Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

nkelsch wrote:
*Ok, so you have 8-20 tables... Let's say you have open gaming with no restrictions!!! Half those tables are full of MTG and other card games. You have that RPG group in the corner taking up two tables. You have a few board gamers. So out of 20 tables you are down to 6 for wargaming. Ooops, now of the 14 people there to wargame, 6 play 40k, 6 play warmachine and 2 play Deadzone.

So you have 6 players for 40k, and enough tables for 3 games. How exactly is that worse than a GW store where you have 10 players for 40k but only 2 tables available, and the store closes at 8pm so forget about having time to play a second game unless you spend a whole weekend day camped in the store hoping to get a turn? The simple fact is that at a decent independent store even being stuck in the back corner on the leftover tables still gives you more gaming opportunities than a GW store.

*Ok... So Used Car salesmen and 'looking down' on my models for not being GW models is annoying. Know what is also annoying? A Store owner who takes mental calculations of what he knows people have bought through him and knows what 'internet bitz' he doesn't sell. I would rather play with my GW models guilt-free with a minor car salesman schtick than get the 3rd degree of 'where did you buy those models' and 'we don't sell those here, why didn't you ask me to order them?' or 'You know Kickstarters are killing the FLGS!'

IOW, let's just assume that the independent store owner is TFG while the GW employee is an amazing guy? Why not instead assume that both are the same kind of person, in which case if you play in the GW store you can expect the same criticism of "internet bits" and might even be told to put away your non-GW models and never bring them again.

*GW bunkers are great. Lots of space. Even my smaller GWs have 6-8 tables.

How many of these stores still exist? The bunkers are all closed, and GW is in the process of replacing all of the old normal-size stores with one-person closets in a random corner of whatever strip mall has the cheapest rent in the area. The local GW store here has three tables, and one of them is permanently reserved for starter set demo games (which really means it's reserved for holding the starter set models while they collect dust, since I've never seen any new customers come into the store). Maybe you're lucky enough to have a larger GW with a lease that hasn't ended yet, but don't expect it to be there much longer.

 Peregrine wrote:

How many of these stores still exist? The bunkers are all closed, and GW is in the process of replacing all of the old normal-size stores with one-person closets in a random corner of whatever strip mall has the cheapest rent in the area. The local GW store here has three tables, and one of them is permanently reserved for starter set demo games (which really means it's reserved for holding the starter set models while they collect dust, since I've never seen any new customers come into the store). Maybe you're lucky enough to have a larger GW with a lease that hasn't ended yet, but don't expect it to be there much longer.

That 3 tables with 1 permanently reserved is the standard here in Australia and I do believe everywhere else in the world that is a single man store, if you're local store has 6 tables you're the outlier.

 Lockark wrote:

Spoiler:

 Eilif wrote:

Shotgun wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
****Disclaimer - This is for the US only. I assume GW in the UK works similarly but only know 100% for sure this is the US Policy****

GW Stores are for recruiting this has been the case since at least 2001. The only stores based around regular gamers were the Battle Bunkers. First they get new hobbyists into warhammer or 40k and then the purpose is then to shift the newly recruited people out to FLGS's. It's up to the FLGS and the GW employee though to make this relationship work.

I think that is a doomed plan from the start. What incentive does the FLGS have to take on the maintenance of the new customer? The GW store has likely already sold him his rule books and pulled out all of his initial investment of models, then passes him off to the FLGS to game at. The FLGS now has to eat the overhead costs associated with this player without any associated sales from him/her. The FLGS has to hope that the new player stays within the game -and- wants to expand the army -and- wants to expand it from the limited availablity of models can sell. Hopefully its a third tactical squad and not a couple Direct Only special characters.

Completely disagree.
The smart FLGS creates a home for the Wargamer. GW stores don't offer a discount, so the FLGS isn't competing with them on price (though they do compete with online retailers). The FLGS just has to generate enough loyalty that the gamer will come to them when they want too...
-buy hobby supplies (paint, dice, flock etc)
-Start a new army
-Move to a new game
-Add units to their army. (yes I realize that some units are only orderable)
-Buy terrain
-Buy the new edition, codex, etc.
-Play in a tournament
-etc, etc.

The FLGS has EVERY incentive to maintain the new customer. It simply requires having a longer term view of the customer as a "Gamer" and not just a "GW newbie who already bought their army". My favorite FLGS is my favorite because they carry alot of non-GW stuff. However, GW product still occupies a larger part of the store than any other maker (reaper is a close second) is located at the front of the store, and they still have alot of GW games played in their gaming area during the week.

And this is a store with at least 3 GW stores in a 20 mile radius, and one that's located in the nearby super-Mega-Mall that's only 7 miles away. Yet the FLGS still thrives.

It seems to me that you don't realize how hard it can be for a gameing store to keep profitable. Many can't offer the same deep discount online retailers offer.

War hammer games aren't even the bread winner that other products are.

Don't know where you got that from what I said. You've either misread my response (and what I was responding to) or you're putting some words in my mouth.
-Nowhere did I say it was easy to keep profitable
-Never did I say that an FLGS can offer the same discounts as online retailers.
-I acknowledged that the FLGS must compete with online business.
-I never said Warhammer is the bread and butter of a game store. (that usually belongs to CCG's)

However, I stand by my assessment that the FLGS has every incentive to draw the new GW gamer from the GW store (even if they've already bought their first round of stuff) since they will need more, and -as you say- the FLGS needs every sale it can get. Despite at least 3 GW stores in the area, most of the successful game stores in Chicagoland (though not all) have GW products as one of their lines and the oldest and largest features it prominently with prime store space and lots of it. Apparently they see the value in taking GW customers when they can.