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Against Space Wolves, we played the Scenario #1 - Kill Points with the traitor. Against Tau, it was Scenario #2 - Modified Seize Ground. Lastly against Stormraven Grey Knights, it was Scenario #3 - Victory Points.

Every single game was a bloodbath. Both Gus and Bobby killed almost all my infantry.

And as expected, Crowe died every single game. At least he added 2 more heads to his trophy collection - the Saga of the Warrior Born TWC Wolf Lord and Draigo.

Guess the traitor will do Vindicare's reputation well.

Awaiting you're awesome reports.

I too look forward to the reports. I'm thinking the Space Wolves may actually have the edge on your knights. I'm thinking you'll get two wins and a loss, the latter against the TWC IMHO. Can't wait man.

I hope you don't get as lucky during the 'ard boyz games or it just won't be interesting.

Your reports are fine and all, but you're SO. DAMN. LUCKY. it makes me sick and the reports not very fun to read.

"Yeah I had a single purifier. He shrugged off over 18 power weapon wounds then killed four terminators. Yup that's how we roll"

Then later another purifier wipes out some terminators? Or a pair takes out 4 or something. And the first practice game vs BA "Yeah his shooting sucked, I passed most of my cover saves, he failed all of his and I killed four predators in one turn. Game over".

It's just kind of ridiculous. I feel like grey knights are utterly broken and the report #2 just pretty much proves it. By the third turn the kill count was what, 31 terminators to 25 of your power armor marines? You do know his are supposed to be MORE durable than yours, right? And the amount you killed in close combat because EVERY model has a force weapon....how is the codex not broken again?

I hope you played well at 'ard boyz and play well at the semifinals. I'd say "good luck", but you seem to have that down pat....

I don't think it's really fair to write off all jv2's successes to luck, though I agree, he has at times been lucky. but it's not actually too unlikely to make lots of 2+ saves. Sure you expect to fail 1 in 6 but in real life probability is well... more random...

As for the GK being broken... well they can certainly produce very effective builds, but no more so than Space Fairies, Imperial Weaklings, Vampire and Werewolf Wannabe Marines, etc.

I honstly think it's just that most people ahven't worked out how to crack the better GK lists, and I think that's mainly because they're falling back on 'prevailing doctrine' rather than considering the actual specific weaknesses of each good GK list and working out how their army should counter them. for instance, i would contend that an all-paladin list, condemned for having 'too few models' and 'too few troops' in fact has neither. It just appears to if you're considering it as a list under the prevailing doctrine. So then when people play a list they thing they should table easily and lose they cry 'broken codex' rather than reconsidering their tactics.

I'd be delighted to carry on this topic in a new thread, if you'd like to start one, but I don't want to derail jv2's battle excellent battle reports so won't reply further on this side-topic here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't think it's really fair to write off all jv2's successes to luck, though I agree, he has at times been lucky. but it's not actually too unlikely to make lots of 2+ saves. Sure you expect to fail 1 in 6 but in real life probability is well... more random...

As for the GK being broken... well they can certainly produce very effective builds, but no more so than Space Fairies, Imperial Weaklings, Vampire and Werewolf Wannabe Marines, etc.

I honstly think it's just that most people ahven't worked out how to crack the better GK lists, and I think that's mainly because they're falling back on 'prevailing doctrine' rather than considering the actual specific weaknesses of each good GK list and working out how their army should counter them. for instance, i would contend that an all-paladin list, condemned for having 'too few models' and 'too few troops' in fact has neither. It just appears to if you're considering it as a list under the prevailing doctrine. So then when people play a list they thing they should table easily and lose they cry 'broken codex' rather than reconsidering their tactics.

I'd be delighted to carry on this topic in a new thread, if you'd like to start one, but I don't want to derail jv2's battle excellent battle reports so won't reply further on this side-topic here.

I could not disagree with Spellbound any more. JY's Battle Reports are incredibly entertaining, I love how close a lot of the games are the fact that neither side is a blowout proves that they are more balanced then overpowered.

Keep up the good work JY!! I look forward to your Ard Boyz reports!!!

Primal Out!

@spellbound
Haha, are you seriously mad at someone for being lucky? You must realize how preposterous that sounds? He can't help it anymore than if someone else is unlucky. It sounds like you're really mad at grey knights. Mat Ward is not a competent rules writer. His books, all but space marines, are really bad. Daemons screwed up fantasy, grey knights are throwing the balance of 40k off.

Jim is a very good player and a pleasure to game against. Is he lucky? Sure. Some of our games he's gotten crazy good luck against me. Is that something to get mad about? Hardly.

Direct your anger where it belongs, otherwise it makes you look bad.

he took the picture before I organized my army! lol. Its a very very mismatched Tau. The lovely blue battlesuits are from SabrX.

Ard Boyz Game #1 vs Thunderwolves Space Wolves

I felt that this would be a tough game for me. Right now, I think the key to beating the new Grey Knights is with a really fast army, shooting and a lot of 3++ saves. This list has it. Though my opponent didn't max out on the storm shields in his TWC units, he does have 3 per. He's got 2 really fast hammer units that can take a lot of beating. He's got some shooting to wreck my rhinos so that his TWC has infantry to assault. Lastly, he's got very flexible troops that can hold their own in assault. IMO space wolves are still one of the top dogs along with the Grey Knights and Imperial Guards. This is not going to be an easy battle. What's even harder may be to get a massacre off this army. It is a solid build.


2500 Grey Knights - Purifier-Dreads (My list)

Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 2x Sword, 1x MC-Hammer, 1x Warding Stave

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


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2500 Space Wolves - Thunderwolves


The photo is missing one of his units of TWC and Lord, but he had them for the game.


