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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yes I have, I have been on both sides of that. The guy who did it to me a couple of times has shown me what I did wrong and so forth. And I do feel he learned something, like maybe when you have two inches for assault dont shoot or you will kill your sure chance of getting in combat

That's actually a pretty bad lesson. How exactly were the models lined up where the models removed from shooting actually ruined a garunteed charge? I think that's pretty far from a good lesson learned. It really depends on what he was shooting with, and what he was charging, along with what he rolled for the charge. Firing into a unit to soften them up and needing 3-4" on 2d6 is a pretty safe bet. If you think it helped teaching him to fear the odds, then you didn't do justice as a teacher.

Again, the issue is the guy quite on turn 3. Halfway through the game and he realized that nothing he could do would make a difference. That really implies that he had too much go wrong to really consider anything a learning opportunity. The only thing I've ever learned from games like that is that I was playing at a point level way beyond my means and went against something I had no tools to deal with. Basically my list was bad and I needed to start from the very beginning and nothing in that game would have really carried over.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And how does a Frenchmen play war games anyway? Do you just write "I surrender" on your list and give to your opponent or o you wait until models are deployed to do that?

Okay. You're the baby seal now.

Did you like it ? Was it enjoyable ?
Of course not. It sucks.

Now you know how the I'm the big dog here, play like you've got a pair thing really feels like to a casual gamer.

 Haight wrote:
Wait, wut ?

Actually, the mods politely asked me to stop kicking puppies.

Geez dude, Its like you never seen a "French are Cowards" Joke before. That was in jest

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Geez dude, Its like you never seen a "French are Cowards" Joke before. That was in jest

Little hint, people who are from the country in question generally don't derive huge amusement from racial stereotype humour.

You dumb, fat yank.

I iz not dum nor phat.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Litcheur wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Contempt means I hate them, I do not hate them. What I do not like is being villianized for playing a list I like.

Look, you've got 6k posts. This is my fourth one. You're known here. There are witnesses.

Do you really want a french guy to teach you english ?

Of course you want. Stay still, baby seal !
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/educated?q=educated

Four posts in and you're proving you're a condescending prick? Yep, good job

Welcome to the ignore list, by the way.

And yet... he was correcting somebody else's incorrect correction.... If his correction was 'condescending' then the first correction would have to be both condescending and wrong.

So, he is still right. That is what contempt means, and why I used the term.

Anger is not needed for contempt, merely disdain.

And that is exactly what the OP was expressing about his opponent.

I think that I can find a use for that term now, too... though not with either the OP nor the person that you seem so negatively impressed by..

The OP has changed his description of the game and player over the course of this thread - soon the opponent will not be a 'baby seal' but instead a 'fully trained battle walrus! With... photon flippers... or something...'.

The Auld Grump, though the old White Wolf Magazine game Seal of Satan was pretty fun....

Honestly, the first post read like, "I know I was a jerk doing this, so I'm going to go to the internet to seek validation and justify myself so I don't feel guilty about it."

"He looked distressed"

"he looked like he was not having fun."

Chances are, he wasn't and he probably had every right to.

There are plenty of options you could have done, suggesting playing a smaller point game comes to mind, then dropping your marine segment. Perhaps suggesting a more narrative scenario, and have your marines being rescued by the Tau, or some other idea.

I've seen lots of new players go through similar situations against other players with 'optimised' builds. Most of the time, it's just an exercising in ego stroking for the 'optimised' player and the other guy goes off to play another game, assuming he comes back to the club at all.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
'fully trained battle walrus! With... photon flippers... or something...'

Why is this not a thing? How much money do I need to hurl to make this a thing?

Okay, in a more serious contribution, the first thing that you have to be aware of is that 40k is *not* a balanced game, and the rules are not good. Fun, yes. Good, feth no.

Taking an internet list to a non-tourney game is kinda like using your fully-geared up character to smash some level 1 noob in an online game.

Which is fine if you both know what to expect from the game, not so fine if you didn't.

Dude, even from the very first post, you didn't sound that far out of line. It sounds like you came in without knowing how poor a player he was. When you realized his skill level was way below yours, it sounds like you tried to give him some underhand lobs. Seems like he wasn't up to that level of skill either, and you feel bad about thrashing him. There's only so much responsibility you can take for someone else's lack of competency with the game. Try to give him a good game obviously, try to show him how to play better, but if he still loses, then don't feel bad.

