Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Starters for Infinity are around $50, depending on faction (the two newest ones seem a bit more expensive, but are also for combined army which tends to have physically larger troops). That will probably be enough for a 100-150 point decent intro game. Expect to pay around $15 per model after for anything but the big bots, with the starter having 5-6 models and most armies aiming for an 8-15 model count on the table, depending on how you set them up and faction. Alternatively, Operation Icestorm is around $100, with a set of quickstart rules/scenarios to ease you into it, and some cardstock terrian, plus a Nomads and Pan-O starter.

Another good point of Infinity is that the rules are free to download from their website. They have an online army builder as well which is pretty useful (although note this is still for the 2nd edition rules, it's currently being updated for 3rd edition which has recently been released).

We have a pretty active Infinity community here on Dakka now which might be useful to you
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/59.page
New players handy links: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/440048.page

Operation Icestorm is a pretty good starting point though as Vejut says, especially if you want to buy in with a friend and then split the cost.

However, keep in mind the rules are incomplete right now as they have not updated the rules from the 2nd and 3rd books fully to the new format. The older pdfs are still available, but are garbage translations.

There is a lot of stuff you would likely use from this incomplete content, so just be prepared for a bit of a wait.

 frozenwastes wrote:


Warmachine isn't just not suitable for the original poster because it's not sci-fi, it's also more rules intensive and more likely be more overwhelming than 40k. I agree with Eilif that Infinity is probably also not a good fit for the same reasons.

Wait...huh? Last time I checked, Infinity was sci-fi and I don't think the rules are more intensive that 40k at all. In fact, they're much easier to understand and flow much better on the table. (No constant checking on rules that should be clear.)

 MWHistorian wrote:

Wait...huh? Last time I checked, Infinity was sci-fi and I don't think the rules are more intensive that 40k at all. In fact, they're much easier to understand and flow much better on the table. (No constant checking on rules that should be clear.)

I agree on that account, but I'm talking more about the number of game decisions and use of mechanics per model over time. It's a far more precise game where mistakes or misunderstandings of interactions can be punished severely. Malifaux is also like that. If someone were to say they felt overwhelmed by 40k, I'd probably not recommend Warmachine, Infinity, or Malifaux. There's just more meat to digest with those games compared to the relatively shallow rules of 40k.

Having given demos for a load of different games, Infinity actually doesn't come out that badly, especially if you stick to the starter set rules and basic mechanics.

Because there is that much less abstraction, it's pretty easy for someone with no wargaming experience, but who is almost certainly seen action movies or played FPS games, to relate to what is happening to the miniature on the table. "My guy is getting shot at, I want to duck behind the wall" "My sniper is going to wait for the medic to get to the wounded guy before he shoots again". The rules have another depth that they allow this kind of individual action, as long as the person giving the demo can describe what is happening in narrative terms. As for the face-to-face rolls, quite often held up as a stumbling block, I simply describe that as 'Blackjack/Pontoon, get as close to your level as you can without going bust' and people pick it up instantly.

Infinity has a tremendous amount of tactical depth and also complexity, but for the most part it's intuitive. And, like learning anything, you just have to walk before you can run and follow the recommended path of starter set rules before you start introducing the likes of camo and hacking.

Kill team using earlier editions of 40K (to limit or remove the USR's which is great way to confuse non-hardcore gamers) is still a great way to game.

In my home games, I plan on using the lists from HoR as a guide for force composition (I really like the Leader/Core/Special idea to limit the more powerful troops in a force), but using the rules and appropriate army entries/stats from 4th edition 40K and the appropriate codex books. So for instance: goodbye Centurions, hello Space Wolves 13th Company and actual honest Wulfen models.

Since when is 40k sci-fi?

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
Since when is 40k sci-fi?

Since 'sci-fi' meant 'ships and laser guns'. It turns out the difference between sci-fi and fantasy is bizzare and hard to define when stuff gets into the overlap

Yeah, and frankly, don't bother getting into that argument about genre, it's tired and old, and no one bothers with any in depth classifications in conversation anyway, even the people who get butt hurt about it.

You could go another way and see if she would be interested in some board games like Settlers of Catan or Secret Mission Risk. Playable in 1-2 hours, simple rules, and everything you need is in the box.

 Cleatus wrote:
You could go another way and see if she would be interested in some board games like Settlers of Catan or Secret Mission Risk. Playable in 1-2 hours, simple rules, and everything you need is in the box.

If going that route, you can try many other awesome games.

Such as:
Talisman
Decent
Super Dungeon Explore!
Risk Legacy



I am actually just getting into Super Dungeon Explore!. It's sort of a cross of a video game with model making/collecting. With 'expansion' packs that give random bad guys and Heroes you can paint a build.
Games can take less then an hour if you play a small dungeon.

Decent (1st Edition) - Is a token heavy, D&D Light, Dungeon delving game. Quite a lot of fun in my opinion. I haven't played 2nd Ed. but I am eying the conversion kit. (and I hear rumors of a 3rd ed. coming soon?)

