A positive outlook on GW

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**Random Dude**

Azreal13 wrote:
Random Dude wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

Hmmm, ok, you've got me intrigued.

So, in essence, you're postulating that, rather than having genuine criticism or concerns with the state of the game or the actions of the maker of that game, people are instead just coming here to complain?

One could refer to them, perhaps, as "a bunch of complainers?" 'Whiners' if you will?

This theory could utterly revolutionise Dakka, we could just simply hand wave away all those complaints! Just dismiss them out of hand!

I would like to know more.

I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

**Blacksails**

Random Dude wrote:

I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

**Mysterious Pants**

Random Dude wrote:
I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

He's being sarcastic.

**Random Dude**

I think at this point, It's best if I just leave the debate entirely.

**Azreal13**

Blacksails wrote:
Random Dude wrote:

I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

Sorry, let me know if it's permanently damaged and I'll get you a new one.

Perhaps one of those digital ones, if they're on special.

**jonolikespie**

Random Dude wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

While I take issue with that I'll admit that's pretty much the only reason I come to 40k general. The rest of Dakka is not a 40k forum however so I have plenty of reason to be there.

Now tell me why voicing my opinion is a bad thing?

**TheKbob**

Blacksails wrote:

wat

For Reference:

Spoiler:

A positive outlook on Games Workshop would be "They aren't failing that bad, right?"

**Blacksails**

Azreal13 wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Random Dude wrote:

I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

Sorry, let me know if it's permanently damaged and I'll get you a new one.

Perhaps one of those digital ones, if they're on special.

I'll have my people call your people.

TheKbob wrote:
Blacksails wrote:

wat

For Reference:

Spoiler:

A positive outlook on Games Workshop would be "They aren't failing that bad, right?"

I feel like everyone in that audience is high as a kite.

**TheKbob**

It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

But the general tone seems right for the article itself. The "is this happening and are we supposed to be in on the joke?" tone is what I'm saying. As stated, Reece has posted so many "WTF is GW thinking?!" videos to suddenly have this bombshell drop. And the BAO is very soon. Correlation and causation and what not...

**Blacksails**

TheKbob wrote:
It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

I think we did, I was just busy not doing acid.

*Edit* You all keep changing avatars! How am I supposed to remember who's who?

Either way, I'm imagining Kbob as that guy with the beard.

**Inquisitor Bob**

Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

**Yonan**

Random Dude wrote:
I think at this point, It's best if I just leave the debate entirely.

No need to do that, just keep this in mind:

Blacksails wrote:
As opposed to people who use dakka to voice their negativity about the negativity?

Or blind positivity for the sake of being positive?

Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents. A post isn't good or bad based on if its praising GW or if its knocking GW; its good if its well written, backed by some sort of logic/experience/evidence/fact/humourous story, and adds to the discussion in some small way.

Want Dakka to improve? Don't further polarize the community by supporting insults or categorizing players. Don't make threads that start off with the equivalent of 'something positive for a change'. Maybe you should reflect on why there's a general trend towards negativity when it comes to GW and their products. Engage with posters in a way where everyone can explain their reasons without being labelled. Understand where other posters are coming from.

It doesn't help your case for positive feelings when the article in question opens up with quite possibly the most apologetic reason I could ever conceive. There's plenty GW has done right and given us that we are appreciative of. Many of us may come off as bitter because of what GW is doing as opposed to what they could be doing to improve it.

That and I don't praise things for the sake of being positive and nice. Praise is given where praise is due.

**TheKbob**

Blacksails wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

I think we did, I was just busy not doing acid.

*Edit* You all keep changing avatars! How am I supposed to remember who's who?

Either way, I'm imagining Kbob as that guy with the beard.

I wish I could rock that awesome of a beard. All the talk about positive stuff got me thinking of a blog post that I like about positivity. And how Picard is a usual positive and optimistic character. Then I wanted a Picard avatar... this is how my mind works, don't judge.

**Azreal13**

Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

Ah, I see you're new, and therefore haven't been through the whole posting cycle yet. Believe me, if I thought there was anything to be gained by conducting a serious debate, I would. But I already have. Twice. In the last 6 months.

There comes a point where there really isn't any more to be said, but people still insist on saying it repeatedly. When I'm in the mood, I find it fun to pick holes in the opposing arguments, but at this point, it is like one of those cartoon sequences where the guy is swordfighting one-handed while reading a book, because the whole thing is so predictable.

Once the next financial report lands in a week or so, we'll have fresh meat and the age old debate can move on to the next phase

**H.B.M.C.**

Blacksails wrote:
Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents.

