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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
If Sigismund still lived, he could perhaps match Abaddon. Both were First Captains of their respective Legions.

And Abbadon might be the potential 'son' of Horus himself.

That logic doesn't really stand honestly, because that just assumes they are equally skilled because they are first captains.

I did not state that they were equal.

I suggested that they might have been.

There is a difference.

I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

 kerikhaos wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

Yes, that is true. Well, at least if you don't count it as Abaddon winning the first time Thawn dies... Or if Thawn runs out of turns which is likely.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/medium/tyberosp1.jpg

Favorite Character has got to be Tyboros the Red Wake... All be it that any good close combat character with an AP2 weapon will own him you can't help but admire a model with two lighting claws and two chainfists.

Personal favorite unit has got to be like others. Sternguard. The guys just do everything. Costly, but they have a gun that is anti-everything almost. Also taking combis can make them eve more threatening. Plasma, melta, flamer. All of them are good picks. You don't want them in CC, but they don't go down without a fight with each one having 2 attacks each.

Transport: Drop Pod. Honestly I think it is partially because it has glorious synergy with Sternguard. This thing is an alpha striker's dream. All or nothing, a massive bravado. Smashing down from the sky like rain droplets of steel, they unload their contents and let them tear apart the foe where they least expect it (and its fun as hell to watch enemies clump together in fear of your drop pods)

Character: I really like Vulkan for his rules and him being my favorite chapter but I'll have to say Pedro Kantor just edges him out. He's just all around fun and he along with BT are the reason why Imperial Fists are my third favorite loyalist chapter. If he existed, I'd say Tu'Schan.

Honestly your best answer is probably just to leave him alone for the most part. Abaddon is not cheap. The guy costs more than a land raider. The only ranged weapon he has is a twin-linked bolter gun. He can deepstrike admittedly. Anyways, the guy is almost a pure beatstick. The only synergy he has with the army is a 12" radius circle around him that gives preferred enemy SM (which admittedly can be rather helpful against somebody like you as SM means SM, BA, DA, GK, SW). Bar that, he wants to be in close combat. He is tanky with T5, he has a super killy sword and a painful talon. He can shred apart most enemies with either. With the current state of the game, the only real enemies in 40k (discounting any Forgeworld units I can't remember, Apoc, and 30k) that will consistently give him a run for his money or best him are probably ol' Swarmy and Skarbrand. And I'm not even sure about Swarmy at the moment.

That doesn't really matter that much. He's slow with his only options being rhinos, land raiders, deepstrike, and footslogging. He's just 6 inch movement and then possible running and out of close combat he is rarely doing anything useful. Don't look for a solution to him, look through a way to tear through the rest of the army

Oh, and Abaddon is a beast. Favored of Horus, he earned his rank. He's worked his terminator armor off uniting the forces and preparing for a crusade each time achieving victories for a final success. He has shunned princedom determined to not become it... yet. The sword fluffwise is far more terrifying than you might believe. He's blessed by all four gods and is arguably the most significant chaos lord since Horus. Now, he is not equal to a primarch. Any single primarch would still best him unless their connection to the real realm (daemon primarchs) was so unstable they were already dissapearing and even then it would like prove to be difficult. A daemon prince though? Honestly I could see him doing it.

I like the look of Vulkan Hestan but dont own him. Whats the consensus is he any good? Master crafted melta must be nice for the army? Salamanders with him seem like an army with potential in the hands of a skilled player(rules me out).

As for Vehicles, I like the Whirlwind a lot. Dunno why but I like the unit first time I saw it. Have had some good success with it too.

Vulkan he'stan

Can't find a lot on him as a warrior but seems a hard ass former salamander captain of the 4th company. Now the forgefather on some star trek quest to find artifacts of vulkan. Would actually stand a chance against abaddon?

You are right about abaddon he's a tank and can't be compared to any one space marine character. But since he's been turning down daemon hood as he's not ready for it yet ( good move I say since he would lose himself completely to chaos) but should become a daemon prince then forget it he would become most likely as powerful as a primarch?

But as before the only way to deal with him currently is to drain him from his army and long range bolt him down by number x-high guns and drop him with a lead infection

Keep sending your fav characters and don't forget to tell everyone why, another vote for sternguard it seems

Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer.

