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They have 2 claws.

They have three attacks on their profile, and an extra attack because they have 2 claws.

You get an additional attack if you have two close combat weapons.
And you get an attack when you charge.

In the old Codex a Flayed One would deal 1 wound against T4.
Now that same Flayed One will deal 1.875 wound against the same T4 at AP5.
They deal nearly two times the amount of damage but they stayed the same price.

I find it funny that GW seemingly went out of their way to avoid mentioning Forgeworld's Maynarkh dyansty at all. They've incorporated references to Forgeworld's stuff in all the previous books; Vraks, Mymeara, Death Korps/Elysians, pretty much all their stuff at least gets a timeline mention.

For the 'Crons, not a word. In fact, the Mephrit dynasty uses a very similar colour scheme and is of a similar fluff niche "favoured executioners of the Silent King, distrusted by other dynasties."

Can't have little Timmy realize there's stuff he can't buy from the GW website or local GW.

Rulewise, the book worries me somewhat. It's got great internal balance, excellent formation bonuses and a good mix of melee, ranged and durable units where most 7th edition books have been very 1-dimensional and have awful internal balance, but alright external balance. The Necron codex looks like it can do just about anything, and most of their units, especially with the formation buffs are not just generalists, but better than any other "generalist" out there, with good specialists as well. They've now got the most durable and flexible troops in the game when in a Decurion, good shooty jetbikes, excellent anti-horde fire support, super-cost effective melee blockers (Lychguard with sword and board are 15 points less than TH/SS termies with one less armour save, higher toughness, reanimation, extra wound, higher effective initiative but are "only" St5 Ap3) and so on and so forth.

The only bad things in there are C'tan being too random to use in any way effectively and scarabs are thuroughly mediocre.

When many armies struggle to field a legal CAD without "tax" units which are otherwise useless or horribly cost-ineffecient, I suspect Necrons will be right up there with Eldar/Daemons/Tau in power; not as reliant on cheesy broken combinations as Daemons/Eldar, but more by just being better and more cost effective at most things. They certainly aren't a deathstar codex (thank god, I find deathstars incredibly tiresome to play so consistently against) but that might actually make them better; deathstars usually have weaknesses which can be exploited, a straight up powerful codex, like the Eldar, will allow people to win against some armies by codex choice alone.

Does anybody know if Trazyn and Illuminor Szeras got buffed or nerfed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
super-cost effective melee blockers (Lychguard with sword and board are 15 points less than TH/SS termies with one less armour save, higher toughness, reanimation, extra wound, higher effective initiative but are "only" St5 Ap3) and so on and so forth.

Arent Lychguard 1 wound?

Illuminor is roughly the same price and Eldritch Lance is better.
I still think he brings too little and costs too much.

Trazyn I am not sure on.
+A lot cheaper
+Stronger attacks
+/-Hits all models within 6" of the faction when he kills.
-His ability only works in a challenge when you slay the character.
-He can only replace non-Unique characters when he dies.

I would say he is buffed and for this reason: In the old Codex I would not take him, now I would actually think about it for a second.

 BlackArmour wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Gotta be a 100% honest here - When I hear that a codex is almost univeraslly good from most people, I fear that the codex in question is too powerful, whereas, when the community is either lukewarm or simply disliking a new book, I believe it must be a great book, because many people are angry that their usual, powerful cheese-lists are invalidated. Call me a cynic and I wouldn't stop you.

I guess we'll see. Games weren't won on Sempiternal Weave alone.

This is generally true.....

The fact that you're getting a ton of smiles from Necron players should in fact worry everyone.

I'm thinking this book just broke the 7th edition "balance" trend and is the first in 7th with some codex creep ( Yes even with the nerfs).

guess we will see what the next codex brings.

I was not happy to learn that Wraiths gained 1T and kept their 3++ without a larger point increase. They were too hard to kill already and now are even more of a hassle. There was one thing I wanted with this codex and we got the opposite. Something that moves that fast with that many attacks should not be that hard to kill.

