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I emailed them twice last week once through PayPal and regular email. Did not get a reply,not that I was expecting one from what other people have said. I looked at their Facebook page a laughed you can tell they never check it. The comments on it are all negative. I have till May to request my money back through PayPal so it's just a waiting game untill then

 Chute82 wrote:
I emailed them twice last week once through PayPal and regular email. Did not get a reply,not that I was expecting one from what other people have said. I looked at their Facebook page a laughed you can tell they never check it. The comments on it are all negative. I have till May to request my money back through PayPal so it's just a waiting game untill then

The funny part of it is James Hubbs is still sharing stuff on his science fiction author page and just ignoring his Zuzzy customers. It's the reason why I created the "James Hubbs aka Zuzzy Miniatures are a scam" Facebook page so future editors or publishing houses can get an insight as to the kind of person they may be dealing with. Good luck with your situation at least you are in paypals window of protection. The only thing you can probably expect is James will ignore PayPal and it will go the distance through the resolution process however long that is now.

James Hubbs aka Zuzzy Miniatures are a scam
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=913523275348434&tsid=0.9585783390793949&source=typeahead

 kronk wrote:
A few years ago, I considered a Zuzzy Mat for my gaming table. I looked here and elsewhere and saw the horrible delays and lead times for people to get their stuff. So, I didn't buy anything from them. It appears as though it isn't getting any better, which is a shame. I understand from people that have them that the mats are excellent. However, their poor customer service and horrendous wait for product is a non-starter for me to ever consider them.

At least I have my Secret Weapon Miniatures Tablescapes. Can't wait to prime the darn things. It will eventually be warm here. And dry.

Off topic:


Prime in Gesso! Never worry about humidity, weather, or have to deal with outside spraying ever again. Non-toxic, no smell. Stuff is awesome. A nine dollar Bob Ross brand i bought probably 4 years ago still has half the bottle, and if its primed one miniature its primed 2000, and some terrain pieces to boot. It contracts as it dries so if you can still see detail as you prime, you're perfectly fine. Put too much on ? about an hour in hot water and a soft bristle toothbrush, and it'll come right off.

Seriously i'm not sure why anyone primes in spray primer anymore. Gesso is freakin' amazing.

As an update I received word from the better business bureau and this is an excerpt from their email.

"We regret to inform you that the company has not responded to your complaint. If we do receive a response in the future, a copy will be sent to you. You may wish to seek the advice of an attorney, or file a claim in Small Claims Court."

Not surprising really but another example of the non engagement policy of James Hubbs and Zuzzy Miniatures.

On a more positive note I have had a number of folks stop by the facebook community "Author James Hubbs aka Zuzzy Miniatures are a scam" and like and comment. Appreciate the support

 Haight wrote:

 kronk wrote:
A few years ago, I considered a Zuzzy Mat for my gaming table. I looked here and elsewhere and saw the horrible delays and lead times for people to get their stuff. So, I didn't buy anything from them. It appears as though it isn't getting any better, which is a shame. I understand from people that have them that the mats are excellent. However, their poor customer service and horrendous wait for product is a non-starter for me to ever consider them.

At least I have my Secret Weapon Miniatures Tablescapes. Can't wait to prime the darn things. It will eventually be warm here. And dry.

Off topic:


Prime in Gesso! Never worry about humidity, weather, or have to deal with outside spraying ever again. Non-toxic, no smell. Stuff is awesome. A nine dollar Bob Ross brand i bought probably 4 years ago still has half the bottle, and if its primed one miniature its primed 2000, and some terrain pieces to boot. It contracts as it dries so if you can still see detail as you prime, you're perfectly fine. Put too much on ? about an hour in hot water and a soft bristle toothbrush, and it'll come right off.

Seriously i'm not sure why anyone primes in spray primer anymore. Gesso is freakin' amazing.

I don't like Gesso. It's not nearly as smooth as the ones I spray prime. (Sorry for the off-topic).

This should be straight forward:

Call Credit card company, request charge back for failure to deliver, get money back and spend at a games mat company that does deliver.

 notprop wrote:
This should be straight forward:

Call Credit card company, request charge back for failure to deliver, get money back and spend at a games mat company that does deliver.