Wolf Lord - TH+SS, Runic Armor, Wolftail Talisman, Thunderwolf Mount, Saga of the Bear
Wolf Lord - Wolf Claw+SS, Runic Armor, Wolftail Talisman, Wolftooth Necklace, Thunderwolf Mount, Saga of the Warrior Born

4x Wolf Guards - All w/Combi-meltas and Power Fists
8x Wolf Scouts - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, 1x Power Weapon (Wolf Guard here)

8x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (Wolf Guard here)
8x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (Wolf Guard here)
8x Grey Hunters - Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino (Wolf Guard here)

5x Thunderwolf Cavalry - Thunderhammer, Meltabombs, Meltabombs + Storm Shield, Storm Shield, 1x Plain
5x Thunderwolf Cavalry - Thunderhammer, Meltabombs, Meltabombs + Storm Shield, Storm Shield, 1x Plain

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannons
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannons


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Scenario #1 - Git Dat Dirty Git!

Mission: Modified Kill Points

Each player gives their opponent one of their troop models. This model is now an Indepedent Character under the control of the opponent and is worth +5 KP's!

Massacre = 10+ KP's, Major victory = 7-9 KP's, Minor victory = 1-6 KP's.

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Space Wolves

Special Rules: No Scout moves (but there is Outflanking) and Night Fight on turn 1.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:


SW deployment:

Scouts are in reserves.

My deployment:

I stick 1 squad of purifiers with the traitor in reserves. Crowe will snag their empty rhino.


Vindicare infiltrates on the right flank (from my perspective).

BTW, I completely forget about my interceptors until Turn 4! Talk about mind blanks....

I steal the Initiative!!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Grey Knights 1
We both forget about Night-Fight on Turn 1!


I advance 6".


I concentrate my entire army on the left TWC unit (with Saga of the Bear Wolf Lord) and completely wipe them out!

Vindicare misses, rolling 1,1 to hit.


Space Wolves 1


SW movement. Rhinos pop smoke. TWC run.


His long fangs and lazorbacks wreck a normal dread, weapon destroy/shake 1 rhino and stun another rhino.


Grey Knights 2

GK movement. I fortitude off both the shaken and stunned rhinos. 1 unit of warding stave purifiers disembarks and heads towards his isolated left grey hunter rhino.


This time my shooting is more mild as I put several wounds on his 2nd TWC unit (including 1W on his Wolf Lord) as well as stun and immobilise his rhino (with traitor in it).


I believe it takes 2 dreads to explode his left rhino. No one is killed in the explosion.

His Power Fist TWC makes his cover against my vindicare's turbo-penetrator round this turn.


I then assault. I fail to cast Cleansing Flame and we each kill 3 models a piece.


Space Wolves 2

Scouts come in. They would miss my dread with both their melta and combi-melta.


SW movement. 2 units of grey hunters disembark from their rhinos and move up.


Grey Hunters rapid-fire and shoot down my vindicare.


Long fangs and meltas from his grey hunters then take out 2 rhinos. I believe I lose 2 purifiers in the explosion.


Scouts then assault my dread. As expected, they don't do much even with the Powerfist and the Mark of the Wulfen.


Again, my purifiers fail to cast Cleansing Flame and they get wiped out, but not before taking another 2 hunters with them.

His TWC, having to move through difficult terrain, fails to get the charge off.


Grey Knights 3

GK movement. My purifiers come in. IC splits off and gets into the empty rhino. 1 rhino heads towards his grey hunters with traitor, popping smoke along the way. Crowe goes after his TWC unit.


My shooting is piss-poor this turn. I put another 1W on his TWC Lord and kill a couple of grey hunters only.


However, his hunters fail morale and then fall back, preventing my unit of purifiers and my vendread from assaulting. Doh! They will auto-regroup next turn.


I charge 2 squads of purifiers into his scouts....


....and easily wipe them out. I then consolidate into the crater.


Can Crowe do it?


Yes! He gets massacred, but he takes along the 250pt+ Wolf Lord with him.


Space Wolves 3

Traitor splits off from the grey hunters and get into the razorback. Hunters then go after my purifier rhino.


Broken hunters auto-rally and move up. TWC prepares for a massive multi-assault.


2 units of hunters shoot and wipe out 4 purifiers.

Long fangs and razors don't do anything to my dreads (anything permanent, that is).


Grey hunters miss with their melta and combi-melta so they assault instead. They fail to do anything to my rhino.


Will my knights survive his TWC?


Luckily one of the dreads he is assaulting is my vendread and my rhino had moved at cruising speed last turn. He does nothing to them. I cast Hammerhand and this time, it goes off. The result? I only lose 1 purifier but win combat. He fails morale, I catch him and do a couple more wounds to him (and more importantly, removing 1 of his storm shields).

Grey Knights 4

Overview of the beginning of Turn 4.

It isn't until this round that I remember about my interceptors, but by the time I did, I had already moved my models and couldn't roll for him to come in.


GK movement. Right purifiers disembark and get ready to assault his grey hunters.

My shooting does little, though I did wreck his lazorback with the traitor inside.


Purifiers assault. Again I fail to cast Cleansing Flame.


Because his Powerfist wolf guard was still in base with my transport and I forgot to move this turn, he auto-hit and blows it up. Damn. That was stupid of me. I kill a bunch of hunters and he kills 2 purifiers, but because he damaged my rhino 3 times, he actually won combat. Luckily, I pass my No Retreat saves.


