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Well...

I sure won't ever order from them.

I've got a 'faulty' mat from them replaced before. For even more trivial reasons than OPs.


The back of the non-cloth mat was quite creased and they sent me a replacement mat. I have no idea why they wouldn't send OP a new one if the color difference is so obvious but I wouldn't mind doing business with them again.

Them being the only ones who will ship a mat over to where I am for less than 50USD shipping fee also helps

After seeing this thread, and DCS response to this thread, I have decided not to purchase from Deep Cut studios. Which is a pity, as one of their mats and some of their product would have been nice to purchase.

at the end of the day, it is the customer who essentially has the last word, and if you treat a customer badly, even if the situation has not been caused by you directly, it reflects on your business practices, your reputation, and of course your sales.

pretending something never happened, or that a situation will blow over is a very naive, and childish business view, especially in a closed market dealing with luxury items, like gaming. Deep cut studios need to make an effort to turn this positive, and it is obvious from what the OP is saying ,that they are trying to "blow over" this incident.

With that I think there is nothing more to say on the topic, so I shall lock the thread.

When the situation is resolved satisfactorily I hope the OP and the supplier will come back to inform DakkaDakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have re-opened the thread for some news to be posted.

heya guys. Thank you for all your feedback. Id like to state that after further discussions with DCS they have agreed to pay for the return postage once the mat has arrived to them. Which I think is fair.

Below is their reply to my further email suggesting we resolve this matter properly.

Hi, Lee,

Sure, why not

Please use Royal Mail tracked delivery and let me know how much did it cost you. We will refund you for your purchase via PayPal case, and make an additional separate PayPal transfer to cover your costs.

The outcome of this whole mess should also be known in your public posts as well. Because a stick always has two ends

Cheers,

Gediminas, dcs

I'm glad they resolved it, as from this thread they have almost all previous requests. I wonder if the issue is the mousepad mats are much more expensive to ship, so harder to absorb that. Regardless, in the future I think you will reach this point faster if you are a little more polite in your requests, Lutharr. But again glad it is finally sorted!

Shame it took so long but they did not have to go back on this and its good of them to do so eventually.

I think they just got a bit miffed with the way you asked for some reason

 Rayvon wrote:
Shame it took so long but they did not have to go back on this and its good of them to do so eventually.

I think they just got a bit miffed with the way you asked for some reason

Quite likely - but their current response is still the one that they should have started with.

And the response required by law.

The attitude of the customer has no bearing on what is required - only how far beyond minimal compliance a retailer is willing to go.

Still, if the lesson has been learned, then all is good.

A calm answer turneth away wrath.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:
Shame it took so long but they did not have to go back on this and its good of them to do so eventually.

I think they just got a bit miffed with the way you asked for some reason

Quite likely - but their current response is still the one that they should have started with.

And the response required by law.

The attitude of the customer has no bearing on what is required - only how far beyond minimal compliance a retailer is willing to go.

Still, if the lesson has been learned, then all is good.

A calm answer turneth away wrath.

The Auld Grump

Agree with it all mate, if it were my business I would have refunded him no questions irrelevant of his perceived attitude.

At least they actually came around, that makes them better people than I originally gave them credit for and I have edited my initial post as well to reflect this.

Its easier to be stubborn and just ignore it, than it is to realise you made a mistake and fix it eh, for some people anyway.

 RiTides wrote:
I'm glad they resolved it, as from this thread they have almost all previous requests. I wonder if the issue is the mousepad mats are much more expensive to ship, so harder to absorb that.

It would be nice if they could respond in the topic. I'm glad that the issue with Lutharr has been settled, but there are still a lot of questionmarks over what other customers can expect.

I've been looking at mats the last few days for x-wing and Infinity. DCS appear to have some great products, but if I were to order from them, how do I know that my mat won't turn up blue as well? And I end up with the same trouble Lutharr had. Was this issue a one-off, or are there problems with the mouse mats? It would be nice if they could respond and clear this up for everybody.

Well I'll post a picture of mine when it comes in, although likely in the N&R thread so we don't duplicate discussion. I am curious if this particular mat just came out miscolored for some reason, rather than that being the actual design (which seems to not be possible given the art).

Relapse wrote:
Bait and switch laws don't exist over there, I see.