At least the first Waaaagh! with my new army (green tide) took out 4 of them on the charge . Although I had to bring 38 choppa boys and two Nobz to do that...

ImAGeek wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Not broken, "Invisibility" and resultant invisible Imperial Knights and Centstars are broken.

Nothing Necron will be Invisible.

Invisibility isn't the one sole broken thing in the game. Things can be broken without it.

Of course. I was providing an example of broken in response to an earlier post. You took my post out of context.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
They certainly aren't a deathstar codex (thank god, I find deathstars incredibly tiresome to play so consistently against) but that might actually make them better; deathstars usually have weaknesses which can be exploited, a straight up powerful codex, like the Eldar, will allow people to win against some armies by codex choice alone.

Is there a weakness to Wraithstar? Aside from no ObjSec since they can probably kill any troop off an objective easily.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Does anybody know if Trazyn and Illuminor Szeras got buffed or nerfed?

Trazyn is cheaper, but absolute garbage.

His weapon is still worthless, and it's all he has. He no longer has MSS (old or new), nor any replacement to make him useful against MCs or in challenges. Nor does he have any scoring ability, any replacement ability or any buffs for his squad.

Furthermore, his revival ability can no longer target Lychguard, and was made even worse with the loss of cheap crypteks and lords.

So, what we end up with is a useless sack of crap who can revive himself by killing off your other, more useful characters. It would be like if IG players could revive Nork Deddog by shelling their own units with a Manticore barrage.

Also, with the removal of 'Another piece for the collection', Trazyn now has no reason to ever join battle.

lustigjh wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
They certainly aren't a deathstar codex (thank god, I find deathstars incredibly tiresome to play so consistently against) but that might actually make them better; deathstars usually have weaknesses which can be exploited, a straight up powerful codex, like the Eldar, will allow people to win against some armies by codex choice alone.

Is there a weakness to Wraithstar? Aside from no ObjSec since they can probably kill any troop off an objective easily.

Indeed, Wraithstar is very strong even if not taken in a decursion detachment.

lustigjh wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
They certainly aren't a deathstar codex (thank god, I find deathstars incredibly tiresome to play so consistently against) but that might actually make them better; deathstars usually have weaknesses which can be exploited, a straight up powerful codex, like the Eldar, will allow people to win against some armies by codex choice alone.

Is there a weakness to Wraithstar? Aside from no ObjSec since they can probably kill any troop off an objective easily.

No psychic support.

No IC support without jumping through hoops in the movement and assault phase.

Formation requires being within 12" of the Spyder which more or less removes the possibility of running with Wraiths (who have fleet so that's a much larger slow down then most people give it credit for).

Can't do gak to flyers.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
They certainly aren't a deathstar codex (thank god, I find deathstars incredibly tiresome to play so consistently against) but that might actually make them better; deathstars usually have weaknesses which can be exploited, a straight up powerful codex, like the Eldar, will allow people to win against some armies by codex choice alone.

Is there a weakness to Wraithstar? Aside from no ObjSec since they can probably kill any troop off an objective easily.

No psychic support.

No IC support without jumping through hoops in the movement and assault phase.

Formation requires being within 12" of the Spyder which more or less removes the possibility of running with Wraiths (who have fleet so that's a much larger slow down then most people give it credit for).

Can't do gak to flyers.

Indeed,

I didn't imply that the weaknesses in deathstars are easily exploited; invisible centstar relies on throwing a billion deny dice and hitting them with St10 Ap2 large blasts, Seer Councils require catching them in melee, etc, but there are usually some weaknesses of some kind to a deathstar, especially as they usually take a king's ransom in points.

A flat-out overpowered codex like Eldar has the issue of everything simply being better than yours, which doesn't leave angles to exploit, which is a risk I can see with Necrons (though by no means to the same extent).

Kangodo wrote:
I do not see it as a nerf.
They went from lowering AV to auto-glancing on a 6.

Its actually a pretty big nerf.