Coolest thing in the Astartes armory, hands-down. Dark Age of Technology-era lost archaeotech that converts solid matter directly to energy in a blinding flash of light, capable of hitting almost anything within line-of-sight on a standard sized board, capable of blowing up Land Raiders in a single shot...

Nothing short of amazing. It's extremely rare for me to NOT field a MOTF as my Warlord.

Oh, if I were to pick a named Character, I'd go for Asterion Moloc.



Yeah. Badass doesn't even come close.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Vulkan he'stan

Can't find a lot on him as a warrior but seems a hard ass former salamander captain of the 4th company. Now the forgefather on some star trek quest to find artifacts of vulkan. Would actually stand a chance against abaddon?

You are right about abaddon he's a tank and can't be compared to any one space marine character. But since he's been turning down daemon hood as he's not ready for it yet ( good move I say since he would lose himself completely to chaos) but should become a daemon prince then forget it he would become most likely as powerful as a primarch?

But as before the only way to deal with him currently is to drain him from his army and long range bolt him down by number x-high guns and drop him with a lead infection

Keep sending your fav characters and don't forget to tell everyone why, another vote for sternguard it seems

Yeah I love Vulkan personally. A necron really liked his weapon and wanted to steal it for his collection. Vulkan was not pleased .

As you mentioned, Vulkan would put up a challenge fluffwise, and wouldn't die cause important character syndrome, but he would lose in the end. not really per say. Daemon Princes are an odd wibbly wobbly state. Their connection, although I think some fluff says it is better than other daemonic forces, is still, in the end tenuous. The mightiest of daemons are always at danger of flickering at out. Whilst they are heavily resilient, that's a lot of warp energy in the rea world that REALLY shouldn't be there. Anyways, if Abaddon became a daemon prince, he still wouldn't be on their levels probably. He'd be high up there and could possibly even best some non daemonic primarchs but that would require all four gods just pumping him up constantly and I can't help but feel that they wouldn't want the individual to be as powerful as their own personal champions (Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim, Magnus). Still, the fluff is silly and draigo has bested Mortarion before. That being said, Draigo is infamous for being called OTT even for an OTT environment. Ignoring that, daemon princes (which if you think about it should usually be better than a Chapter Master) have been bested many times by captains and chapter masters, modified humans have been able to banish some of the mightiest daemons with a super specialized sword, and Gulliman handed Swarmy a new one even though fluffwise Swarmy would still probably win (I really don't entirely know with the new special rules). Anyways, Abaddon is a fun character. He's not competitive, he really doesn't bring that much synergy to your army, but he is one of the most entertaining characters in the game just for ripping apart foes in CC like a beast (and its kinda entertaining when you start rolling +1 S on him and the sorts)

Favorite character: Dante. It's a shame his table stats are hardly worth the points, and despite being super old and famous, he lacks the ever-important eternal warrior to keep a character relevant in the big guns category. Also yay for initiative 6 on an unwieldy weapon. -_-

Favorite unit: will always have a soft spot for genestealers. Used to run several squads in 3rd when rending was "roll 6 to hit = wound"

Favorite vehicle: Furioso Librarian dreadnoughts.

So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

 kerikhaos wrote:




Ok I give up. It seems abaddon with all 4 god blessings can't be beaten one on one with anyone character from the imperium. Unfortunately anyone who can get a chance wouldn't be human and the only chance that the humans would have would be bolt him him to death with like a load of distance shooters non stop or blasts from a something like a land raider. Seems chaos has a character with more or less the same strengths of what a pre herecy prim arch would have.

So there you have it one to one forget it with abaddon it's not going to happen

In the fluff Draigo could carve the sentence 'Draigo wuz here' up Abbadon's spinal column with only his pinky.

In the game abaddon can be easily beaten by a regular Space Marine Chapter Master with the Shield Eternal, Armor Indomitus, Burning Blade and Bike.