2 units of purifiers charge into the TWC melee to lend a helping hand. I believe 1 of the purifiers fail to cast Hammerhand. Also, my lone warding stave purifier charges his large grey hunter unit. Not only did I fail to cast Cleansing Flame, but I roll a 6,6 on my psychic test and then fail my 2++ warding stave test and die.


In the end though, I did manage to route his TWC.


Space Wolves 4

His traitor moves back and tries to hide behind the rhino (or so he thinks...).


Grey hunters go after my dread. Other unit of 2-hunters advance as well.


His GH-meltas and long fangs only manage to stun/shake my vendread (after a couple of re-rolls, that is ). He then multi-assaults my dread and single purifier.


He kills the purifier and I don't do anything to him.


I am having a really tough time in assault. Again, I peril on Hammerhand with boxcars (6,6). Luckily, my warding stave survives this time. I then fail to finish off his hunters.


Grey Knights 5

Overview of the beginning of Turn 5.


Interceptors automatically come in. They shunt to try to finish off his traitor.


GK movement. My purifiers go to help out my vendread. Other dreads shuffle around. All this time, I've been moving my right vendread to try to get a money-shot on his traitor.


My traitor in rhino moves back to get out of melta range of his 2-man grey hunter unit. He pops smoke.


Interceptors shot at the traitor, who goes to ground for the 3+ cover. I can't quite finish him off, only doing 1W (he's got 2W initially). However, my vendread is just barely able to see him and finishes him off. Booyah!


Purifiers join in the grey hunter-vendread melee, and I wipe them out.


However, I still cannot finish off his grey hunters here.


Space Wolves 5
I've got this game, question is, can I get the massacre?


His 2-hunter unit cannot reach my traitor's rhino so they opt to try to melta my dread instead. Unfortunately, they fail. His long fangs do, however, manage to immobilise and blow off 1 arm from my vendread in retaliation for killing his traitor.

I finally finish off his lone hunter with my purifiers in assault on the right.

We roll and the game continues.


Grey Knights 6

Overview of the beginning of Turn 6.


I want to kill those long fangs so badly. I need both units dead in order to table him.


GK movement. Purifiers go after his 2-hunter unit.

In shooting, I wreck what few vehicles he had left with my dreads.


I then kill off 3 of his left long fangs. Luckily for him, they pass morale.


On the right, my interceptor shooting is a little too good as they kill 4 long fangs with their shooting! They pass morale, and I now need a 6 for difficult terrain test in order to assault them. Unfortunately, I only roll a 5 so is just out of assault range.


Space Wolves 6
He doesn't do anything of significance this turn. He is just 2 units (5-models) away from a tabling.

We roll to see if the game continues and it doesn't.



Aftermath of the battle.

He's only got 2 units of long fangs left. I've still got 4 dreads, my interceptors, 3 squads of purifiers, 1 rhino and my traitor.

I got 18 KP's, including 5 for killing his traitor. He has 11 KP's so I only get a Major Victory. I also get +1 bonus point for killing the traitor, +1 for killing an enemy HQ and +1 for controlling more pieces of terrain than my opponet for a total of 20 points.



Majory Victory to the Grey Knights!!!

Well done!

Wow. Great report JY; I was worried because of the tournament setting you wouldn't take pictures, but thankfully you did and they were top-quality as always. Great report as ever.
As ever, I was wrong about the result of the battle, but it seemed like a really fun game although he seemed to be struggling with his meltas, as were you with your Psychic Tests!
I love how there so few infantry models left, all the rhinos are up-turned and this was the one game you said wasn't a bloodbath!
Great report man and very well played by both sides.

People crying luck just don't understand how the game works at 2500 points. What happens is that so much shooting exists on the table that when one gets a good round in, the game becomes effectively over (likewise if you survive a round of shooting with few to no casualties).

The discrepancy makes it near impossible to swing back. For example, the terminators game: sure, you killed more of them, but that's because their shooting was already crippled to begin with. The tide of battle, so to speak, was already going for you and there was little your opponent could do.

Great report and I am pleased to see my somewhat scathing assessment of the thunderwolves vindicated.

I think you got your target prioritsing pretty much spot on and you demolished what I thought to be a pretty nasty list. Nice one. I'd be very interested to here your opponent's thoughts on this battle if he's available to contribute.

the weird one wrote:Guess the traitor will do Vindicare's reputation well.

Awaiting you're awesome reports.

Unfortunately, no. The vindicare pretty much didn't do very much all day. Actually, he's pretty much been like that in most of my games. At least he's consistently mediocre.

Just Dave wrote:I too look forward to the reports. I'm thinking the Space Wolves may actually have the edge on your knights. I'm thinking you'll get two wins and a loss, the latter against the TWC IMHO. Can't wait man.

I also feel that TWC wolves match up well against my knights....if only he had kitted them all out with storm shields. He's got the mobility to minimize my shooting. He's got the shooting to take out my mobility and he's got decent troops. Luckily for him, my units are small and I will need to gang up on his TWC to do any significant damage. And those 2 lords, they're what concerns me the most. I can eliminate 1 with Crowe, but if I don't stop the other, he's going to do a lot of damage.

Spellbound wrote:I hope you don't get as lucky during the 'ard boyz games or it just won't be interesting.

Your reports are fine and all, but you're SO. DAMN. LUCKY. it makes me sick and the reports not very fun to read.

"Yeah I had a single purifier. He shrugged off over 18 power weapon wounds then killed four terminators. Yup that's how we roll"

Then later another purifier wipes out some terminators? Or a pair takes out 4 or something. And the first practice game vs BA "Yeah his shooting sucked, I passed most of my cover saves, he failed all of his and I killed four predators in one turn. Game over".

