffyllotek wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.

The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.

That only transports Warriors, which, have Rapid-Fire guns.

Ffyllotek wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.

The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.

If you consider +5 points each to Scythe Lychguard worthwhile for getting Ever Living, then yes. You can take a five man court as "Lychguard" equivalents in a Ghost Ark.

Otherwise you're out of luck.

Don't even try Sheildguard emulation. The invulnerable saves'll sink double their points worth.

I hope they make some of the units no one ever uses a bit more viable.

I hope they change the Tesla mechanic so it doesnt proc on Snap Shots.

Lychguard are really good if you ask me.
I just can never justify their 40 points outside of Apocalypse, so they stand around for 11 months until I can actually play them without feeling bad.

With the GK-Terminators and BA-Sanguinary Guard I hope/expect that they also become 33 points. Perhaps even 30.
At 30 points they still aren't perfect, but they will surely see more play.

AlexRae wrote:
I hope they change the Tesla mechanic so it doesnt proc on Snap Shots.

Hmm, only if they also buff Immortals.
The sole reason I take them is to see their overwatch, other than that I prefer Warriors.

I prefer Immortals over Warriors myself. A Marine Save with what's basically a FNP against shooting and S5 for the entire squad is great.

Optimal if you do the math? Meh. Not too bothered. The more elite soldiery fits my play style better.

I will be annoyed if I have to run them all as Gauss because all the joy was nerfed out of Tesla though.

Ghost Arks probably go to Fast Attack.

 adamsouza wrote:

Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP
Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit

Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ?
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things.

There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.

morgoth wrote:

Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost.

Only if you ignore their I5, battle focus (run and shoot), counter atack, plama grenades, and fleet

Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol

Has to deploy from reserves, shoots twice, flys off table, maybe gets another turn or 2 of shooting after re-entering board

Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ?

Why do people get butthurt that it does better than other weapons while snap shotting ?

Necrons have 2 flavors of weapons Gauss and Tesla, both trigger on rolls of 6.

Getting extra hits on 6 is the reason people use Tesla weapons.

Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things.

Scarabs cost 15 points per base, and are only a serious threat in large numbers, while backed by 3+, 50+ point Spyders. Devoting 900 points, 3 Fast Attack, and 3 Heavy Slots to run a proper Scarab Farm is not a minimal investment.

morgoth wrote:

Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost. Highly debatable. Warriors are tougher and better against vehicles, but Dire Avengers are better in combat and against non-vehicles (with pseudo-rending on their guns), and are also markedly faster and able to fire even after fleeting.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol The most undercosted vehicle in all of 40k is the Wave Serpent. Night Scythes might be second though.
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ? Because it sucks at everything else? If you take away it's ability to do well on snapshots, what's the point of Tesla over Gauss - which has the same strength, better AP, gets twice the shots at 12", and can hurt any vehicle in the game?
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things. And will die to anything that looks at them funny. There is a lot of S6 in the game right now.

There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.

I'm not sure the Barge is way undercosted. I agree 90pts is too cheap, but I really don't think it needs a huge price hike.

The Nightscythe... I have no idea. It seems like you'll end up either make it too expensive to even consider, or still cheap enough that people will carry on spamming it. Maybe the more important factor it its status as a dedicated transport? Perhaps it should just be a FA choice like the IG Valkyrie and Vendetta. Though, frankly, I think the flyer rules in general are in dire need of a drastic redesign.

As a question, what are people's thoughts on Quantum Shielding? Do you think it will stay the same? Do you want it to stay the same? Any changes you'd like to see made to it?

I'm all for Quantum Shielding being changed into something like "downgrade all hits (penetrating->glancing->nothing) on a 4+, but I suspect it's probably just going to turn into Shrouded or a straight-up Invun save.

Quantum shielding will stay.

Yeah, Quantum shielding doesn't need to be changed, and will probably stay the same.


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Yeah, Quantum shielding doesn't need to be changed, and will probably stay the same.