Risk legacy is also another fun game if you like Risk. It combines the "achievements" idea into the game, where things change and new things appear. It can be a little rules wonky, as new things are introduced, but if you have a good gaming group, it can be a lot of fun.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
Since when is 40k sci-fi?

Since 'sci-fi' meant 'ships and laser guns'. It turns out the difference between sci-fi and fantasy is bizzare and hard to define when stuff gets into the overlap

If it helps, I use the term Sci-Fantasy for things like 40k and other settings where magic and close combat happen often in the future.

I'm not picky though and I don't see any value in correcting folks when they use the term Sci-fi for anything that happens to have lasers.

Mantic's Warpath is similar in style to 40K, but a much cleaner, streamlined system (and was designed by 40K 5E's Alessio Cavatore).

40K factions map onto Warpath factions decently, though some flash back to early 40K and others cross over from WHFB - Corporation (IoM as bad guys), Enforcers (Space Marines), Marauders (Orks), Forge Fathers (Squats), and Veer-myn (Skaven), with as-yet-unstated Rebs (read like Human Tau), Z'zor (Tyrannids), and Asterians (Eldar).

Best: the rules are free on the Mantic site.

Much of what people think of as "Hard" Sci-Fi really isn't.

Traveller, once seen as the hardest of Sci-Fi settings turns out to have much that is fantasy.

Space Combat, and even Land Combat with weapons such as Lasers, or Plasma/Fusion weapons turn out to not change combat that much.

And for Space Combat, it turns out that it will need to occur at ranges pretty much typical for regular land and naval combat (a few miles, to 100 miles for larger tactical weapons such as cruise missiles.

There are some (Ad Astra) who have begun to suss out the various aspects of Space Combat (such that unaided, it is very hard to hide in space, and requiring dedicated technologies that would occupy more space and energy than the actual weapons.

Turns out that Ron Moore, for the new BSG pretty much got things correct, and that Space Combat would mostly entail large massively armored ships (with 20m - 100m of belt armor) throwing large yield weapons at each other at ranges of between 5 and 20 miles, or 10 - 50 km (if you look at the combat scenes, given the scales of the ships - approximately 2km long - you can then freeze the frame and measure the ranges, as well as the velocity of the projectiles traveling between the ships).

Anyway... Be nice to see some large model ships that could be used to model this kind of space combat.

BeAfraid wrote:

Turns out that Ron Moore, for the new BSG pretty much got things correct, and that Space Combat would mostly entail large massively armored ships (with 20m - 100m of belt armor) throwing large yield weapons at each other at ranges of between 5 and 20 miles, or 10 - 50 km (if you look at the combat scenes, given the scales of the ships - approximately 2km long - you can then freeze the frame and measure the ranges, as well as the velocity of the projectiles traveling between the ships).

I'm not totally convinced. I think the Honor Harrington style of space combat is probably one of the most realistic we've seen. Still lots of armor, but hundreds of miles apart, lots of missiles and Anti-Missile systems. Of course you couldn't pay me to to play Sanganami Combat Simulator, I'd much rather play BSG or Full Thrust or some softer version of space combat.

 Eilif wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

Turns out that Ron Moore, for the new BSG pretty much got things correct, and that Space Combat would mostly entail large massively armored ships (with 20m - 100m of belt armor) throwing large yield weapons at each other at ranges of between 5 and 20 miles, or 10 - 50 km (if you look at the combat scenes, given the scales of the ships - approximately 2km long - you can then freeze the frame and measure the ranges, as well as the velocity of the projectiles traveling between the ships).

I'm not totally convinced. I think the Honor Harrington style of space combat is probably one of the most realistic we've seen. Still lots of armor, but hundreds of miles apart, lots of missiles and Anti-Missile systems. Of course you couldn't pay me to to play Sanganami Combat Simulator, I'd much rather play BSG or Full Thrust or some softer version of space combat.

There's a website, Atomic Rockets http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewarintro.php that goes into space combat in the most 'realist' way. (aka. the most probable.) It's a fantastic site full of all kinds of information about space travel and ship design.

I highly recommend Infinity. Great game. Somewhat similar to 40k imo and fun to play.

You might want to play Dead zone (I only played a few games, but it seems to be quite fun)

Thought I'd ask here instead of posting a new thread.

What would you dudes recommend for someone who:
Likes 40k (models and fluff)
Doesn't mind throwing buckets of dice
Hates tonka truck/ tank battles (that aren't 15mm and smaller scale)
Doesn't like each model having its own rules (a la Kill team)
Essentially squad based skirmishes with minimal to no vehicles.

Would low points 40k games work okay? I'm...uhh, asking for a friend. I still haven't tested BtGoA.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Err uh my FRIEND hasn't...

just play at lower points... 700-1500 is great for small games.

You could try using rules for another system; Warpath, Gates of Antares, or even Tomorrow's War if you want 'realistic' style of rules. You can get rules for the first two for free so easy to try, and TW isn't expensive.

You could also use the 2nd edition 40k rules!