Let's be honest. Draigo can beat all the gods of chaos, pimp slap the Emperor in his prime, and waltz on through everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kerikhaos wrote:
So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

Draigo? Or are we still talking Vulkan? If we are talking Vulkan (which it seems like you are), the emperor has nothing to do with it. Vulkan is a mantle, a name taken upon by the forge master. Salamander's know not of what happened to their primarch, many claim he still lives. They believed that if they find all the artefacts, they will be able to find their primarch. That is why he is out on his quest. If you meant Draigo. Draigo was silly op running around killing all daemons like nothing, got sucked into the warp, defied all fluff and run amuck, and randomly gets spit out to destroy and then get sucked back into the warp. Don't ask why he pops up against everything, if we want to question that, question why GK are more likely going to be fighting Imperial or xenos forces

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

Yup! Assuming he still has a turn left he can still keep on coming back. He reminds me of that knight who refuses to accept any wounds fromt he movie Monty Python's The Holy Grail...... Tis but a scratch!
Yes, that is true. Well, at least if you don't count it as Abaddon winning the first time Thawn dies... Or if Thawn runs out of turns which is likely.

Read the GK codex. my vote is now between draigo and tharn.
Vehicle: dreadknight, looks much better if you don't use the oversized crotch plate.
Unit: still terminators.

I love my Honour guard. just five of these guys on the charge (with the chapter banner) gets 6 attacks each, ap3 with power swords. Heretics will die!

I use vanguard veterans with normal back packs instead of the jump packs as my honour guard models because they look totally boss and the more dynamic poses fits a close combat unit way more than the rather dull, standing still poses 90% of all space marines have.

I love the LS Storm. I just love the idea and the look.

I wish it had better rules though. ><

the LS storm has some pretty cool stuff.

I'm considering bringing one to protect my Centurions a bit from deep striking units (drop pod sternguards, I'm looking at you!)
or keeping it in reserve with 5 bolter scouts for a mid-late objective grab unit.

it's blinding blast weapon is a good support weapon for melee units as well so it has some synergy with a few units too. If it lives long enough... xD

 StarTrotter wrote:
Let's be honest. Draigo can beat all the gods of chaos, pimp slap the Emperor in his prime, and waltz on through everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kerikhaos wrote:
So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

Draigo? Or are we still talking Vulkan? If we are talking Vulkan (which it seems like you are), the emperor has nothing to do with it. Vulkan is a mantle, a name taken upon by the forge master. Salamander's know not of what happened to their primarch, many claim he still lives. They believed that if they find all the artefacts, they will be able to find their primarch. That is why he is out on his quest. If you meant Draigo. Draigo was silly op running around killing all daemons like nothing, got sucked into the warp, defied all fluff and run amuck, and randomly gets spit out to destroy and then get sucked back into the warp. Don't ask why he pops up against everything, if we want to question that, question why GK are more likely going to be fighting Imperial or xenos forces

so are salamanders involved with the battle as like all other chapters or are they out there doing their own thing most of the time like looking for these artifacts? Surely the emperor knows the whereabouts or the outcome of their primarch why not just tell them and be done with the wild goose chases?

ok everyone its an old post but I found some neat info on the web that apparently a load of folks have played against abaddon and actually beat him one to one in close combat.

I didn't check every single vs match but since im a blood angels fella the few games which I saw recorded stuck in my head.

This match came form this post and details that abaddon had lost to none other but the Sanguinor. Can you believe it and I've just checked that The Sanguinor is actually more expensive point wise than Mephiston.

http://40kproject.blogspot.com/2011/02/abbadon-vs-sanguinor-calgar-vs.html

im pretty sure the odds were in The Sanguinors favour but still its proof I guess that abaddon can fall from one on one combat

what do you guys think

The thing is with that data is that it's from 5th edition, where all power weapons ignored all armour saves. In those days there were plenty capable of hurting him, but now that Sangy is AP3 he's not really capable of doing it.

Abbadon is one of the characters that really gained from the 6th Ed changes, with an AP2-at-initiative weapon and a 2+ save. Sangy has the 2+ save, but no AP2 weapon, meaning he's not getting through Abbadon's saves.

 Paradigm wrote:
The thing is with that data is that it's from 5th edition, where all power weapons ignored all armour saves. In those days there were plenty capable of hurting him, but now that Sangy is AP3 he's not really capable of doing it.