Yes they do. Problem is nobody makes the effort to go after unethical people like Deep Cut Studios for treating a consumer as poorly as that; after all, it's only 10 quid, right? And that's why folks keep getting away with such business practices.

I am curious if this particular mat just came out miscolored for some reason, rather than that being the actual design (which seems to not be possible given the art).

RiTides, most printing like this is done using four color process, meaning four layers of transparent colors in a dot pattern overlapping each other. The overlapping and the colors showing through the negative space of the dot pattern create the image. The four colors used in this process are cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. It looks like something happened during the printing process (jam up, machine start up, etc.) and all the print sections were not on, and all that printed was the cyan. This should have never left the door at the manufacturing company and if it was prepackaged I can see how it shipped form DCS. Although I agree with everyone else that when presented with the photos they should have replace or refunded at absolutely no cost to the buyer.

I'm seeing a lot of words like 'unethical' and other inflammatory language, so having more than a bit of trading standards and customer service law experience from back in the UK, I'd like to point out some things.

1. It's highly likely DCS were simply unaware they were obligated to pay return postage, hence my pointing out the laws on the issue on page 1 of this thread. They had offered to partially rectify the situation and have now, likely on being made aware of their legal responsibility, decided (wisely...) to settle in full accordance with EU and UK trading laws. This thread did seem very ready to get the pitchforks when there really wasn't the back and forth history prior to posting to warrant that, unlike, say, the Blue Table fiasco.

2. The OP sounds like he kicked off with DCS on their page publicly and gave them hell instead of patiently escalating matters (after which you can raise hell, see the Blue Table fiasco for how that reached a certain level before a 'pile in' was acceptable). So their backs were up and they offered below what was required of them in this matter, that's why it's often better to start complaining politely in a reasonable and professional manner. I also read here 'no matter how rude, the customer had the right'... which isn't the case, if the customer can be shown to be harassing, vulgar, threatening etc, this can go in a whole different way... be warned...

3. DCS are, in no way, obliged to further trade with this or any other customer in the future. I would suggest on resolution of this matter, they both go on their merry way and wipe the slate clean. The OP has already found another company to his liking (the presence of other companies selling same/similar products allows the supplier to refuse further trade).

4. Defamation, Slander and Libel recourse all also exist in the EU's trading laws, so be careful how you tread in using hyperbole or words like 'slimy rats'... Professional, curteous exchange and maintaining the moral high ground are excellent when/if you have to present your case to an outside arbitrator. It avoids you looking like the aggressor, which invariably sets that ombudsman against you.


finally

5. I was looking at DCS product myself, especially their 6x4 space mats for my BFG/STAW games and would greatly appreciate some feedback from them on whether this really was a 'one off' or whether they really cannot produce actual 'true black' on their mouse mat materials.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


(...)
finally

5. I was looking at DCS product myself, especially their 6x4 space mats for my BFG/STAW games and would greatly appreciate some feedback from them on whether this really was a 'one off' or whether they really cannot produce actual 'true black' on their mouse mat materials.

I'm in the same case, I was about to order a game mat when I saw this thread.
I just want to know if it's a recurent issue with DCS products or just an isolated case.

this matter is now resolved. I think they have taken a look at their stock and realised that particular mat is indeed faulty as they dont want me to waste my time posting it back and have put that style on hold for now.

I have been offered a full refund for both the mat and the postage. And I am more than happy to repurchase said mate again in the future if the mats are fixed.

People can read the original messages. I was in no way abusive in them til the very end when my back was very much up, and nither were I on their facebook page. Unless posting a picture of an item is considered abusive somehow these days

I think tbh the thread has gone a long way to prove to them that good customer service is paramount when items are faulty. And given the content of the email I just got Id say its lesson learnt. Several others have used them in the past with no hassles at all and maybe it was just a personality clash in this case. All it all drek happens and now its resolved.

Im going to request an admin lock the thread now as I think it has servered its purpose

Glad to hear that it got resolved. Late, but in the end, everyone is satisfied. Already blew my mod whistle :*

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of words like 'unethical' and other inflammatory language, so having more than a bit of trading standards and customer service law experience from back in the UK, I'd like to point out some things.

1. It's highly likely DCS were simply unaware they were obligated to pay return postage, hence my pointing out the laws on the issue on page 1 of this thread. They had offered to partially rectify the situation and have now, likely on being made aware of their legal responsibility, decided (wisely...) to settle in full accordance with EU and UK trading laws. This thread did seem very ready to get the pitchforks when there really wasn't the back and forth history prior to posting to warrant that, unlike, say, the Blue Table fiasco.

