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I would agree. Models are one thing and yes GW models are absurdly priced in many cases and their rulebooks and dexes are also way too high. Even if some are willing to keep buying at whatever cost it not only makes it hard to get new players to start the game but lots of veteran players have reached a point where the cost is a factor in dropping 40k or at least drastically scaling back purchases.

The other point has to be the poor rules/dexes, IMO. There will be those that like the rules how they are or grumble but continue buying/playing but the incredibly horrible balance issues, scores of sup-par units and wargear make 40k unbearable for many players that would likely come back if serious effort was put in to correct this issue. On top of this is errata done properly - correct rules problems or point cost problems or whatever to make all units gear functional and balanced (not talking about perfection here).

I think without both GW will keep spiraling down.

jbunny wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
It's fine to have high priced generals and heavy support options so long as the troops are cheap.

It's really not. Models should be priced on practical design and production costs, not on their in-game role.

For less than the cost of one mono-pose, plastic space marine commander, you can get a box of three mono-pose, plastic Guild Riflemen, each of which are of equal or better quality. If you're not interested in Guild, there are dozens of other choices.

Even in their large kits, GW are overpriced. When I can get three of these for the cost of one riptide, or five for the price of one Imperial Knight, the issue really comes into focus. Especially considering that the kit I linked to is fully poseable and molded in full color.

The price of GW kits are really and truly inexcusable. This is why they're in such decline: excessive cost for kits that are average at best, sub-par at worst.

I do not disagree with you that prices are both too high and not consistent with themselves. But as I explained above lowering prices will not fix GW, not unless they expect to sell 50% more units. GW has backed themselves into a corner that is going to be difficult to get out.

You're absolutely right. For business reasons, they can't just slash prices. There's no guarantee that sales would respond proportionally, and that's the issue. GW has put themselves into a position where they can't go on in their current plan, but may or may not be able to afford to course correct. That doesn't change the fact that the kits are a poor value as they stand right now.

 Guildsman wrote:
You're absolutely right. For business reasons, they can't just slash prices. There's no guarantee that sales would respond proportionally, and that's the issue. GW has put themselves into a position where they can't go on in their current plan, but may or may not be able to afford to course correct. That doesn't change the fact that the kits are a poor value as they stand right now.

I agree, which is why I would aim to increase the value to turn it around. You don't need to lower the prices or throw more models in the box but little things like talking to the community, supporting and running events, listening to feedback, putting painting articles and short stories in White Dwarf instead of trying to sell them separately and put some White Dwarf articles up on the website a few months later for free.

GW need to become a company people want to buy from again, if the do the price issue wont go away but it'll diminish greatly.

 Guildsman wrote:

jbunny wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
It's fine to have high priced generals and heavy support options so long as the troops are cheap.

It's really not. Models should be priced on practical design and production costs, not on their in-game role.

For less than the cost of one mono-pose, plastic space marine commander, you can get a box of three mono-pose, plastic Guild Riflemen, each of which are of equal or better quality. If you're not interested in Guild, there are dozens of other choices.

Even in their large kits, GW are overpriced. When I can get three of these for the cost of one riptide, or five for the price of one Imperial Knight, the issue really comes into focus. Especially considering that the kit I linked to is fully poseable and molded in full color.

The price of GW kits are really and truly inexcusable. This is why they're in such decline: excessive cost for kits that are average at best, sub-par at worst.

I do not disagree with you that prices are both too high and not consistent with themselves. But as I explained above lowering prices will not fix GW, not unless they expect to sell 50% more units. GW has backed themselves into a corner that is going to be difficult to get out.

You're absolutely right. For business reasons, they can't just slash prices. There's no guarantee that sales would respond proportionally, and that's the issue. GW has put themselves into a position where they can't go on in their current plan, but may or may not be able to afford to course correct. That doesn't change the fact that the kits are a poor value as they stand right now.