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morgoth wrote:


Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers at killing vehicles for the same point cost. Warriors suck in combat, are not as mobile, and are only good at killing vehicles, plus have no options for squad upgrades. Also, don't have any real synergy options in their codex, unlike Eldar, whom can make DA even better.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol Undercosted, yes. That doesn't make it OP. The fact that it has a NON-ignores cover, non-pinning, short-range Serpent shield-esq weapon as it's one and only option does not make it OP.
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ? Why does the Serpent Shield have to ignore cover? Because that's the selling point of the weapon. Otherwise, Tesla would be nothing.
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things. Again, to vehicles. And that's it. Also, you play Eldar. You have S6 coming out your rectums, whereas Necron's S6+ IS Tesla, that's it.

There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.

Here's an idea: Raise lord and overlord characters to I3 and have Hyperphase Swords grant a +2 Initiative bonus.

Suddenly you feel less like Shield Lychguard is a downgrade, and Lords have a reason to pick Swords over Scythes.

changemod wrote:
Here's an idea: Raise lord and overlord characters to I3 and have Hyperphase Swords grant a +2 Initiative bonus.

Suddenly you feel less like Shield Lychguard is a downgrade, and Lords have a reason to pick Swords over Scythes.

That would be cool.


Also, Staffs of Light. Make them power weapons again....

Oh, yes. Bring back SoL power weapons. Now that they'd be Mauls, them being power weapons doesn't even invalidate the Hyperphase Sword option!

so SoL vs Warscythe becomes

S7AP4 concussive + 3 S5AP3 shots @ 12"

or

S7AP1 Armourbane (hopefully no unwieldy)

if that became true, I would have Hyperphase swords be the default option

All I want changed for crons at this point is mss changed to "A model in base contact with a model with Mind Shackle Scarabs must take a leadership test at -2ld before any to hit rolls are made. If successful nothing happens. If failed the model takes 1 automatic hit at its own initiative with one of its weapons used during the fight sub phase."

This way my crons don't completely shut down any and all CC oriented armies free without my poor opponents being unable to actually play the game. I have a massive hatred towards rules and equipment rules that bypass your opponents ability to actually do as he had intended. In this case, sink 3-5 hundred points into something like a Daemon Prince only to have it kill himself. Not to mention the warscythe got a rediculous, and in my opinion, completely unwarrented buff. They are the Tau of melee in my books and with this change it would still make them dangerous, but not "Avoid or forfeit your game".

The solution is always simple: Don't get in B2B with the Lord
If the DP takes the Charge that should be quite easy.

MSS is only dangerous if the Necron-player gets the charge ánd there is nothing else in B2B.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).

Point reduction for Destroyers... and this is completely wishlisting on my part but Heavy Destroyers returning to Heavy Support OR the max squad size of Destroyers is increased to 10.

I really would love to see Destroyer Wing becoming a viable option once more.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).

No. GW would never give a rule like this to anything but the Imperium, even though it's from a C'TAN phase blade. So, no point in wishlisting.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).

No. GW would never give a rule like this to anything but the Imperium, even though it's from a C'TAN phase blade. So, no point in wishlisting.

It is a wishlisting thread, so... there is a point.

Ironically enough, Warscythes used to ignore invulnerable saves outright before any Imperial was doing it... back in the awful codex nobody played...

I think that to keep the Hyperphase Sword in line with the other two, it should come paired with a Particle Caster automatically. That way it's a choice between +1 attack at S5 AP3 and a short-ranged attack, normal attacks at S7 AP4 Concussive and a better short-ranged attack, or S6 AP1 Armourbane with no ranged attack.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ironically enough, Warscythes used to ignore invulnerable saves outright before any Imperial was doing it... back in the awful codex nobody played...

I think that to keep the Hyperphase Sword in line with the other two, it should come paired with a Particle Caster automatically. That way it's a choice between +1 attack at S5 AP3 and a short-ranged attack, normal attacks at S7 AP4 Concussive and a better short-ranged attack, or S6 AP1 Armourbane with no ranged attack.

Yeah, but combine that with everything they have now, it would be stupidly powerful, and would receive a lot of hate from pretty much every who doesn't play Necrons.

Like we don't get that anyway, just slightly less than Eldar?