It's just kind of ridiculous. I feel like grey knights are utterly broken and the report #2 just pretty much proves it. By the third turn the kill count was what, 31 terminators to 25 of your power armor marines? You do know his are supposed to be MORE durable than yours, right? And the amount you killed in close combat because EVERY model has a force weapon....how is the codex not broken again?

I hope you played well at 'ard boyz and play well at the semifinals. I'd say "good luck", but you seem to have that down pat....

I didn't have as much luck at the Ard Boyz as I did in my practice games. Actually, I struggled at times at the Ard Boyz. In game 1 against Space Wolves, I kept failing my psychic tests for either Cleansing Flame or Hammerhand (I would say I failed at least 75% of them). And while my shooting was ok, my assault was poor in all 3 games (well, there wasn't much assault with Tau, but...). Though I admit that I did get a couple of breaks, overall, my poor assault and my inability to reliably cast psychic powers made all 3 games closer than I thought. There were no easy battles.

I don't blame you for considering the GK's broken. A lot of people do, especially when they are run by a good general. But then again, when the new IG came out, I'm sure many people thought they were broken. Same with the Space Wolves. The new GK's are very strong and against some armies, they may seem to be somewhat unfair. Unfortunately, chaos marines are one of them. We seem to be gravitating towards a more rock-paper-scissors game in which matchups are getting more and more important. Play against the wrong army in a tournament and you're looking to get tabled. Play against the right one and you'll probably table him. My all-comer's purifier list does very well against mech-lists, but sometimes have problems against foot lists like daemons (yes, I said daemons), foot Tau, terminator armies and even tyranids.

As for luck, well, nothing I can do about that. I've had my share of lucky games....and I've also had my share of games in which my dice just fails me. That's just the way it is.

Interesting game. I'm curious if Turn 1 Night Fight would have made a difference in the destruction of that first TWC unit.

Query:

jy2 wrote:Interceptors automatically come in. They shunt to try to finish off his traitor.

Can you do this? Is shunting "instead" of moving? If so, it seems like you'd have to be on the board first.

haha good call on taking down the Wolf Lord with Crowe! A great batrep as usual.

Artemo wrote:I'm going to rashly stick my neck out and make some predictions:

I think the Werewolf-wannabes will have been tough but takeable and your assassin might have proved valuable against them. I predict a close win for the GK. I've never faced Thunderwolf Cavalry though (presumably named for the tremulous rumbling of their bowels as they charge like the Light Brigade at Balaclava into a hail of (psy) cannon fire). But on the off-chance that the cowardly beasts and their gunshy over-equipped riders managed to flee in panic through your lines, they might have done some considerable damage.

The Tau, I think, might have done for you again. A lot, I think, will have hinged on the specific mission and deployment rolls. I'll be optimistic and say GK win, but this is the one I'm, most dubious about. I think either you crush him or he crushes you. No close calls here.

Third is easy to predict. The Grey Knights will have won... But I don't actually think he'd have had much chance unless he played really, really well. While his infantry should beat your squads one one one (through numbers or paladin-ness or Draigo's anti-psyker S10 hits), a lot will depend on who gets the charge. If the Vindicare managed to get a shieldbreaker against Draigo, or Crowe did his sacrificing thing (I have lost Draigo to that, which was incredibly annoying as it wasn't even Draigo who'd landed the killing blow, he was just lounging around in base contact...), that wpould have made a big dent in his killing power. And Dreadknights don't like force weapon activation much... and if you kept a couple of your Dreadnoughts up with the troops, his psychic powers wouldn't be too effective. Mindstrikes would be nasty, but assuming he's moving 12" and unloading, it limits the number he'd get off (and if at that point you're still in your vehicles, they're less effective anyway). You had the firepower to blow his 'ravens out of the sky on turn one though if he deployed them. That's what makes me think it's a win for the Purifiers and their trusty warding staves.

You are wise in the ways of the Grey Knights, young one.

I'm tempted to give out some more spoilers....but I guess I'll save them for the battle reports. Let's just say both Bobby and Gus put up a great fight.

primalexile wrote:I could not disagree with Spellbound any more. JY's Battle Reports are incredibly entertaining, I love how close a lot of the games are the fact that neither side is a blowout proves that they are more balanced then overpowered.

Keep up the good work JY!! I look forward to your Ard Boyz reports!!!

Primal Out!

Ironically, some of my better games are against some of the stronger lists and some of the closer games (and losses!) where against armies which I felt should be easier to beat.

But more than just the domination of opponents, I hope that my reports can also offer some tactical insight. For example, why would I rush headlong against 45 assault terminators. Wouldn't the normal strategy for a shooty army to be to shoot them, move back and then shoot them some more? Hmm....

Reecius wrote:@spellbound
Haha, are you seriously mad at someone for being lucky? You must realize how preposterous that sounds? He can't help it anymore than if someone else is unlucky. It sounds like you're really mad at grey knights. Mat Ward is not a competent rules writer. His books, all but space marines, are really bad. Daemons screwed up fantasy, grey knights are throwing the balance of 40k off.

Jim is a very good player and a pleasure to game against. Is he lucky? Sure. Some of our games he's gotten crazy good luck against me. Is that something to get mad about? Hardly.

Direct your anger where it belongs, otherwise it makes you look bad.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I didn't have the luck this tournament like I did in my last tournament (and against you!). You really out-foxed me that game and should've won that game, but some fortunate dice gave me the chance to come back.

