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35% off RAFM and their stock of Reaper miniatures : http://www.rafm.com/

ced1106 wrote:
35% off RAFM and their stock of Reaper miniatures : http://www.rafm.com/

Well, there went $40.

That IMEF Bulldog is going on my wishlist!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
That IMEF Bulldog is going on my wishlist!

x2 - Interesting to see it's the "Bulldog 1", wonder what other variants are in the pipeline...

Part of me wants to use one of these as a Greater Demon of Nurgle, or maybe a Nurgle Demon Prince

There's a lot of room for slime or tentacles in the lower mouth. Nice and gross.

 adamsouza wrote:
Part of me wants to use one of these as a Greater Demon of Nurgle, or maybe a Nurgle Demon Prince

Adam... I am disappoint.

Everyone knows that's obviously supposed to be a Herald of Nurgle.
I mean, come on, man. One can only get away with so much when using "Counts As." Let's not push it too far. All right?
Don't make me call you WAAC!

Eric

Well victoria lamb convinced me. I shall get some bones townsfolk, and maybe a pirate!

 MagickalMemories wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Part of me wants to use one of these as a Greater Demon of Nurgle, or maybe a Nurgle Demon Prince

Adam... I am disappoint.

Everyone knows that's obviously supposed to be a Herald of Nurgle.
I mean, come on, man. One can only get away with so much when using "Counts As." Let's not push it too far. All right?
Don't make me call you WAAC!

Eric

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking.

 adamsouza wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, the cartoons in Force Five were from the late 70's but I don't think it gained real traction here until the early to mid-80's.

Reaper should totally make Anime Style Giant Robots.

Not sure if joking...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-cav-strike-operations

More like this

Spoiler:

I had the small one with the drill and the large blue one that had a jet as the cockpit / head and the large yellow one with missiles in its chest.

The bones townsfolk are very nice models. They paint up quickly, and work really well for non-combat NPCs for RPGS.

 adamsouza wrote:
Part of me wants to use one of these as a Greater Demon of Nurgle, or maybe a Nurgle Demon Prince

First thing I thought was..."are they going to make add on little guys trying to pop the jewels out of the eyes?"

 Theophony wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Part of me wants to use one of these as a Greater Demon of Nurgle, or maybe a Nurgle Demon Prince

First thing I thought was..."are they going to make add on little guys trying to pop the jewels out of the eyes?"

That's already been done:





http://otherworldminiatures.co.uk/shop/demons-devils/dd1a-the-demon-idol-diorama-pack/

Thanks for that Alpharius , totally forgot about that company. Any idea how that kickstarter went?

It was on Indiegogo, and I'm still waiting for half of my stuff to be delivered.

As are many others.

I'd say that it did not go well.

Again thanks , glad I steered clear.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:


At first glance, it doesn't make much sense. However, if you pick them up - the dwarf is notably heavier than the dragon. The dragon is also in a few parts - so you don't have the undercuts like you have around the dwarf's beard and axe.

IIRC, they felt the need to watch the mold life more closely due to the cost of mold blanks going up a bit. You will also notice that there has been a bit of a price increase on big things. Same reasoning behind it, though the issue there of course is that when it comes to replacing the mold for a big miniature, the mold costs more than the mold for little miniatures.

Granted, even with all that said - I don't fault companies for raising prices. I know my own bills go up year after year (both for consumables like groceries and what not - as well as taxes, utilities and the rest of the bills). I get a bit annoyed when they go up a lot...like one company in particular tends to like to do... (especially when you look at said companies bills and they are not going up...).

Sean thanks for the information, as an outsider I'm used to only looking at size and/or licence for a mini, never really thought of the issues involved in molding them.

I wonder, will Reaper's Bones end up killing their metal? I'm a born again metal fan, at least for smaller figures but I wince at some of the prices.

Can Reaper really sell that many $10 wizrds and $20 ogres while also selling them for $3, $5?

Also since the last Bones wave put many metal figures in plastic it might create an expectation that if you wait a year or two (which is not that long in the mini painting world) you'll get the same figure in Bonium.

Mini collectors may well wait,

but a GMs that need figures for pathfinder/D&D etc (and players needing a character that's 'just right) won't and that's where Reaper's biggest market is

If the stuff is in Bones that's what will sell (especially for those 20 goblins/skeletons etc), but if not they'll get the metal instead

and those who think the metals are too expensive would still have thought them too expensive before Bones, they'd just have picked up buckets of 'commons' D&D prepaints instead

Orlando, that's a great point. I think RPG gamers are pretty price insensitive if the miniature is what they want. How often do you buy a PC mini? A few times a year, tops!

it's a big market though, and I know I'd rather pay $20 for the exact model I picture than $6 for something close enough.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder, will Reaper's Bones end up killing their metal? I'm a born again metal fan, at least for smaller figures but I wince at some of the prices.