They are a big enough company they can afford to test market. They could release boxed set / bundles that reduce the overall cost for a set of models, or slash prices on individual units.

I am of the theory that GW's latest problems are a result of being too expensive for parents to afford for their kids. Gotta have a gateway.

Want to increase good will with the players ?
Want to encourage people to play and buy more armies ?
Want to do it with a minimal, if not neglible, investment ?

DOUBLE the contents of all, non vehicle, boxes of product. That's it. Don't need to lower the prices, just include more product.

When the price per figure drops from the current $5 a fig level to $2.50 per figure, the recasters and 3rd party manufacturers won't be able to compete in resin.

The existing player base doens't feel like they are being bent over a barrel buying 5 man squads, and models like Centurians and Meganobz become less comically priced, ecouraging players to expand their collections.

People stop buying as many recast models, recasters stop recasting because it's not profitable, and GW sells more GW models.

3rd party manufacturers product become niche and no longer high quality resin for the same price as GW plastic

There are a lot of great replies in this thread, but I can't help but feel that many suggestions would end up hurting or killing FLGSs. If GW slashed prices or doubled the contents of boxes, I know our store wouldn't be able to survive the loss of revenue unless GW also decided to buy back all the product that we currently have (in which case they probably couldn't handle the losses). If I were put in charge of GW,there would be a number of new policies that I would implement.

1) Customer outreach-
this one should be obvious to everyone. They need to renew their facebook accounts, establish "official" forums, and re-implement the skulls program. Customers who feel like they are getting a good deal or something for free are happy customers. I would also change white dwarf (again) and redesign it along the lines of WSS or Wargames Illustrated.
2) More games-
Look at some of the most popular games out there besides 40k. You have skirmish games, fighter games, fleet games- the list goes on. Re-releasing Battlefleet gothic with modern rules and new miniatures and watch Spartan Games implode overnight. Make a 15mm version of Epic and compete with Hawk and Battlefront. I know if they made a modern version of Necromunda and Mordheim I would pack my store with old-timers coming out of the woodwork. If they wanted to keep people from using their bigger armies in skirmish games, make the figures 30-32mm, though I personally would keep it at 28mm. GW has some of the best rules-writers in the world working for them, give them the atmosphere and support to make amazing games. Develop fast play rules that allow a gamer to play with a battleforce or less. GW already makes the best figures out there (IMO).
3) Licence your brand/magazine/stores. GW is a game/model company. Why are they trying to sell tools/brushes/scenery. I'm not even talking about GF9 or ArmyPainter, I think their stuff is even more marked up than GWs. Partner with Vallejo for paints, Woodland Scenics, Plastruct and Evergreen for your terrain and partner with Zona, Testors, Bob Smith and Xuron for tools and glue. All of these companies specialize in materials for modelers, and their quality is better for less money than GW's competitors. Most gamers aren't aware of these companies, and will be amazed at the difference. Have these brands repackage their products in GW labels and watch the competition dry up. Carry Airbrushes/resin casting/ model building materials in your stores, and sell/trade ad space in your magazine for these partners. None of these companies are or should be competitors with GW, and farming out the supplements can allow GW to focus on what they do best.

ATAHobbies wrote:
There are a lot of great replies in this thread, but I can't help but feel that many suggestions would end up hurting or killing FLGSs. If GW slashed prices or doubled the contents of boxes, I know our store wouldn't be able to survive the loss of revenue unless GW also decided to buy back all the product that we currently have (in which case they probably couldn't handle the losses). If I were put in charge of GW,there would be a number of new policies that I would implement.