If only it was that simple. The last part certainly is. But I mentioned earlier in the thread I used PayPal and Zuzzy in the best of circumstances ( even if they made their delivery times) were past the deadline for a PayPal dispute when I ordered. So no real avenues as far as the payment company protection etc

kronk wrote:I don't like Gesso. It's not nearly as smooth as the ones I spray prime. (Sorry for the off-topic).

I like gesso and use it regularly, but I agree. A truly fine primer like Tamiya will always outperform gesso. That said, I prefer gesso as it is often good enough for my "tapletop plus" standard (base colour, 2 shades, 2 highlights, some blacklining). If I was doing display work, I'd go for a high end spray, with an airbrush application of a good primer being the smoothest option.

It's a shame about Zuzzy generally failing as everyone who actually gets a mat from them seems to like it.

Never heard of using gesso to prime, interesting. Let's chat about it in the painting and modelling forum

I still have a half full bottle of GW Smelly Primer, it's like 17 years old, but it still works great when I need some brush on primer. I wish they'd bring it back, it really wasn't all that smelly.

Please move the talk about primers to its own thread, probably in one of the P&M subforums. Thanks

plot twist, he created an alternate account on dakka and is trying to defend himself in this thread through some sort of weird misguided justifications....

i almost bought one, googled a lot and read a couple bad reviews on here, ended up getting a fatmat

sorry that he took you for your money man (which to me, he definitely has)

Alt account? Where? I do not see any white knight posts in this thread.

 Cheebs wrote:
plot twist, he created an alternate account on dakka and is trying to defend himself in this thread through some sort of weird misguided justifications....

i almost bought one, googled a lot and read a couple bad reviews on here, ended up getting a fatmat

sorry that he took you for your money man (which to me, he definitely has)

Are you serious or joking sometimes it's hard to tell if you are serious I would be very surprised since James Hubbs has shown nothing but apathy towards his Zuzzy business since I have ordered from him. Thanks

Oh no I was totally joking, sort of but not really referring to the poster that was saying that: Its not theft or fraud to offer a service, take your money and then never deliver on said service. We could argue word choice all day, but it boils down to he has your money and you have nothing to show for it after 8 months. pretty clear cut to me.

side note: I seriously do want to see how to take this further to get peoples mats/money back.

So as an update I have called a phone number 1 (315) 636-4181 which is listed in some places as Zuzzy Miniatures phone contact. I did this over a couple of days and each time it automatically goes to a busy signal. So again not suprising as this is a company that doesn't want to be bothered with customers. There is at least one person on their forum who has been waiting s year now and I am now over 8 months.
In summary-
No phone
Doesn't respond to email
Doesn't participate in its own discussion forum
Doesn't respond to better business bureau complaints
Doesn't respond to contact via social media
(facebook)
Doesn't provide a refund
Oh and doesn't send you your purchased product
See a trend here?.......
Be very careful doing business with James Hubbs or with his company Zuzzy Miniatures they are a scam and as far as I am concerned he stole my money.

Can't someone else start making mats like these? If you can be reliable customers are ready.

Your calling the wrong number... Here is the correct info

http://start.cortera.com/company/research/k9n9sss0m/zuzzy-miniatures/

 Chute82 wrote:
Your calling the wrong number... Here is the correct info

http://start.cortera.com/company/research/k9n9sss0m/zuzzy-miniatures/

Thanks but that's the number I called just made a typo above same busy signal

As it turns out when I call from my cell and not my home phone I get an automated generic voicemail it must be because my home phone is a private line that it doesn't accept the call either way it's pretty useless it doesn't have a message saying its a business etc.

Not sure how situations like this work in Canada but doesn't contacting law enforcement do nothing?

You don't call the police.. It's a civil issue. Only way to get money is to take him to court via a lawsuit or bother him enough until he pays up.

Most likely you're just out of luck if he really isn't responding. It's a bit sad since I have 6 wonderful zuzzy mats

As other have said it is a civil matter police will not do a thing. The address is provided in info so maybe if you send them a written letter maybe you could get a response.

 Kirasu wrote:
You don't call the police.. It's a civil issue. Only way to get money is to take him to court via a lawsuit or bother him enough until he pays up.

Most likely you're just out of luck if he really isn't responding. It's a bit sad since I have 6 wonderful zuzzy mats

Not correct. He can get law enforcement involved. In the states at least its petty larceny, and it could potentially be fraud.

