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Most likely, Veterans will stay as Elites, or be nerfed if moved to Troops

Reecius wrote:And Janthkin, thanks for reminding us of the good old days! Ah yes, the auto hitting ripper gun was rad. But, I will take 5th ed rules over 2nd ed any day.

Cram Ogryn in Chimera. Drive Chimera 20+ inches and RAM the unit of heretics. Chimera flips over, Ogryn fall out (wounded from the crash). Ogryn open up with drum-fed shotguns at point-blank range, then dive in and club the survivors into submission.

Then a vortex grenade eats the whole mess.

5e has much more streamlined rules...but 2nd had better imagery.

*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Janthkin wrote:
*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

I think you just described what's wrong with the whole internet, lol. This mentality kills me.

Can't wait for the book. I've never liked Ogryns, but this makes them sound wicked cool. SO excited for Rough Riders and such.

Janthkin wrote:*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Correctamundo... a word I've never used before and hopefully never will again.

Death By Monkeys wrote:- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

Isn't this what is rumoured for Necron Warriors?

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

Isn't this what is rumoured for Necron Warriors?

Shhh...you'll give away the secret that Ogryns are the next generation of Necron Flayers.

No no no,you got it all wrong, the bone heads are actually infiltrating periahs! Purge them!

Anyways, I think it's quite smirk-worthy that people suggest to make ogryns able to take a charge from THE dedicated assault units in the whole game, namely assault terminators, nob bikers and bloodcrushers. Yeah sure, the imperial guard will have access to the toughest melee unit in the galaxy...

Come on people, don't get a guardgasm just because the rumors turn out rather good. The Ogryns look like a nice tarpit unit that can take some punishment but will fail against some dedicated assault units. I for one think GW will make the guards competitive again without making them overpowered.I don't need another creep fest with 5th edition.

Greets
Schepp himself

The Defenestrator wrote:Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else...

Durr, who is this moron? He must be soooo dumb, not noticing Ogryn are said to also be T5, rendering everything he just said completely moot. We should totally beat him up for it.


Ogryn aside, I think the defensive weapons thing could work. They should just make IG tanks not subject to the rules regarding firing ordnance and nothing else. I think that's pretty reasonable, while a Russ driving 6" and firing a battle cannon and 3 heavy bolters isn't.

Vets as an 'ard boyz style upgrade would be fine. Pay a fee for BS4 and access to an extra special weapon. we shall see if infiltrate and move through cover stay. Though to be fair, Vets are the textbook definition of the elites Force Org slot.

Janthkin wrote:I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Here here! Let's all bitch about how horrible this codex is, and how we're all pawning off our guardsmen as fast as we can. That way, no matter what the new dex looks like, we'll be pleasantly surprised!

Bunch of nagging old hags.

Yay for cheaper Guardsmen! (Though they'll probably raise the price of heavy weapons to 'balance' out the newly cheaper squads!!!)

Valhallan42nd wrote:Yay for cheaper Guardsmen! (Though they'll probably raise the price of heavy weapons to 'balance' out the newly cheaper squads!!!)

Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if the cost of some heavy weapons was included already a la SM Tac squad.

I'm ALSO way excited for things like auto-launchers, search lights, and dozer blades to be built into the tank costs.

Scottywan82 wrote:Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if the cost of some heavy weapons was included already a la SM Tac squad.

There was a question about that over on Boot Camp and Mkoll's response was essentially that Guardsmen are 40 points for 10 Lasguns or 9 Lasgun/1 Laspistol - otherwise, they're nekkid.

Hmmm... that's almost sad. I really liked all the items that were being built into the points cost of squads in the SM book. Ah well. The tanks at least should have the "fiddly" pieces built into their costs. Hopefully Track Guards included.

Most likely vehicles will just get smoke and lights as standard kit, along with basic weapons. Chimeras will get their multi-laser and heavy bolter and the Russ variants will come with a heavy bolter in the hull.

And ten to one extra armour will go up from five to fifteen.

I am still really curious to see if we will indeed get free heavy/special weapon w/ our troop choices or at least have the point cost drop on said heavy weapons. Hate taking squads of guys and going...oh yeah 50+ 10 Wound Heavy Weapon..>YEA

I sometimes skip taking heavy weapons and just have lasguns. Then I take heavy weapon squads so that they can direct their fire more appropriately. my 3 lascannons shoot tanks, my 30 guardsmen mow-down a tactical squad.

Scottywan82 wrote:I sometimes skip taking heavy weapons and just have lasguns. Then I take heavy weapon squads so that they can direct their fire more appropriately. my 3 lascannons shoot tanks, my 30 guardsmen mow-down a tactical squad.