1) Customer outreach-
this one should be obvious to everyone. They need to renew their facebook accounts, establish "official" forums, and re-implement the skulls program. Customers who feel like they are getting a good deal or something for free are happy customers. I would also change white dwarf (again) and redesign it along the lines of WSS or Wargames Illustrated.
2) More games-
Look at some of the most popular games out there besides 40k. You have skirmish games, fighter games, fleet games- the list goes on. Re-releasing Battlefleet gothic with modern rules and new miniatures and watch Spartan Games implode overnight. Make a 15mm version of Epic and compete with Hawk and Battlefront. I know if they made a modern version of Necromunda and Mordheim I would pack my store with old-timers coming out of the woodwork. If they wanted to keep people from using their bigger armies in skirmish games, make the figures 30-32mm, though I personally would keep it at 28mm. GW has some of the best rules-writers in the world working for them, give them the atmosphere and support to make amazing games. Develop fast play rules that allow a gamer to play with a battleforce or less. GW already makes the best figures out there (IMO).
3) Licence your brand/magazine/stores. GW is a game/model company. Why are they trying to sell tools/brushes/scenery. I'm not even talking about GF9 or ArmyPainter, I think their stuff is even more marked up than GWs. Partner with Vallejo for paints, Woodland Scenics, Plastruct and Evergreen for your terrain and partner with Zona, Testors, Bob Smith and Xuron for tools and glue. All of these companies specialize in materials for modelers, and their quality is better for less money than GW's competitors. Most gamers aren't aware of these companies, and will be amazed at the difference. Have these brands repackage their products in GW labels and watch the competition dry up. Carry Airbrushes/resin casting/ model building materials in your stores, and sell/trade ad space in your magazine for these partners. None of these companies are or should be competitors with GW, and farming out the supplements can allow GW to focus on what they do best.

I am going to both agree and disagree with this in general....

Getting rid of their support lines would hurt them - I know folks hat buy GW paints (over priced as they are) but not GW miniatures. As for their plastic buildings - the last GW items that I bought are GW terrain pieces. (Bought at half price at a store that was going out of business - not because of GW, just a messy divorce.)

But I also think that GW needs to reestablish their stores as general gaming stores - carry other folks material. Acknowledge that they aren't the HHHobby.

The Auld Grump - it is what GW started as, once upon a time....

While lowering prices may not fix the problem as some said, it is the main reason for me, and I believe others we are out. We have put up with shoddy and unsupported rules for years now. We even put up with price increases, but enough is enough now.

Enough of shoddy unsupported rules. Enough of poor writing and unedited rules. Enough with copy/paste. While yearly price increases are gone, but raising prices during a codex launch is just as bad. The buy in is way too expensive.

If GW feels that sales give a bad view or seems to deman their product, then don't have prices so high that people seem you need to have sales then.

Also don't think we are stupid. Giving a 33% price decrease while giving out 50% of the product is an actual price increase. Don't force your customers to pay more for less.

Also get rid of White Dwarf or give it away for free. After all, it is advertising. Why are you making your customers pay for advertising? Usually companies pay for advertising, not charging others for it.

Don't make us feel like if you could, you would charge us the air we breathe for walking into your store.

I love how many people have a fantasy that GW could just drop prices 30-40% and not have problems with that.

It is rather simple of stop abusing customers (making a codex then making it playable by releasing data slates to extort a bit more). Stop with the weird fragmentation of say like the HH series into a million mini stories and books, similarly a codex should be a codex not a codex and ten dataslates and then there are the supplements...

Listen to what customers want, Chaos wanted customisation of legions, start doing it and you'll sell more.

As people have said community engagement, but the biggest one by far is license out some products.

Understand video games are real and money makes, engage with developers and make it happen. To little is being done on this front but I'm very hopeful about ECrusade.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I love how many people have a fantasy that GW could just drop prices 30-40% and not have problems with that.

Well it's the raising prices that they priced out a lot of people out of their hobby. So what you are telling me, if you are having engine problems with your car, you change the tires? The reason why people left are prices. So if you still have high prices a lot of people will not be coming back no matter what.