Please understand United States law and how fraud can be both a civil and criminal issue if you are going to make statements like this.

I am a former paralegal that specialized in criminal law.


If a business takes your money, it's still illegal and you can still go to jail for that / be prosecuted. Look at Bernie Madhoff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chute82 wrote:
As other have said it is a civil matter police will not do a thing. The address is provided in info so maybe if you send them a written letter maybe you could get a response.

Not Correct.

Fraud and Theft / Larceny are criminal matters. Fraud can also be a civil matter.

Agents of company's can and do got to jail for committing crimes. The business is protected, the individual is not, via incorporation.







For those who are interested : its literally one of the first three sentences : "fraud is both a civil and criminal wrong"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud



For those unwilling to read the link:

In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud and/or recover monetary compensation) and a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities). The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, such as obtaining a drivers license by way of false statements.[1]

Note that in many states unreasonable delivery times of promised goods constitutes Fraud. This is the case in NY state, which is where i'm pretty sure Zuzzy is located.



When these threads come up, people without actual real legal experience should not make grand sweeping generalizations. It doesn't help people, and i can actually hurt them by thinking they have no recourse, when that is NOT true.


-- Haight

Chittenango Police Department
1-315-687-3930
Give them a buzz

Support and condolences to OP.

That people with nothing better to do will defend this Zuzzy company's bad behavior is gross and I am embarrassed for them.

When BTP did crap work for Tenebre it was WWIII up in this forum. Now in this case it is a grey area for some because Zuzzy is *openly* shady with their business practices? Or is it because the OP only spent $185 rather than Tenebre's $2,0000,000,000,00.00.

Also wire/mail fraud may be involved depending on how the purchaser paid for his product. In the US that can bring about federal involvement like the Postal Inspector General.

Is there any update from someone who really got what he ordered?
I placed an order on the 5th of December last year and got/heard (like the OP) nothing ever since.
Maybe there are (more silent) people around who got their stuff?

Haight wrote:*snip long post*

All that is well and good but you also have to have a DA willing to prosecute the case. There's a threshold usually that has to be met before they will even consider it otherwise it's not worth the time and/or cost to prosecute it. Police can put a scare into the guy but if the DA won't take the case, that's about all it is.

 Goatmoerser wrote:
Is there any update from someone who really got what he ordered?
I placed an order on the 5th of December last year and got/heard (like the OP) nothing ever since.
Maybe there are (more silent) people around who got their stuff?

There are people who receive their product a couple of people posted in this thread and in the Zuzzy forum one person posted in Jan I believe that they got there product. There is at least one person who has been waiting for a year. Imo that is great but doesn't help the many people who don't get the mats.

12thRonin wrote:

Haight wrote:*snip long post*

All that is well and good but you also have to have a DA willing to prosecute the case. There's a threshold usually that has to be met before they will even consider it otherwise it's not worth the time and/or cost to prosecute it. Police can put a scare into the guy but if the DA won't take the case, that's about all it is.

I would not agree with this at all.

if the police arrest, and a grand jury turns an indictment, most DA's prosecute.


Honestly, i think what is more likely is the police stop by about the complaint, give him an ultimatum (hey, you've had x months. Your website says 6 weeks. Fill the guys order in 30 days or we're coming back to arrest for violations of the xyz criminal code) business fills complainants order first, complainant tells police all is good, then there is no arrest, police move on.


That is the more likely scenario.


If the police arrest, then a grand jury has to decide whether to indict or not (which is that they do not rule on facts of a case or render verdict at trial, they merely decide "has a crime been committed" based on a much lesser burden of proof), if they return an indictment, the DA is bound to pursue. He may not bring to trial, he may plea bargain, he may do other things. But it's really not up to a DA to pursue a case that has an indictment returned.

Now he could decide that there is not enough evidence to bring before a grand jury for an indictment, in which case that's a whole different story, but that's also "not choosing to prosecute". That's saying "hey, there's not enough evidence to add this to a grand jury's docket for indictment", which is to say there's basically no proof at all.

Because to quote the Honorable Sol Wachlter, you can indict a ham sandwhich if you want to.


(edit: minor bit of clarity for readers who might be legal-ese laymen).