My mech guard do this occasionally, but mostly cause they're costly enough already.

lol! No lie. Also, the lack of heavy weapons keeps footsloggers from being slowed down if you need them to press on towards the enemy. And since 10 points is 25% of a new squad, you can get 50 guardsmen with flashlights for the price of 40 with 4 heavy weapons!

yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

Necros wrote:yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

QFT! And maybe one for each infantry squad? That would be awesome. I really can't wai to see some of the more finicky rules they come up with for army creation this time around.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Necros wrote:yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

QFT! And maybe one for each infantry squad? That would be awesome. I really can't wai to see some of the more finicky rules they come up with for army creation this time around.

Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

I do find myself running w/ little to no heavy weapons but that is mainly because I run more Mechanized now so all those Multi-Lasers help deal w/ things and the heavy flamers aren't to shabby either Toss in the odd Lascannon crew that starts outside of there vehicle and I am doing pretty well

aka_mythos wrote:Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Emperor's Scoring Masses!

14 squads in a single Platoon?!?

I'm so excited to see how this really works.

I'd assume it will still be 5 squads + cmd max, but I guess we'll see

Holy crap... that's a lot of delicious wounds!

I am really excited about this new codex too. Even if it isn't "good" in the curb stomping the heretic kind of way, I just really want to see what is done, and give it a go. Having that kind of flexibility would be absolutely great, even if the notion of painting 50+ infantry for mandatory troop choices makes my painting calluses ache

Plus side, my wife just expressed interest in painting tanks for me, so there is one "SO COOL/SUCH HATE TO PAINT!" issue taken care of

Well, if the Ogryn rumors are true, I'll finally pick up a Guard army. Big tanks blasting big shells barricaded by big, brawny, burbling brutes with baseball bats. Sounds like win to me.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Emperor's Scoring Masses!

14 squads in a single Platoon?!?

I'm so excited to see how this really works.

Yay! I'll even be able to use my mortars! What? I like mortars.

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Ok so let's play price a platoon!
Steel Legion (Works for any GW metal infantry currently available in the online store):

1 command squad: $8 officer, $8 per special weapon - $40
2-5 infantry squads: $35 for 6 lasguns, 1 missile team, 1 sarge, 1 grenade launcher - $35 - $50 per squad (50 if you buy another squad because you hate grenades and missiles)
0-5 heavy weapon squads: $17 per heavy weapon (if it's made, since autocannons and mortars aren't available it'll be $4 for bits ordering plastic weapons) - $51 - $55 per squad
0-2 Special weapon squads: $8 per spcial weapon, $35 for lasguns - $43 per squad

So to make a minimum platoon we have $110, for a maximum platoon $556.
Suddenly the fact that I only have two and a 1/2 minimum strength platoons of guardsmen doesn't bode well with me, but I have 20 russes, 9 chimeras, and tons of other tanks.
Here's hoping mechanized is still viable, or GW drops the price on metal guardsmen. I'd hate to be a DKoK player...

Dude, if those platoon rumors are ture, and platoons only give up 2 kill points total as some of the rumors indicate, Guard will be the new black, or orks as the case may be.

I am seriously fired up for this. My guard will swell up to my marine army size, which is probably stupid. I will end up playing apoc games against myself.....that is just all kinds of fail.

Seriously though, if those rumors are true, IG will be super radicalness, which is a word I just made up.

aka_mythos wrote::

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Before we all get crazy, I have to say, it seems LIKELY that the number of attachments will be equal to the number of infantry squads.

While i realize that GW DOES change its mind about things left right and center, one attachment per infantry squad would be consistant with the original 2nd edition configuration of platoon attachments, and would seem reasonable with that list. For instance why limit the heavy weapons to 5? Seems like a far cheaper method of procuring Heavy weapon squads than a heavy weapons platoon. AND they get the platoon rules now!

Seems more likely that the limit of 5 is imposed because you can only have up to 5 infantry squads.

Just my 2 cents.

Though that's not to be disappointed. DAMN that is one sweet set of rules!

I just can't help but think to myself that now my army is going to be:

HQ

Ogryns w/ Chimera
Kasrkin in Valkyrie
Kasrkin in Valkyrie

Platoon 1
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads
Platoon 2
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads
Platoon 3
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads

Sentinels
Rough Riders
Rough Riders

Leman Russ Squadron
Hydra Squadron (oh PLEASE!! PLEASE!!!)
Basilisk Squadron

And that's just using the FOC! Once I'm playing Apocalypse games, there's no limit!

I also wonder if the HQ is limited to 1 still. I kind of wished that you could put to in there so I could have 2 Infantry companies in one FOC.