So you telling me, if you do something and it keeps hurting, you stop it right? You do something else so it doesn't hurt. So if you keep rising prices and people are leaving because of it, you still keep raising prizes? No you should stop raising prices and then lower them so YOU GET MORE SALES. Only time you don't WANT MORE SALES is when you are comfortable making the small sales you have now. GW doesn't want to grow, it's happy with it's small sales base.

It is rather simple of stop abusing customers (making a codex then making it playable by releasing data slates to extort a bit more). Stop with the weird fragmentation of say like the HH series into a million mini stories and books, similarly a codex should be a codex not a codex and ten dataslates and then there are the supplements...

This is what people were asking for. GW just implemented it differently than what people wanted. I guess people thought they wanted data slates and but they wanted them later because they were use to the every 4 or 5 years redo. They wanted something in a 2 year cycle not the next week after release of the new codex.

Listen to what customers want, Chaos wanted customisation of legions, start doing it and you'll sell more.

Well that is obvious. I am shocked GW doesn't do this. No wonder the AM have those ugly vehicles, Thorax or what ever it's called.

As people have said community engagement, but the biggest one by far is license out some products.

GW is like Wizkids. They can't handle any negative criticism. Then again, GW can't make a good product, so instead of making a good product it's easier to just delete negative comments. When that becomes too much work, just shut everything down.

Then again, GW fostered a sick/venomous/negative environment. They made a lot of us hateful and spiteful. It is only GW who can turn this around. If they don't want to do it, then that means they want to accept it.

Understand video games are real and money makes, engage with developers and make it happen. To little is being done on this front but I'm very hopeful about ECrusade.

Not sure what you are talking about? There is so many video games out there about 40K and some for Fantast, GW is already doing it. Why do you say GW nned to understand video games are real. It is not GW fault that people don't know how to make video games. Then again, it is GW fault for letting CRAPPY 40K video games being made and released though.

Well they had a huge success with Space Marine and it is a great way to build the IP similarly with Dawn of War and they were good games to boot. But the fall of THQ and as such the loss of a number of licenses that were active means nothing is being done to capitalise on them and this is simply a problem of GW not going forward and engaging with the video games industry to get that ball rolling again.

But that is largely because they are a collectibles company, and hate money. Or at least that seems to be the case.

As for the prices no, the prices are actually fine. People will blow £40 on a game or £80 on a night out where I am from but balk at £20 for a box of space marines? You get the time painting and playing and a fairly decent resale value at the end. But regardless of whether or not you agree with that I'll say this:

They have a feduciary responsibility to their shareholders and can't play fast and lose with a 40% drop in prices (we don't even know if that would cover the full costs, I doubt they have that big a margin) and hope that it would be made up in increased sales. What they could do is freeze prices and largely they have been. Not overcharging people for codexs would be a good start.

This thing with the dataslates though, we wanted updates not a wallet grab that feels more like a personal violation and not engineered new codexes that are designed to "need" the data slates.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
As for the prices no, the prices are actually fine. People will blow £40 on a game or £80 on a night out where I am from but balk at £20 for a box of space marines? You get the time painting and playing and a fairly decent resale value at the end. But regardless of whether or not you agree with that I'll say this:

They have a feduciary responsibility to their shareholders and can't play fast and lose with a 40% drop in prices (we don't even know if that would cover the full costs, I doubt they have that big a margin) and hope that it would be made up in increased sales. What they could do is freeze prices and largely they have been. Not overcharging people for codexs would be a good start.

This thing with the dataslates though, we wanted updates not a wallet grab that feels more like a personal violation and not engineered new codexes that are designed to "need" the data slates.

You would have a valid argument if a box of Space Marines was enough to PLAY THE FETHING GAME, but it's not. You need a lot more than "£20 for a box of space marines" to play 40k, that's the problem. Even their "bundles" (even the actual deals) is barely entry-level for a good chunk of cash, that's the issue. Spending $300USD on a boxed army is fine and dandy, but not so much when that boxed army is like 750 points, the bare minimum for any kind of serious game, because you have to spend a lot more to actually get a decent sized army.