BTW, congrats on placing 1st with your Black Templars at your locale. Maybe we'll face each other at the Semi's (hint, hint)....

Gus Indo wrote:he took the picture before I organized my army! lol. Its a very very mismatched Tau. The lovely blue battlesuits are from SabrX.

Yo, Gus. Great game. Honestly, I thought I could get a massacre off of you, but you made me sweat and work for it. Your Tau is a pleasure and a challenge to play against.

Also, though SabrX couldn't make it to the tournament this time, his presence (or should I say, his models) was felt throughout the tournament.

Gus was short a few models, so SabrX loaned him some of his models.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Janthkin wrote:Interesting game. I'm curious if Turn 1 Night Fight would have made a difference in the destruction of that first TWC unit.

Query:

jy2 wrote:Interceptors automatically come in. They shunt to try to finish off his traitor.

Can you do this? Is shunting "instead" of moving? If so, it seems like you'd have to be on the board first.

It probably would, though I did move up 6" to get closer to him.

I don't see why not. The FAQ only disallowed shunting for the Scout moves because the Scout USR explicitly mentioned only normal movement.

Just Dave wrote:Wow. Great report JY; I was worried because of the tournament setting you wouldn't take pictures, but thankfully you did and they were top-quality as always. Great report as ever.
As ever, I was wrong about the result of the battle, but it seemed like a really fun game although he seemed to be struggling with his meltas, as were you with your Psychic Tests!
I love how there so few infantry models left, all the rhinos are up-turned and this was the one game you said wasn't a bloodbath!
Great report man and very well played by both sides.

Yeah, with the amount of practice I've put into this army, I can play it pretty fast. As long as my opponent isn't slow, I should have enough time to take pictures. Each click is maybe 5 seconds at most. In all 3 games, I was able to take pictures and only game 2 against Tau did we not finish (he just had so much shooting).

Yeah, we both had our lumps this game. Besides my turn 1 shooting, the rest of my shooting wasn't so good and neither was his.

Fearspect wrote:People crying luck just don't understand how the game works at 2500 points. What happens is that so much shooting exists on the table that when one gets a good round in, the game becomes effectively over (likewise if you survive a round of shooting with few to no casualties).

The discrepancy makes it near impossible to swing back. For example, the terminators game: sure, you killed more of them, but that's because their shooting was already crippled to begin with. The tide of battle, so to speak, was already going for you and there was little your opponent could do.

That may be the case normally, but for some reason, it wasn't so in my games at Ard Boyz. In all 3 games, crippling damage was done on Turn 1, yet in each game, the player who was crippled came back to make it a very competitive game (now I'm not saying that I'm the one who did all the crippling).

I think some of the best armies can take a crippling alpha strike and still come back. And this is not just by luck. They've got enough redundancy and resiliency built into the design of the army that they can survive alpha strikes and still produce offense at a decent level. Unfortunately, these builds tend to be MSU-builds. That's why MSU is one of the most competitive builds currently.

Artemo wrote:Great report and I am pleased to see my somewhat scathing assessment of the thunderwolves vindicated.

I think you got your target prioritsing pretty much spot on and you demolished what I thought to be a pretty nasty list. Nice one. I'd be very interested to here your opponent's thoughts on this battle if he's available to contribute.

You are almost ready to become a jedi, ole young knight.

I don't know if Scott goes on dakkadakka, but my next 2 opponents should be able to comment on their games.

Stormcrow wrote:haha good call on taking down the Wolf Lord with Crowe! A great batrep as usual.

Crowe has been impressive indeed. Though he died to Tau shooting, he's been adding to his trophy collection and it's getting to be an impressive one:

Swarmlord, Nightbringer, Daemon Prince, Thunderwolf Wolf Lord, Draigo, many others.....

I'm not MAD at him for being lucky. I'm saying it makes the report silly and not enjoyable to read, in similar fashion to how such a game wouldn't be all that enjoyable to play. I've been in games where I do 16 wounds to a single space marine that I need dead to win the game and he shrugs them off. For several turns. When four heavy weapons wreck four vehicles in cover. When basic marines without a powerfist against a dread get four glancing hits with grenades and wreck it by stripping all weapons and immobilizing it. These things make you want to throw your hands up in the air and scream, and when several instances of them happen in a single game, they just build on each other to dice-throwing proportions.

As for the GK, I hardly think it's a "change the metagame" army. It's a "tough sh*t, take it in the face and like it" army. Fortitude? Seriously that is GAME changing and there's really nothing one can DO about it. A very basic game mechanic/strategy/efficient use of weaponry is generally if you stun a tank, you can move on to another tank because it won't be shooting you. Or you can enjoy the troops inside getting out if they want to shoot, thus counting as moving and reducing their effectiveness in shooting as well as making them vulnerable on your next turn. Shooty vehicles become useless for a turn and you can count on that, again only continuing to focus fire if you really need it dead. Otherwise, move on to the next ones to keep them from firing, too. GK? No way, they've got fortitude for FIVE POINTS. 15 for extra armour that makes stunned to shaken, 5 for an ability to just IGNORE BOTH? That is HUGE. Managed to have a good turn with good accuracy, shook all of his dreadnoughts? Well too bad, all your work is undone. Shook all of his rhinos? Sweet, now he has to get out, halving the number of shots of his psycannons and making his small [30] number of purifiers vulnerable to attack!.....oops, nope, they'll stand still and continue to fire as many shots as a devastator squad while remaining a scoring unit and daring you to try and assault them with their 6 power weapon attacks at I6.