What more is there to say, really? I mean, the so-called "hate" posts are usually filled with reasons why the person dislikes a certain aspect. The "y'all just haterz" posts often say very little beyond that.

**Yonan**

And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

**TheKbob**

Azreal13 wrote:
Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

Ah, I see you're new, and therefore haven't been through the whole posting cycle yet. Believe me, if I thought there was anything to be gained by conducting a serious debate, I would. But I already have. Twice. In the last 6 months.

There comes a point where there really isn't any more to be said, but people still insist on saying it repeatedly. When I'm in the mood, I find it fun to pick holes in the opposing arguments, but at this point, it is like one of those cartoon sequences where the guy is swordfighting one-handed while reading a book, because the whole thing is so predictable.

Once the next financial report lands in a week or so, we'll have fresh meat and the age old debate can move on to the next phase

As Azreal stated, we've had this discussion already. There are several key threads in the Dakka Discussions forums that cover these topics in great length:

"Positive Thinking Week"
"The Future of Games Workshop - Parts 13 & 14"
"GW Share Price Development"
"The Parellels of GW Today with TSR"

Those four threads are supremely long and are full of the items already hashed out. Long story short is that the game is getting worse with every release, the value of the products is deteriorating by their own measure (and worse in comparison to competitive brands), all while Games Workshop is seemingly sticking to it's guns and doing all the marked posturing of a company trapped in a fiscal death spiral.

Remember, apologist is an actual definable term. Hater is internet slang used usually by immature parties to describe the opposition to some sort of affinity the term user may have towards a certain object, action, or style choice that goes beyond rationality or reasoning. If you use the term "Haters Gonna Hate" in any serious fashion, then... ... just don't.

**Swastakowey**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents.

What more is there to say, really? I mean, the so-called "hate" posts are usually filled with reasons why the person dislikes a certain aspect. The "y'all just haterz" posts often say very little beyond that.

The haters get called haters because of how often they voice hate about what they hate, not why they hate or what they hate.

I hate GW. I even complain sometimes. But I am yet to be called a hater here (well not that I have seen).

At least thats why I think people hate the haters. Like the example used earlier, reading them gets like the guy who sword fights one handedly while reading a book. Its very predictable.

It takes training to ignore those thread haha.

**Azreal13**

Personally, I'd dispense with the word "hater" altogether in favour of something more suitable, but that would leave a lot of posters with very little to post about.....

**BlaxicanX**

Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

**TheKbob**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.
So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

I believe is his statement is that the individuals seen as most critical, or negative, of Games Workshop and their games are predominantly those that would be most interested in their success and the games being, as one would say, fething amazing.

But, just call me another insane crazy.

**dresnar1**

GW Innovative?!?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

OH MY SIDES!!!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Humm maybe GW is innovative. They are innovating what not to do if you are a gaming company.

Fire Jervis Johnson!!!!!

**Yonan**

TheKbob wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.
So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

I believe is his statement is that the individuals seen as most critical, or negative, of Games Workshop and their games are predominantly those that would be most interested in their success and the games being, as one would say, fething amazing.

But, just call me another insane crazy.

Correct! I'd love it if GW produced products I was happy to buy again, much like FFG and Relic does. It also shows that we're not just negative about the topic and will happily say when things are awesome - and why we think some things are awesome as opposed to other things.

**ashikenshin**

dresnar1 wrote:
GW Innovative?!?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

OH MY SIDES!!!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Humm maybe GW is innovative. They are innovating what not to do if you are a gaming company.

Fire Jervis Johnson!!!!!

I guess this guy isnt doing the "haterz" any favors huh?

**TheKbob**

ashikenshin wrote:

I guess this guy isnt doing the "haterz" any favors huh?

Much like politics, too much time is spent talking about fissures between parties and not of the actual issues. So be bigger than the dissent and discuss the matters and not the labels.

Remember, only Games Workshop games features such a massive divide in their community that is quick to have sides label each other. Sounds very much like other large pools of generally ignorant folks all finger pointing over some poorly written words on paper.

**ashikenshin**

Hahaha well for what is worth I see that people like to complain. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I experienced it before in other gaming forums. People who spent the most time playing the game were the most vocal. But, I felt that the official forums were a great place for it since the developers heard this people and made the changes necessary to make the game better. Here is just a place to vent, but if you only have people who agree with you then you might not say all that you need to say.

Will it make the game better for anybody? Most certainly nope. Does it satisfy you to talk to people who are as passionate about this as you? Probably

I like these forums a lot and spend way too much time reading them hahaha

**Janthkin**

This thread started poorly, and degenerated from there. I think we'll put it to bed.