Yeah well a night out in the UK gets you 2 boxes of space marines and two rhinos.

ONE FETHING NIGHT OUT.

So a month of Saturday night outs is £240. I just took a 1500p list and priced it up and it came to £249 exactly (the one with no Wraithknights on front page) so its the equivalent of 4 nights out but unlike the nights out you have a lot to show for it and no crabs or liver trouble, Chuck in a codex and rule book and we are getting pricier and I am in agreement these things are a bit ridiculous.

So the fact is people do not place appropriate monetary value on what is giving them countless hours of enjoyment and no hangover. Unless you play and beer like me then you get both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and a PS4 costs what? Before you buy any games?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Yeah well a night out in the UK gets you 2 boxes of space marines and two rhinos.

ONE FETHING NIGHT OUT.

So a month of Saturday night outs is £240. I just took a 1500p list and priced it up and it came to £249 exactly (the one with no Wraithknights on front page) so its the equivalent of 4 nights out but unlike the nights out you have a lot to show for it and no crabs or liver trouble, Chuck in a codex and rule book and we are getting pricier and I am in agreement these things are a bit ridiculous.

So the fact is people do not place appropriate monetary value on what is giving them countless hours of enjoyment and no hangover. Unless you play and beer like me then you get both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and a PS4 costs what? Before you buy any games?

And GW costs less than a Ferrari, so what?
The point is a comparison to other war games because they're competing for the same customers' money.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


(Comparing GW to a night on the town)

That's cool.

Now compare GW wargaming to its actual competition, ie, other wargames.

Yeah it is disposable leisure income. It is entirely relevant. What is GW's competition? There is no one out there with their quality of sculpts or scale and design. In this they remain a very very good company, it is the management that let them down.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Yeah it is disposable leisure income. It is entirely relevant. What is GW's competition? There is no one out there with their quality of sculpts or scale and design. In this they remain a very very good company, it is the management that let them down.

Ah there we go, the standard "Nobody can compare with quality or scale" argument. No, you are wrong. GW has a lot of competition: Warmachine/Hordes, Malifaux, Infinity, Bolt Action, Kings of War, etc. All this crap really boils down to is "There's no competing large scale 28mm grimdark sci-fi wargame with Space Marines called Warhammer 40k".

GW prices should be compared only to other wargames, not to any sort of disposable leisure income; if you collect antique cars it can be very expensive, that doesn't mean that GW's price are okay because some unrelated activity costs a lot more. This kind of fallacy argument really needs to stop being made, because not only is it incorrect but it's insulting to people who make actual comparisons as it comes off as being completely ignorant and dismissive of the actual argument, comparing apples to oranges to prove a nonexistent point.

Yes that is entirely comparable when I evaluate my hobby be it cars, drinking or wargaming I am looking at the value for money I get out of it and how I utilise my disposable income relative to that.

Since I like 40k, the setting, the models and other associated things comparing it to another wargame would be just as irrelevant as I give no gaks about them. Unless there were two competing companies using the same IP.

Ultimately I feel I am getting value for money, I think comparisons show higher quality and they aren't a new company that just does models, there is all sorts of other baggage with 40k that add to that value.

I'm fine with that, and having personally run a few businesses where people thought I was making a fortune, when realistically they had no idea of the hidden costs, I wouldn't advocate a 40% cut in prices without knowing their bottom lines. I think its ignorant to do so.

To quote a representative of Reaper: "While I agree we are competitors, there are major differences in how each of our companies approach marketing and sales, let alone the products themselves, and the intended purposes/uses of them.

We try to keep the prices of our models well within the industry norms, and on the low side of average in fact, where we can afford to do so. Nevertheless, there will be model for model comparisons where GW comes off cheaper, as I am sure there are comparions one could find where a Reaper figure come out cheaper than a comparably sized GW model.