 Compel wrote:
Honestly, the first post read like, "I know I was a jerk doing this, so I'm going to go to the internet to seek validation and justify myself so I don't feel guilty about it."

"He looked distressed"

"he looked like he was not having fun."

Chances are, he wasn't and he probably had every right to.

There are plenty of options you could have done, suggesting playing a smaller point game comes to mind, then dropping your marine segment. Perhaps suggesting a more narrative scenario, and have your marines being rescued by the Tau, or some other idea.

I've seen lots of new players go through similar situations against other players with 'optimised' builds. Most of the time, it's just an exercising in ego stroking for the 'optimised' player and the other guy goes off to play another game, assuming he comes back to the club at all.

Pretty much agree with this.

The whole situation just sounds horrendous..

 Pacific wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Honestly, the first post read like, "I know I was a jerk doing this, so I'm going to go to the internet to seek validation and justify myself so I don't feel guilty about it."

"He looked distressed"

"he looked like he was not having fun."

Chances are, he wasn't and he probably had every right to.

There are plenty of options you could have done, suggesting playing a smaller point game comes to mind, then dropping your marine segment. Perhaps suggesting a more narrative scenario, and have your marines being rescued by the Tau, or some other idea.

I've seen lots of new players go through similar situations against other players with 'optimised' builds. Most of the time, it's just an exercising in ego stroking for the 'optimised' player and the other guy goes off to play another game, assuming he comes back to the club at all.

Pretty much agree with this.

The whole situation just sounds horrendous..

Seconded. If I were the OP's opponent, I'd probably come to the conclusion that the OP was being a bit of a TFG (in fact, the posts you've made in this thread do lead me to the conclusion that you have latent TFG signs - get rid of them before you loose opponents).

My advice - tailor your game and your forces to your opponent and vice versa. Always make sure you've got a few list variants and the forces to go. Educate and engage with your opponent with dialogue. Try to gage their level of play and their expectations. Discuss the kind of game you both want at the start. Common courtesy demands that much at least.

Opponent looking for a real challenge or gearing up for a tournament? Go all out
Opponent is very much a casual player looking for a friendly game? Avoid those TFG instincts and instead of trying to crush them, try new units, tactics, education, explanation of your choices and talk about their choices.

I have to agree with the guys who posted above. The account of this game and the opponent has changed rather substantially since the original post.

The post should have been titled "Is it wrong to decimate and opponent with a power list when they are playing a friendly list'.

That being the case, of course this is not wrong but will likely result in the player declining to play you again in future. I have yet to meet anyone who enjoys being tabled be the 3rd turn.

It would seem now, that the opponent just wanted to finish up so he could go play somebody else and enjoy a good game.

Meh. Smash him, its the only way he'll learn not to suck.

Or is fancier terms it will force him to either ascend and challenge himself or regress into lameness that is Goobhammer.

Hotsauce, by your own admission he appeared to not be having a good time. You're likely right. You shouldn't be bringing a tournament ready list to a new player game unless that's what has been agreed upon. Not everybody enjoys learning a game by getting their teeth kicked in.

I tried to tell him and showed him my list. He seemed fine with it. I told him 3 times im planning on using this for tournaments. He never once said no.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I tried to tell him and showed him my list. He seemed fine with it. I told him 3 times im planning on using this for tournaments. He never once said no.

How is a new player/baby seal supposed to judge a list? Is it a different codex? He probably had no clue at all what kind of nastiness was contained in your list and just conceded so he didn't look foolish.

I think we're starting to go to the crux of the issue right now.

OP, I think what happened is that when you showed him the list he probably lacked the ability to gauge exactly what that meant. A normal reasonable person would not expect a game like Warhammer to have such a huge game breaking balance problem. A reasonable person would have interpreted that statement as a list that you were simply going to be playing at a tournament that you wanted to try out. Not as the game breaking, overpowering, overwhelming, exploitative list that it actually is.

I guess that was true. He was a little surprised at twin linked Pathfinders and Lascannnons with tank hunter and Ignore cover and rerolls to hit

Tournament game, it's fair game, but be sure to help your opponent if you know you are gonna win. Assist him with rules and such.