Can Reaper really sell that many $10 wizrds and $20 ogres while also selling them for $3, $5?

Also since the last Bones wave put many metal figures in plastic it might create an expectation that if you wait a year or two (which is not that long in the mini painting world) you'll get the same figure in Bonium.

As I understand it, the two major waves of Bones haven't reduced their metal sales at all (metal is actually up year over year - as well as the two KS and retail sales of Bones added into the mix). Even if the metal were down a bit - it wouldn't kill the metal as part of the business. Because of the way metals are structured versus plastics - you need to sell far fewer of them for a sculpt to be worthy of creating in metal versus plastic. Something like the armadillo figure from a few months back is a very niche figure. You might sell a few hundred a year tops. Most people won't need hordes of them. On the other hand, a few hundred metal figures at $3 a pop or so wholesale nets $900. Toss $450 to your sculptor, $150 for your packaging and materials, $75 for the molds and maybe another $75 for labor related costs (casting, packaging...). That ends up being a $150 profit before taxes for a post apocalyptic armadillo miniature on the year. The next year, that becomes $600 (sculptor is paid off).

Those niche figures are an important aspect of Reapers business. Even if you don't buy the armadillo - it sticks in your head. If someone comes along asking where they can get an odd ball miniature, Reaper is one of the first companies that comes up. Insidious ploy...

In any case, the calculus for getting a plastic miniature to be worth while is a good bit different. For low demand items, PCs and the like - it would be years before the molds actually start to make a profit. Granted, they don't need to be replaced (within the realm of low turnover miniatures...), but capital is tied up in those molds that prevent or slow down expansion. The first year, you might have $450 to the sculptor, $100 for packaging and materials, $10,000 for the mold and $25 for labor. Sell them at $450. So, you pay off the sculptor the first year - and loose $10125. For the next 30 years you are paying off the molds. After 30 years time, your profit would go up to $325 per year on the figure. You could be generous and assume that 4 times as many people will buy the figures at the lower price point...just because who doesn't want an armadillo figure... That still puts the first 7-8 years of sales in paying off the mold.

(Calculations are rough and ugly - they will not withstand an audit, but are more or less based on actual costs)

The Bones material is more useful for mobs, large monsters and the like. Mobs, because very few people buy just one kobold. Normally, you are looking to pick up 2 or 3 dozen at a time. As a result, as opposed to selling 300 a year, they sell 11,000. The mold is paid off the first year and starts making a profit the next year. Similar issues exist for the very large figures - though for different reasons. They still may not sell a large number of something like their dragon figures, but at the lower price point versus metal - they might sell that 4 times as many figure. Because the cost to manufacture the large figure doesn't strictly correlate to the size in plastic - the relative cost to metal means that they don't need to sell 11,000 of them...they may only need to sell 2,000 to break even (other related factors like reduced shipping costs to retail and wholesale customers start to add up quickly when comparing a pallet of metal dragons versus a couple of UPS boxes of Bones dragons...).

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Mini collectors may well wait,

but a GMs that need figures for pathfinder/D&D etc (and players needing a character that's 'just right) won't and that's where Reaper's biggest market is

If the stuff is in Bones that's what will sell (especially for those 20 goblins/skeletons etc), but if not they'll get the metal instead

and those who think the metals are too expensive would still have thought them too expensive before Bones, they'd just have picked up buckets of 'commons' D&D prepaints instead

And this too. Though I would probably reverse it to some extent. Most mini collectors will buy the metal figures. Most GMs will end up being more price conscious and look for the Bones figures. If they can't get a shadow dragon in Bones (which I think a shadow dragon made it to Bones...but I am having a bit of a hard time thinking of a good example), they will likely use a Green Dragon and just tell everyone at the table it is a shadow dragon. Provided it is roughly the right size and shape - it is good enough in many cases. I know I have fought off more than a few hordes of dried beans over the years...

The mini collectors, buying fewer miniatures and generally using them for display will still appreciate the crisper details and large variety of the metal line. A diorama might need 4 or 5 orcs and two or three hero figures (whereas a single encounter might need 3 times that for the gaming side of things). They both end up spending the same amount of money, just a different balance of quality versus quantity.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:


As I understand it, the two major waves of Bones haven't reduced their metal sales at all (metal is actually up year over year - as well as the two KS and retail sales of Bones added into the mix). Even if the metal were down a bit - it wouldn't kill the metal as part of the business. Because of the way metals are structured versus plastics - you need to sell far fewer of them for a sculpt to be worthy of creating in metal versus plastic. Something like the armadillo figure from a few months back is a very niche figure. You might sell a few hundred a year tops. Most people won't need hordes of them. On the other hand, a few hundred metal figures at $3 a pop or so wholesale nets $900. Toss $450 to your sculptor, $150 for your packaging and materials, $75 for the molds and maybe another $75 for labor related costs (casting, packaging...). That ends up being a $150 profit before taxes for a post apocalyptic armadillo miniature on the year. The next year, that becomes $600 (sculptor is paid off).