Say 5 scarabs assault a land raider

Before they would cause 18 hits, knock of 9 armour value points and do 3 glances and 12 pens. Now they get 18 hits and cause 3 hull points, but cost 25pts more. The points to damage ratios are much higher now. Still works just not auto win.

Yeah, I forgot that they lowered AV on a 4+ and not on a 6+

nerfs are only nerfs if they arent still good. they are still good

 Jancoran wrote:
nerfs are only nerfs if they arent still good. they are still good

Not really. A nerf is just if something is reduced from its former power. It's effectiveness is irrelevant.

Kangodo wrote:
Illuminor is roughly the same price and Eldritch Lance is better.
I still think he brings too little and costs too much.

Trazyn I am not sure on.
+A lot cheaper
+Stronger attacks
+/-Hits all models within 6" of the faction when he kills.
-His ability only works in a challenge when you slay the character.
-He can only replace non-Unique characters when he dies.

I would say he is buffed and for this reason: In the old Codex I would not take him, now I would actually think about it for a second.

Illuminor looks really good to me. He is basically an extremely powerful Cryptek with a nice gun and a cool buffing ability. I can definitely see myself using him.

Trazyn looks like he's overpriced by about 30 points, and is really niche. Against Orks he is golden, as he can kill a Nob in a challenge and then explode the rest of the unit. Same goes if he's against guardsmen. His biggest problem is an AP4 weapon, so he lacks effectiveness killing MEQ. He also lacks flavor, now I'm curious what, "another piece for the collection" used to do. I'd say he's good against any army of primarily 4+ saves (on characters), but is lacking against everything else. He's only really useable if you know who you're playing beforehand. Also, his Surrogate Host rule is really ineffective as you are essentially paying 50 more points for Trazyn if you take a Lord as a backup for him.

 Jancoran wrote:
nerfs are only nerfs if they arent still good. they are still good

Current rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 20 hit (67% hit), 3 Glance (16%)
Old rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 20 hit (67% hit), 10 Glance (50%)

They are are 33% more expensive and only 33% as effective as they were against armor.

Scarabs are no longer completely useless against monster creatures, but only barely. They only inflict wounds on MCs, as often as they glance now, with AP -, so MCs get thier full saves.

Scarabs were cheap, excellent tar pits, who were amazing amazing against armor.
Scarabs are now mediocre for their points, good tar pits, who rely on rolling 6's to damage to be usefull.

In the Canoptek Formation fielded in a Decurion, they are much better, but it's a pretty significant amount of points to get a singe swarm of scarabs back to being scary.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Illuminor looks really good to me. He is basically an extremely powerful Cryptek with a nice gun and a cool buffing ability. I can definitely see myself using him.

My issue with Illuminor is that he comes with a mandatory - arguably worse - Technomancy.
I am probably going to field a Decurion, that means I am paying 30 or so points for an ability that I don't want.
Which is btw my biggest issue with Crypteks!
They give a buff (nice) which I already get from the Detachment (okay..) and it doesn't stack (crap).

A Cryptek with an Eldritch Lance used to be 35 point.
You are now paying 75 points more for the random buff and Technomancy.

Illuminor was bad and he is probably the only special character that hasn't been buffed.

Trazyn looks like he's overpriced by about 30 points, and is really niche. Against Orks he is golden, as he can kill a Nob in a challenge and then explode the rest of the unit. Same goes if he's against guardsmen. His biggest problem is an AP4 weapon, so he lacks effectiveness killing MEQ. He also lacks flavor, now I'm curious what, "another piece for the collection" used to do. I'd say he's good against any army of primarily 4+ saves (on characters), but is lacking against everything else. He's only really useable if you know who you're playing beforehand. Also, his Surrogate Host rule is really ineffective as you are essentially paying 50 more points for Trazyn if you take a Lord as a backup for him.

I agree, but he was always useless like that.
"Another piece" made him and his unit Scoring.
Yes, his replacement sucks now.
Do you believe he used to be 175 points?