Not every army has a psychic hood and if it's in range to use it, it's in range to be hosed by psycannons. Fortitude gives the army so many options tactically and just plain allows the army to stay incredibly deadly all the time. And that's the theme for everything in the army - incredibly deadly, all the time. Each dread is a 5-missile dev squad [due to twin-linked, effectively]. Each big strike/interceptor or small purifier/terminator squad is a 4-autocannon havoc squad - but better because they have rending. But better in cc because most have power weapons. But also CHEAPER and with FORCE weapons and anti-psychic abilities and other psychic powers to mess with deepstrike, destroy horde armies, or just plain make themselves stronger. Why? Why do they cost LESS points?

Then look at the henchmen. S8 Ap1 large blast psychic power in addition to meltaguns? Or hey, don't like space marines? Why not some S4 I6 power weapon attacks to really take the sting out of any assault?

It goes on. Shrouding, 5-point psychic powers, all of their grenades, HQ making vehicles scoring, it's just silly.

The codex is broken. Thunderwolf cavalry are a strong unit that's deadly. Dark Eldar are an army that's swift and effective. Grey Knights? Broken. Over-the-knee broken, plain and simple. They get too much, way too much, and pay way WAY too little for it all. If they paid reasonable prices for this crap it'd be ok, but they don't. The basic Strike marine's 50-ish points of free gear is testament to that.

It's safe to say I can't wait for the next report...

I was quite surprised (but hugely pleased) to see the Werewolf Wannabes crushed so comprehensively (mainly because I find them my toughest opponents).

This, I am bound to say, is your best battle report thread ever.

Excellent work jy2 for scoring a major Victory over the Space Wolves! For a second, I thought Crowe would tie up the Wolf Star for a couple of turns, but he died taking a Wolf Lord with him. Ha ha, rolling 1, 1 for the Vindicare again? The Wolf Scouts underperformed. IMO your opponent should have traded them in for a 3rd squad Long Fangs due to the nature of Scenario #1 and #3. He should have also fielded at least 1 Rune Priest for psychic defense. Aside from that, his list was pretty solid.

Overall, you did great prioritizing targets and neutralizing oncoming threats. It seems this game wasn't affected by insane luck, and reflected more on your amazing generalship.

Thanks for sharing another excellent battle report! I look forward to reading your next matches against Gus and Bobby.

@Spellbound:

Part of the fun in dice rolling is unexpected random events, in which something statistically on average shouldn't happened does happen. Luck enhances the overall gaming experience. Sure it sucks to be on the wrong side of miss fortune for an entire game, but that seldom happens (unless you are me, who has experienced it in 4 consecutive games against jy2). If you don't enjoy that 'random' factor, then consider playing more controlled and predictable games such as Chess or Checkers.

Having said that, I do agree with you and Reecius that Mat Ward f'ed up big time with the codices he wrote for both 40k and Fantasy. The only glaring contradiction is his role with Curddace in nerfing the heck out of white dwarf codex Sisters of Battle.

But let's not get off topic. This thread is focused on jy2's preparations and performance for Ard Boyz. He did a lot of practice games, testing his list against various and different army styles. Whatever the outcome is, he definitely deserved it for all the hard work he put in.

@Gus:

I'm glad you had a good time. I look forward to reading jy2's second btrp.

Luck can be a double edged sword. My friend scored a 26-0 massacre in round 1 of the qualifier, then in round 2 he got eaten alive by dice. His opponent made.....SEVEN (7)......KFF saves against as many Penetrating hits on turn 1 alone, when he should have made 4 on the high end of average. This basically handed a minor defeat to my friend who could not stop the Orks from charging headlong into him and pinning him in his deployment zone on an objective mission. Apparently his luck was like that all game, and my friend had to fight tooth and nail to keep from getting massacred.

Dice are dice. On any given day, they can decide that you look quite delicious, and should perhaps be barbecued by an opponent who should not win. It's part of the game we play.

Can't say I enjoy seeing you win over Space Wolves, but it was well played! Congratz on your win .

Good job handling the wolves. One thing of note. In turn 4 you mention the following:

I kill a bunch of hunters and he kills 2 purifiers, but because he damaged my rhino 3 times, he actually won combat. Luckily, I pass my No Retreat saves.

For future reference only damage results vs walkers in multi-combat count towards combat results. (although unsaved wounds from vehicle explosions do count) refer to page 63 second column, first paragraph, last sentence.

I am eagerly awaiting the rest of the reports.

Spellbound,

While I understand your frustration with the Grey Knight codex, singling out JY2 in his own battle reports for using them effectively isn't the way to make your displeasure known. He's working very hard to make enjoyable battle reports filled with tactical insights not just for the Grey Knights, but for the armies he faces as well, and we should be encouraging him to write more reports instead of berating him for what he's accomplished. Complaining in this particular thread is even worse, because it's a 'Ard Boyz thread where everyone is expected to bring their "A" game.

Keep up the excellent work, JY2. Whether or not a battle is a landslide makes no difference in the quality of your reports. Can't wait for the next one!

Zarry

@spellbound

While I think that the GK codex is diverse and powerful. I do not see it as being OTT. I have yet to loose a game against them with my DE and yesterday I nearly tabled (he had one dread that just would not die) a GK player for game 3 Ard Boyz getting me second place. This is against good experienced players bringing everything from purifier spam and dragiowing to everything in between.

My point is if my hybrid DE army can consistently beat GK then the dex is not OTT. You just need some time to get used to them.

Ard Boyz Game #2 vs Tau


I'm finding Tau to be the perfect foil to my mechanized Grey Knights. Actually, they're the perfect foil to almost all mech-MEQ lists. They've got enough shooting to take out transports. With just 6 rhinos, this is not incredibly hard for them to do. Their infantry shooting is often under-estimated. And lastly, they don't care about how great the knights are in assault. To them, we are just another MEQ rhino-rush army.