Those niche figures are an important aspect of Reapers business. Even if you don't buy the armadillo - it sticks in your head. If someone comes along asking where they can get an odd ball miniature, Reaper is one of the first companies that comes up. Insidious ploy...

In any case, the calculus for getting a plastic miniature to be worth while is a good bit different. For low demand items, PCs and the like - it would be years before the molds actually start to make a profit. Granted, they don't need to be replaced (within the realm of low turnover miniatures...), but capital is tied up in those molds that prevent or slow down expansion. The first year, you might have $450 to the sculptor, $100 for packaging and materials, $10,000 for the mold and $25 for labor. Sell them at $450. So, you pay off the sculptor the first year - and loose $10125. For the next 30 years you are paying off the molds. After 30 years time, your profit would go up to $325 per year on the figure. You could be generous and assume that 4 times as many people will buy the figures at the lower price point...just because who doesn't want an armadillo figure... That still puts the first 7-8 years of sales in paying off the mold.

(Calculations are rough and ugly - they will not withstand an audit, but are more or less based on actual costs)

The Bones material is more useful for mobs, large monsters and the like. Mobs, because very few people buy just one kobold. Normally, you are looking to pick up 2 or 3 dozen at a time. As a result, as opposed to selling 300 a year, they sell 11,000. The mold is paid off the first year and starts making a profit the next year. Similar issues exist for the very large figures - though for different reasons. They still may not sell a large number of something like their dragon figures, but at the lower price point versus metal - they might sell that 4 times as many figure. Because the cost to manufacture the large figure doesn't strictly correlate to the size in plastic - the relative cost to metal means that they don't need to sell 11,000 of them...they may only need to sell 2,000 to break even (other related factors like reduced shipping costs to retail and wholesale customers start to add up quickly when comparing a pallet of metal dragons versus a couple of UPS boxes of Bones dragons...).

Thanks again, I get the basic economics of plastic vs metal.

So doing Orcs and Dragons (hoards and biggies) makes total sense.

What I don't get is why they're doing so many niche characters and monsters in bones.

Sure they'll sell plenty of generic crossbow guy



and shipping crate



but Caryatid Columns? I mean talk about a deep cut from the Fiend Folio...



But hey there's the one with millions of Kickstarter dollars and I'm happy to make $20 from selling on ebay so they must know something...

If nothing else, those statue girls will make nice pieces of scenery.

And Caryatids usually come in multiples to support something else:


It does make sense to do them in Bones.

Also, Paizo's got a major hard-on for the things in their adventures, both Society and APs. You'll see them a lot in official Pathfinder stuff.

 heartserenade wrote:
And Caryatids usually come in multiples to support something else:

Spoiler:

It does make sense to do them in Bones.

I've pictured them in Bones with two shipping containers (above and below), and it took me several minutes to re-compose myself. A highly entertaining, if slightly disturbing project that would be!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

but Caryatid Columns? I mean talk about a deep cut from the Fiend Folio...



But hey there's the one with millions of Kickstarter dollars and I'm happy to make $20 from selling on ebay so they must know something...

Bit of all of the above. When they are monsters - they generally come in more than one at a time. When they are statues, they generally come in more than one at a time. Not necessarily goblin or orc levels - but more than a few. I already have a couple of ideas which will involve a few dozen of the static ones though. Also, remember that those end up being a fun miniature to use even if your not intending to use them as golems (especially if you have used the golems before). As a DM, you reveal a room which is lined on both sides with statues...sets up the paranoia in the players...

I believe that Bones I involved conversion of their highest selling metals in the 'human sized' range, although the larger stuff was a big more eclectic

so they had solid sales data that they were minis that a lot of people wanted (or some people that wanted a lot of)

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

but Caryatid Columns? I mean talk about a deep cut from the Fiend Folio...

But hey there's the one with millions of Kickstarter dollars and I'm happy to make $20 from selling on ebay so they must know something...

Bit of all of the above. When they are monsters - they generally come in more than one at a time. When they are statues, they generally come in more than one at a time. Not necessarily goblin or orc levels - but more than a few. I already have a couple of ideas which will involve a few dozen of the static ones though. Also, remember that those end up being a fun miniature to use even if your not intending to use them as golems (especially if you have used the golems before). As a DM, you reveal a room which is lined on both sides with statues...sets up the paranoia in the players...

Yeah, I mean, what is the two pack going to sell for? $6? $8? You can buy a row of six of them for under $50, paint them in an evening, and now you've got cool scenery, a great red herring, options for cool scenarios, and even, in a pinch, six perfectly servicable female warriors.

I stand corrected, I never should have bad mouthed the columns...

Heck now I want some.

Until midnight, 1/31, Miinatures Market has the Dark Heaven Legends: Brood Dragon
Regular Price: $59.99
SPECIAL PRICE: $25.00