Abbadon is one of the characters that really gained from the 6th Ed changes, with an AP2-at-initiative weapon and a 2+ save. Sangy has the 2+ save, but no AP2 weapon, meaning he's not getting through Abbadon's saves.

your probably right........ok I give up with killing myself to find the worthy opponent for this guy. Seems games workshop must of thought to piss everyone off from dropping everyone elses stats lower and boosting abaddons.

How far away is the new blood angels / space marines codex to be released? Hopefully we can see something change for our benefits this time round

I don't know about the BA codex (later this year, at a guess), but the SM codex released last year might have something. If you can knock a wound or two off beforehand, then a Chapter Master on bike with the Shield Eternal, Artificer armour and a Thunder Hammer could probably hold his own, and the bike would make sure he gets the charge. Iron Hands CT also gives him a 6+ FNP and a 5+ IWND (regenerate wounds). Take him with a squad of scoring bikes as a plug-in to your BA if you really want to take on Abbadon 1 on 1.

what I don't understand is why has sanguinors cost still remained at 275 when I cant justify his powers to come even close with abaddons. I mean even mephiston who is cheaper by 25 is a better character than sanguinor. It doesn't make any sense

It's the same problem with the rest of the BA codex: age. In the new codex, expect him (and everything else) to either get a lot cheaper or get a huge boost (hell, an AP2 weapon and IC status would do it), maybe a bit of both. BA are in a bad place at the moment due to a number of factors, one of which is having the only marines that cost 10-20% more than their rough equivalents.

my guess is don't all other codices for example have characters which reach up the 250 - 275 point costs? And how do these compare power wise with others? Like you said is it because the codex of that time has remained un touched while everything else has been brought forward with new power and abilities? Its a pretty dodgy thing since when someone gets a new codex it could break the competitors game.

There's a lot of disparity between characters of similar costs, due to a combination of factors such as age of codex and the role of the character. Comparing some of those with 200+ costs (And a few others):

Wrecking Balls:
- Abbadon, fairly costed and nigh-unbeatable in CC. However, lacks mobility and provides no real leadership bonus. Require a tough bodyguard squad to be effective.
- Lysander, great at CC but only at CC. Fairly priced, and like Abbadon, has no real mobility without a Land Raider. Require a tough bodyguard squad to be effective.
- Mephiston: has great stats, but lacks AP2 and an invuln, meaning he requires more finesse than some options. Probably a bit expensive.


Leaders:
- Calgar: while he's no slouch in CC, Calgar is far more a leader, allowing double use of a particular Doctrine and also giving complete control over morale for the whole army. Very useful, and fairly costed.
- Imhotek: Again, no pushover in combat, but his real ability to control night fighting (and use lightning) and a re-roll on seizing. Fairly costed, bordering on too good.
- Possibly Tycho: not as much of a CC monster as other BA characters, but provides some solid buffs, I think. Fairly costed given the age of the codex.

All-rounders:
- Ragnar Blackmane: Lacks AP2 but has a neat weapon and stats, as well as a good-ish invuln. Throws out a good buff to his squad and can give a FC bubble once per game. No 2+ save though so he's no duelist. Maybe a bit expensive.
- The Sanguinor: Mobile and can slaughter non-characters with ease, it's only in 1v1 duels he suffers, and only through lack of AP2. Makes 1 sarge a mini-character, which can be handy. Has a Chapter Banner-like effect. Probably overcosted, due to older codex, but in a vacuum he's OK.
- Sicarius: A good mix of CC and leadership abilities, he's fairly costed, but outclassed by Calgar for leadership, Tigurius for tricks and Lysander for CC.

Game-changers:
- Logan Grimngar: Has good CC prowess and opens up Wolf Guard troops. He's fine, but SW termies are not the most effective, so his use is limited. Maybe a bit expensive.
- Astorath: triples chances of Red Thirst and lifts the Death Co limit, so can lend himself to a CC-orientated BA army. However, a 4++ and no EW means he himself is less useful, as many characters/units can kill him before you swing at I1. He does hit hard, eventually. Was fairly costed in 5th, but the changes to power axes and FC made him less useful.

So really, most of the BA characters were fairly costed in 5th, when Sang and Meph had AP1 weapons and Astorath and Dante swung at initiative. It's only in 6th that they've suffered, and I expect the new codex to fix this as it has with most other 'made for 5th' characters. It's just a case of waiting.