Casual play, well why are you playing a tournament list in casual play? Aside from that, find out if the player is new. Adjust from there.

My biggest problem is experienced players wanted to "get practice" with their netlist, and playing it against new players. 2 repeat offenders at my FLGS. It was driving away players, so I had to put a stop to it.

 juraigamer wrote:
My biggest problem is experienced players wanted to "get practice" with their netlist, and playing it against new players. 2 repeat offenders at my FLGS. It was driving away players, so I had to put a stop to it.

You and your double-barreled sawnoff.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That was a good joke.
And how does a Frenchmen play war games anyway? Do you just write "I surrender" on your list and give to your opponent or o you wait until models are deployed to do that?

You may want to check how much the French helped you to win the American Revolution.

Without them, you'd all still be speaking English.

I am a new 40K player and I see it both ways.

Its not a lot of fun to get wiped off the board without a word on what I am doing wrong. (has happened, I just hope the other person had fun)

But I also want to learn, so the going easy on me isn't doing anyone any favors.

Personally all I want is some respect as a fellow hobbyist, so go full out but give me some ideas of what I am doing wrong.

If clubbing baby seals is your thing, I am cool with that. But give the baby seal some info to get better in the future.

My old Warhammer group had the mentality of this. There are a couple people who requested getting beaten on to get better. The majority of players left, or refused to play the people doing it. I played the occasional game with the guys, but usually fobbed off excuses to avoid Warhammer games. It's a mentality that fits for very few people. Most people, while remaining friendly about it, really hate the playstyle of getting pounded on. I've been one of the "baby seals" when WHFB 8 came out. Really didn't enjoy it too much, but got a couple fun games in.

Big P wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That was a good joke.
And how does a Frenchmen play war games anyway? Do you just write "I surrender" on your list and give to your opponent or o you wait until models are deployed to do that?

You may want to check how much the French helped you to win the American Revolution.

Without them, you'd all still be speaking English.

Off topic I know but I always point out to my English friends that I am their worst enemy. I know enough military history to know we should love the French and hate the English. Although we probably should still own Nova Scotia if it wasn't for your peace treaty terms.

Have we even seen the list in order to judge just how nasty it was?

I've been clubbed before and it great to be snapped back into reality. In 4th edition I played a lot of fluff driven lists with my friends and then skipped over most of 5th. During that break I lurked the forums and kept fairly current with 40k. I jumped back in when 6th dropped and brought some pretty decent lists -> I got smacked around though because the list doesn't tell you how to deploy or prioritize targets.

I got clubbed my first game of 6th and then won the next 2. If my first opponent went easy on me and made it a close game then I probably would have deployed exactly the same in my next games (thinking that maybe it was the dice that had caused me to lose).

I bet some of my opponents have gone home after losing and written better lists/thought through their strategy a bit more before playing.

We need to stop handing out gold stars to people who aren't deserving. Anyone who is serious about getting into wargaming will take all their losses and look at it in a positive light.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Have we even seen the list in order to judge just how nasty it was?

Tau tech commander(Ignores covers, reroll to hits Tank hunter)

2x squads of Firewarriors

Riptide

7 pathfinders

2broadisdes

Sky ray

tigarious with divination

2 Tact squads(One with a melta gun one with a plasma) in drop pods

Lascannon Devs, hanging with the Tau commander.

My friend helped me build it to play to taking objectives and holding others.

His

1 Lord with Mon
Kharn

3 units of cultist
1 unit of CSM

Chosen all with MON in a Land raider

Warp talons

Helbrute
Oh and terminators with mark or tzeentch

His list just looks so confused. I mean lots of cultist but nothing really to bubble wrap and no decent firepower to put out.
Nurgle Chosen in a Landraider just seems expensive since he went with a nurgle lord and didn't bring plague marines.
Helbrute's aren't bad but there isn't enough threats to keep this alive. I'm willing to bet it was taken out pretty quicly or reduced to uselessness.

Your list is way more goal oriented than the Chaos list and it doesn't even look like it could hold it's own in a standard casual game really. It looks extremely one sided just on paper alone.

Prettu much all of the above.