We're just happy to provide high quality figures as an alternative. "

It might be a valid comparison for you yourself, but it's not a valid comparison for a discussion on it. Comparing wargame to wargame GW is almost always more expensive, at least in initial "investment", than any other wargame.

Jaq Draco lives brings up a great point. It is disposable leisure income. So we can compare to other companies similar to GW, and video games and drinking out, and movies and dining out etc etc.

The problem is, Games Workshop is not giving me VALUE. For other people it can be great Value. Buying cigarettes on the Indian Reserve is way cheaper and great value. For them, not for me. GW value may be great for others, but it's not.

When I rather spend $100 going out or what not than on GW, that that means I am getting better VALUE that what GW is giving me.

So when people are saying is costing too much, that to me means, they are not getting as much Value that they would be from another game or what ever else. There is more value in video games, or smoking, or drinking or even going out to see a movie. Yes going to a movie with a couple could cost $50 for a nite, and that could be a box of Space Marines, but there is more Value in going out than buying a box of Space Marines.

So it comes down to value not how much something costs to something else. I am getting less value buying a book or rules at $100 from GW since it will only last 2 years now.

While GW can be said they make the best plastic miniatures (can be debated) GW is offering less and less value over time now.

I don't mind paying full price for GW stuff. Problem is when I don't get the value for what I am paying, they why purchase something?

Why go out and buy a $170 mini (Imperial Knight) if nobody wants to play against it? Where is the value in that? Where is the value in paying almost $100 in rules if it's only for less than 2 years?

GW is not giving enough BANG for the Buck.

I think we'd be more kindly disposed to the model prices (but probably a price freeze over a long time, they've forgone yearly price increases btw but increased prices as new sculpts arrive) if they weren't increasing prices of codexes then adding formations on top through data slates.

Formations should be free, with all the rules only in the codex, so you pay once and everything else comes for free.

They are trying to get more money out of every person and not just through model sales and I think that means they aren't so much valuing us as customers but seeing what they can get out of us. Codexes, well I don't care if they went hardback and are nicer, they are still more expensive no matter how you justify it. I don't want pretty in my codex (and they don't even have good artwork in anymore, just photos).

So yeah I think it is less about individual model cost and the gestalt of the cost of the game and where the value is in the rest of it.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I think we'd be more kindly disposed to the model prices (but probably a price freeze over a long time, they've forgone yearly price increases btw but increased prices as new sculpts arrive) if they weren't increasing prices of codexes then adding formations on top through data slates.

Formations should be free, with all the rules only in the codex, so you pay once and everything else comes for free.

They are trying to get more money out of every person and not just through model sales and I think that means they aren't so much valuing us as customers but seeing what they can get out of us. Codexes, well I don't care if they went hardback and are nicer, they are still more expensive no matter how you justify it. I don't want pretty in my codex (and they don't even have good artwork in anymore, just photos).

So yeah I think it is less about individual model cost and the gestalt of the cost of the game and where the value is in the rest of it.

Well said. I am not a coffee drinker but the saying can be said none the less. While yes that mini costs $170, I could for go Timmies for a while (Timmies for those that don't know is Tim Hortons a coffee chain in Canada that millions love) to get it. Problem is, where is the Value in forgoing the Timmies when I don't see the value in the mini. I get more satisfaction getting a Timmies.

Codices became 100% more expensive and getting less value. Nice on the book shelf, a pain to carry around because of being bigger and heavier. Less value more expensive. Also a you said, data slates and the supplemental books that come out one weak later after the release of a codex. Now instead of paying 100% more you feel like you need to pay 200% more or Quadrupling the price of what should have been a normal codex.

Why doesn't GW give me value? What is wrong for paying for expensive books if in the return I will be getting free data slates and formations? I swear, if GW could charge us for the air we breathe when in their stores they would.

I'm a bit concerned that they do something like write the Ork codex with the crappy mob rule table deliberately to sell you fearless via a data slate.