What's more, Gus is playing a foot-Tau army. He just doesn't care too much about my AT. All his suits/broadsides have ablative wounds in the form of gun/shield drones so he can take some shooting from my psyfleman dreads. Damn those broadside shield drones and their 2+ saves. I may have to ignore them (except for my vindicare). Also, he's got 2 squads of pathfinders. There goes my plan to take out his pathfinders. 1 I can handle. 2 would require just too much resource to neutralize. So I can't fire at his broadsides and I can't fire at his pathfinders? Then what can I shoot at?

Finally, Gus just doesn't fail his LD tests against me. The only time he failed it, it worked to his advantage, taking his kroots out of my assault range. Then next turn, they regrouped and he shot down my exposed unit. Whereas others fail their morale against me regularly (I've taken out 3 squads of 3 broadsides in 2 games against others by having them fail morale and run off the board from my shooting), Gus' super-kroots and infantry must have LD 11 or something. I just can't get them to run off the board.

Despite all this, I won't be satisfied with anything less than a victory, and I actually thought I could pull off a Massacre. Talk about delusions of grandeur.


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2500 Grey Knights - Purifier-Dreads (My list)

Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 2x Sword, 1x MC-Hammer, 1x Warding Stave

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


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2500 Tau



Shas'O - Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Blacksun Filter, HW-Multi-tracker, Stimulant Injector, 2x Shield Drones
2x Bodyguards - Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, 1x w/Blacksun Filter

3x Crisis Suits - TL-Missile Pods, Blacksun Filter, 2x Gun Drones
3x Crisis Suits - TL-Missile Pods, Blacksun Filter, 2x Gun Drones
3x Crisis Suits - TL-Missile Pods, Blacksun Filter, 2x Gun Drones

12x Firewarriors w/Sergeant
12x Firewarriors w/Sergeant
12x Kroots w/5x Hounds
12x Kroots w/5x Hounds
11x Kroots w/4x Hounds

8x Pathfinders - Devilfish w/Disruption Pods
8x Pathfinders - Devilfish w/Disruption Pods

3x Broadsides - Advanced Stabilisation Systems, Leader w/Blacksun Filter, Target Lock, 2x Shield Drones
3x Broadsides - Advanced Stabilisation Systems, Leader w/Blacksun Filter, Target Lock, 2x Shield Drones
Hammerhead - Railgun, Blacksun Filter, Disruption Pods, Multi-tracker, Target Lock


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Scenario #2 - Whoz Got Da Motz!

Mission: Seize Ground - 5 Objectives

1 objective in the center of the map and 1 objective in the center of each of the 4 table quarters.

Center objective = 4 points

Objectives in deployment quarters = 1 point each

Objectives in empty quarters = 2 points each

Massacre = 5+ points, Major victory = 3-4 points, Minor victory = 1-2 points.

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Grey Knights

Special Rules: No infiltrating, scouting or outflanking! Night-fighting on Turn 6.


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Deployment:
I want to apologize in advance for the lighting in the photos, but there was a skylight above our table. This made the photos bright in some areas and dark in others.

Map of Terrain:


My deployment:



Tau deployment:


My opponent fails to seize the initiative.


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Grey Knights 1

Grey knights advance 12". Crowe steals a rhino. Left-most rhino immobilizes itself despite the re-roll from the dozers. The 3 right rhinos pop smoke.


My shooting wrecks his hammerhead. I also reduce 1 unit of deathrains to just 2 suits (of which 1 took a wound). He passes morale.

Vindicare fails to kill a broadside (he misses with a 1,2).

Now some may wonder why I didn't go after his broadsides or pathfinders. He had just too many pathfinders and to kill his broadsides, I would have to waste the firepower to kill his 2 2+ shield drones first. It's just not very efficient to try to take them down. I opted to go for the easier kills.


Tau 1

Tau movement.


Deathrains wreck 1 rhino. He then shoots down 2 purifiers.


He then disables 2 more rhinos (1 wreck and 1 explosion). Luckily for me, no one is killed in the explosion.

Wow....4 rhinos down in 1 turn. This brings back memories....bad memories....


Grey Knights 2

Purifiers move down 1 level. I'm already planning on how I'm going to get to my objectives.


Crowe disembarks from his rhino and heads towards the kroots. Purifiers shuffle around.


Interceptors shunt to his left flank. I try to use the hill to block LOS from the rest of his army (or most of it anyways). Purifiers disembark from the immobilised rhino and advance.


They both fire at the kroots and take down about half the squad. Kroots would then pass morale (this would be a recurring theme in this game...again).


My 2 left dreads fire at his devilfish. I want to take away his ability to get to the objectives. I explode one and only shake the other. The explosion kills 2 firewarriors. I then concentrate the majority of my firepower into his HQ unit. I kill both shield drones and both bodyguards, but his commander still lives. He passes morale.

Vindicare aims for his broadsides again, but this time, I fail to wound with my turbo-penetrator 2W shot.


In other shooting, I put another 1W on his depleted deathrain unit. Crowe then assaults into his kroots.


I opt not to use Cleansing Flamer and instead, I parry. Unfortunately, after the re-rolls I still take 1W.


Tau 2

Kroots go after my interceptors.


The rest of his army's movement. Gun drones disembark from the shaken devilfish.


Markerlights and suits take out 4 purifiers (the ones that just disembarked from my immobilised rhino last turn).