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

Trazyn looks like he's overpriced by about 30 points, and is really niche. Against Orks he is golden, as he can kill a Nob in a challenge and then explode the rest of the unit. Same goes if he's against guardsmen.

But, why would either of those accept his challenge?

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
He also lacks flavor, now I'm curious what, "another piece for the collection" used to do.

It used to make him scoring.

Fluffwise, it represented the fact that he only ever does battle because he's looking for some artefact or other. Without that rule (and hence that fluff), there's no reason why he would ever engage in battle - let alone lead any sort of army.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Also, his Surrogate Host rule is really ineffective as you are essentially paying 50 more points for Trazyn if you take a Lord as a backup for him.

Yep.

Though, even without that tax, I struggle to see what we're supposedly paying for. His weapon is awful, Surrogate Hosts is basically an additional tax anyway... and that's it. He doesn't have anything else and he doesn't do anything else.

Looking through my codex, noticed it says OL and Lords can take weapons from the Ranged and Melee weapons. All of the weapons are listed here (no distinction between Vehicle Weapons and troop weapons and vehicle equipment only lists eternity gate and quantum shielding) you could, technically, give them things like the Transdimensional Beamer; any gauss/tesla/particle weapons; Flayer claws; whip coils (which would be a sweet combo for a flayer lord).

Not that I would ever take anything over a warsythe or variant thereof, just found it interesting there's nothing keeping you from putting a Gauss Flayer Array on your OL.

Also first post cause why not

 vipoid wrote:
But, why would either of those accept his challenge?

Because in this pace in a year every single character must always issue and accept challenges.

The focus on challenges in this Codex is ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BomBomHotdog wrote:
Looking through my codex, noticed it says OL and Lords can take weapons from the Ranged and Melee weapons. All of the weapons are listed here (no distinction between Vehicle Weapons and troop weapons and vehicle equipment only lists eternity gate and quantum shielding) you could, technically, give them things like the Transdimensional Beamer; any gauss/tesla/particle weapons; Flayer claws; whip coils (which would be a sweet combo for a flayer lord).

Not that I would ever take anything over a warsythe or variant thereof, just found it interesting there's nothing keeping you from putting a Gauss Flayer Array on your OL.

Also first post cause why not

No, on the page before the Overlord it has a list that tells you which is what.

Trazyn lost his rule because EVERYTHING is scoring. Though I'm surprised they didn't give him Objective Secured to replace it.

Kangodo wrote:

No, on the page before the Overlord it has a list that tells you which is what.

Ha dont know how I missed that. Really should be been placed right before the actual equipment lists and after the unit profiles.

silly wonky 7th ed layouts

BomBomHotdog wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

No, on the page before the Overlord it has a list that tells you which is what.

Ha dont know how I missed that. Really should be been placed right before the actual equipment lists and after the unit profiles.

silly wonky 7th ed layouts

7th Edition? Welcome to 3rd Edition son.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Trazyn lost his rule because EVERYTHING is scoring. Though I'm surprised they didn't give him Objective Secured to replace it.

That's what I meant.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

7th Edition? Welcome to 3rd Edition son.

Flayed Ones may not of gotten back their awesome "take a LD check, if you fail you don't get to attack this turn" but at least they got 2 close combat weapons with shred

Also nice to see that Nightbringer and Deceiver got their own profiles and special rules again

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

7th Edition? Welcome to 3rd Edition son.

Flayed Ones may not of gotten back their awesome "take a LD check, if you fail you don't get to attack this turn" but at least they got 2 close combat weapons with shred

Also nice to see that Nightbringer and Deceiver got their own profiles and special rules again

I was referencing the wargear list thing actually.

Just a quick question that I haven't seen brought up. Wraith's with whipcoils. 3 point upgrade as appossed to 10? Feels like Wraiths really need to take them. Makes them I5 which is striking before most things that they will be attacking anyway. Now, do you feel this is improved? Before was 45 Points a coil wraith and is now 43 with an extra toughness and potential RP. What do you guys think?