2. The OP sounds like he kicked off with DCS on their page publicly and gave them hell instead of patiently escalating matters (after which you can raise hell, see the Blue Table fiasco for how that reached a certain level before a 'pile in' was acceptable). So their backs were up and they offered below what was required of them in this matter, that's why it's often better to start complaining politely in a reasonable and professional manner. I also read here 'no matter how rude, the customer had the right'... which isn't the case, if the customer can be shown to be harassing, vulgar, threatening etc, this can go in a whole different way... be warned...

3. DCS are, in no way, obliged to further trade with this or any other customer in the future. I would suggest on resolution of this matter, they both go on their merry way and wipe the slate clean. The OP has already found another company to his liking (the presence of other companies selling same/similar products allows the supplier to refuse further trade).

4. Defamation, Slander and Libel recourse all also exist in the EU's trading laws, so be careful how you tread in using hyperbole or words like 'slimy rats'... Professional, curteous exchange and maintaining the moral high ground are excellent when/if you have to present your case to an outside arbitrator. It avoids you looking like the aggressor, which invariably sets that ombudsman against you.


finally

5. I was looking at DCS product myself, especially their 6x4 space mats for my BFG/STAW games and would greatly appreciate some feedback from them on whether this really was a 'one off' or whether they really cannot produce actual 'true black' on their mouse mat materials.

Well, that's a huge bunch of nonsense for just one post. Defamation, slander and libel in trade law? Well that would be one peculiar legal system. I like the capitalization there, someone got his degree off of sovereign-citizen's-web, obviously.
Next, something like "slimy rats" is inherently so clearly stated a matter of opinion that it's permissible pretty much anywhere. I would suggest you stop talking out of your hindquarters on matters on which, even by internet standards, your understanding is so fundamentally hilariously flawed.
Besides that: it's immensely important to create as much social (and financial!) consequence/burden for companies who act in as slimy a manner as Deep Cut Studios. There is no reasonable way whatsoever to argue that a business which deals primarily in sales to consumers can even be remotely justified in not knowing such elementary cornerstones of basic contract law as pertains to consumer sales. ("elementary cornerstones of basic..."? Yeah. It's that fething idiotic to believe for one second this is not something any business in such a field should and would absolutely know).

In fact, let it be known clearly that the only reason I shall not repeatedly call Deep Cut Studios a bunch of slimy rats here on dakkadakka is rule number one. They're welcome at any time to DM me here on dakka for my full personal details and try and do something about me making sure to spread my opinion of their despicable business practices as far and wide through the gaming community as I can (and can be bothered to, but I'm perfectly happy to keep occasionally posting some tidbits for a couple of years ).
You know what, though? They won't. Even they just *won't*. Because even with your senses inserted so far up your hindquarters as I can only surmise to be required for the repugnant behaviour towards customers that Deep Cut Studios has clearly displayed here, they will still have sufficient sense to realise that everything you are so hilariously incorrectly claiming if absolute bantha gak.

So please, stop apologizing for businesses treating consumers as abhorrently as Deep Cut Studios apparently prefers to do, until they are called on it in such a public manner - that sort of senseless behaviour from the likes of you only enables companies like Deep Cut Studios to abuse customers as much as they clearly prefer to, had they not been called on it.

Play nice kids, it's time for my nap.

The OP's problem has been resolved - and hopefully DCS remembers this for later.

And I am fairly certain that their response has cost them some business.

DCS was in the wrong, and has had their arses impacted by steel capped toes.

No need to keep kicking it, for now at least.

Doesn't make them less in the wrong when it happened, but hopefully they can learn from it, and move on.


The Auld Grump

Copying here from the N&R thread for completeness:

 DeepCutStudio wrote:
In the end:
- solutions were found outside standard and formal procedures
- customer received a full refund without having to return the item back
- questionable mats were removed from sales for thorough investigation
- apologies were expressed

My personal thanks for all the feedback. It is the main force that kept us growing and I hope it will in the future as well.

Gediminas Jonaitis
Deep-Cut Studio

If either of the affected parties (Lutharr101 or DeepCutStudio) have more to add, please just PM me or another moderator to have the thread unlocked - thanks.