I believe his firewarriors finish off the sole survivor.


He also explodes 1 rhino and shakes the other. The focus-fire reduces the unit to just 1 guy....


...who then eats a target lock broadside railgun to the face (I think).


Finally, his broadsides wreck a normal dread.


In assault, his suits take a step and a hop back. Crowe parries...and then fails to cast Cleansing Flame!


Finally, his kroots charge. I forget to cast Hammerhand.


I fail miserably in assault and fail to kill a single kroot. He kills my psycannon knight, and we remain locked in combat.


Wow...another rough turn for my purifiers. I lose 2 full squads of purifiers, 1 dread and 1 rhino. I then fail miserably in assault with Crowe and my interceptors. I've only got 1 working rhino right now and a bunch of knights on foot who can't get cover saves from his shooting. Not looking too good.

Worse yet, it's only been 2 turns.


To be continued.....


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Grey Knights 3

Overview of the beginning of Turn 3.


GK movement. Purifiers climb down the ruins and start to make a move for the 2pt objective. Rhino fortitudes off the shaken and tankshocks 12" I hit his kroots, suits and firewarriors but they all pass their morale tests. Dammit. Even if I lose this game, it'll be a moral victory if I can make at least 1 unit fail morale and flee (and not from assault).


Shooting kills 2 deathrain suits from 1 unit and 1 from another. I also kill some kroot. They ALL proceed to pass morale.


Crowe then gets fed up and casts Cleansing Flame, killing 9 kroots. He then sweeps them. I know, I know....I should have waited until next turn to cast CF, but I just lost patience then and we were running low on time.

But the truth was, I wanted him to waste his firepower on Crowe. Take him out, I don't care. As long as it buys some time for my purifiers from getting shot down. Yes, he may win the battle....but I plan on winning the game.


Actually, wait....one of his suits did fail morale and huff it off the board on his turn (the lone, unpainted crisis model). Yeah! Now I can lose the game in peace....NOT! It ain't over til the plump lady sings....


Another round of fail for my interceptors. Despite Hammerhand going off, they only kill 1 kroot.... yes, they pass morale as well.


Tau 3

Tau movement. Firewarriors get on their devilfish and make a play for the 2pt objective.


Fire warriors double-tap Crowe. Crowe only has 1 wound left. I go on to pass 12 saves! Oh wait, what? 13 wounds? No prob. I take my last save (the big red die) and roll a 1. Doh!


Crowe is no more. Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually glad he killed Crowe? Let's just say, he took one for the Greater Good.


BS5 broadsides blow up a regular dread sans cover.


Finally, he kills off 4 of 5 purifiers with his deathrain + HQ unit.


He is unable to shoot down my last mobile rhino so is forced to assault it. I hope it blows up and takes a lot of Tau with it. Well, it doesn't.


Then his 4 ironclads assault my lone knight....oh wait, wrong game.


Finally, his 2 gun drones charge in to help out his kroots. Finally I am able to break his kroots....but his darn drones pass morale on a 4 and hold up my interceptors for another turn! WTF!


Grey Knights 4
Ok, we decided that this would be the last game turn. There just wasn't enough time to fit in another 2 player turns after this.


I make a play for the 2pt objective as well. Vendread moves to within 12" of his devilfish's disruption pods. Stupid knights. They only run 1" and won't be able to reach the objective. My mobile rhino, instead of tankshocking some more (I really wanted to do it), does the more sensible thing and moves back to protect my dread and hopefully to block LOS to infantry.


Rear purifiers, however, make it to the other 2pt objective.


I shoot down both of his gun drones on his Shas'O's unit. Naturally, they pass morale.


Vendread blows up his devilfish. 4 dies in the explosion. Then Gus couldn't have picked a worse time to fail morale, pinning his fire warriors so close to the 2pt objective. Yes, I have been vindicated at last.

Finally, my interceptors finish off his 2 gun drones in assault.


Tau 4

Overview of the bottom of 4.

Right now, I've got the middle objective and my 2pt objective. Gus only has his 1pt objective so if he cannot contest the middle objective or blow away my 5 purifiers on the 2pt objective, it will be a Massacre for me (if he can do both, then it would be a victory for him).

Would you believe I planned this all along?


Tau movement. Suits advance.


He wrecks my rhino and then shoots down all but 1 purifier by the center objective. His marketlights hit my vendread and then broadsides blow it up. In his assault phase, his XV88's then jump and make it into contesting range (though 1 suit does takes 1W from dangerous terrain).

However, that sapped up all his firepower and he couldn't fire at my other unit.


He's only got his 1pt objective. I've got the 2pt objective and the center objective is contested. I also get +1 bonus point because he has no units in my deployment zone for a total of 14 points.




Minor Victory to the Grey Knights!!!

Heh, I guess your "awesome luck" hasn't quite kicked in yet

He has no Piranhas? He seems to have gone all-out on Firepower with this list.

I suppose a few piranhas could have done me good, but as with last game against jy2, they would have died immediately. He knows what to kill with his dreads.

Well, just reserve them?

16 Pathfinders, whoa. Why so many? To make sure you finish off Deathstar units?

Sacred Feth! I just picked up this thread a day ago and JY2, i am seriously impressed with your skills. I may have little actual combat experience in 40k, mainly because i just started my first real army, but after reading this thread and some of your other batreps, i seriously have not been able to find a more entertaining and informative series of batreps on this, and several other sites. way to go with the first match and I'm right there with all the other guys on waiting for the continuation.

jy2 Not to whine but I think you cannot shunt on to the board because I believe you have to be on the board to hence move on with regular then you can activate wargear.