If so they are outright treating customers as the enemy, a mark to be scammed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe that is just crazy cynical...

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Yeah it is disposable leisure income. It is entirely relevant. What is GW's competition? There is no one out there with their quality of sculpts or scale and design. In this they remain a very very good company, it is the management that let them down.

A Games Workshop model



Not a Games Workshop model

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Yeah it is disposable leisure income. It is entirely relevant. What is GW's competition? There is no one out there with their quality of sculpts or scale and design. In this they remain a very very good company, it is the management that let them down.

A Games Workshop model



Not a Games Workshop model

Geez wonder where they got there inspiration from for power armoured gladiators from. I mean ffs if you are going to pick a rather silly bad example instead of any of the amazing GW or FW sculpts that are so detailed they are just wonderful to look at and paint...and contrast it with someone else doing it you could at least pick someone who isn't basically creating something obviously designed to be used in 40k!

It basically says, yeah there are some other quality sculptors out there, more or less nothing to match the IP though. And GW don't just do a few quality sculpts, it is army after army and the FW stuff is a huge range with the creation of heresy era stuff.

Also I find Scibor rather silly looking, something not right about them at all. I don't think its a good comparison.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Yeah it is disposable leisure income. It is entirely relevant. What is GW's competition? There is no one out there with their quality of sculpts or scale and design. In this they remain a very very good company, it is the management that let them down.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

It basically says, yeah there are some other quality sculptors out there, more or less nothing to match the IP though. And GW don't just do a few quality sculpts, it is army after army and the FW stuff is a huge range with the creation of heresy era stuff.

Need a hand moving those goal posts, or are you good by yourself?

It's a great comparison? Just saying it's not a great comparison means nothing without an explanation.

Just look at the detail. Once looks like a cartoon the other one looks serious and grid mark. Even the painting of the "armoured man" looks so much better than what GW is putting out now.

While one is a copy of the others work, it goes to show you how much better someone else can do your own work.

Is this competition? Nope. This is a small company with a couple of to my mind mediocre sculpts based off GW IP. I don't think I am moving goal posts as these aren't competition they are tagging onto GW.

Now instead of picking the worst GW model why not compare it to one of their best?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is the competition...and its crap:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Is this competition? Nope. This is a small company with a couple of to my mind mediocre sculpts based off GW IP. I don't think I am moving goal posts as these aren't competition they are tagging onto GW.

Now instead of picking the worst GW model why not compare it to one of their best?

LOL what are we doing debating each other today? I love a good debate. Problem with that mini, is GW is not releasing good minis like that anymore. Pirate Orks, A Pregnant Robot looking Ork, and a Space Wolf riding a sleigh. Not great things coming out of GW lately. I am almost dreading what Blood Angel players are going to get.

GW was once great. Not so anymore now. Creativity in minis are considerably lacking now. While I will agree the Imperial Knight is an awesome mini, what has GW produced in the last 6 months that make you go OH MY GOD THAT IS AWESOME? I know when my army came out, Tyranids, it was lack luster in the mini department. Nothing there that I had to buy right away. Astra Militarium or was it the other one? (See name eludes me, so not really exciting there.) Now I finally stopped laughing when ever I look at their Torax or tank or car, what ever it is. Now I just groan when ever a pic of it is shown.

So as the title says, How to turn GW around, not dwelling in the past.

As GW treats us, what have we bought from them lately, we an turn that around and say, "What has GW done for us lately?"

No, I know, let's compare two models with very similar subjects, rather than arbitrarily comparing across ranges.













You also need to educate yourself on the definition of "competition." Any company selling product into the same market is competition, there are merely degrees of significance.

You also need to learn the difference between subjective opinion (you don't like the Warmachine model? Fair enough, neither do I) and quantifiable fact (that Warmachine model isn't hugely more expensive than that single, infantry sized, very low points in game, Commisar)