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Not wanting to play against unpainted armies is nothing to do with empathy. It's simply a preference.

A player's reasons for not having a painted army don't change that preference.

I agree with the first statement, but would argue against the second.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

Only playing with painted models is great if you have a painted army already, sucks if you don't. After a year of being back in the hobby I am only now able to field a fully painted army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have no problem playing against unpainted armies, because I can remember when I was building my army up and players with fully painted armies went up against mine without complaint.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

I don't particularly like playing myself with unpainted models. I love the spectacle of my men arrayed on the table. However, here's my problem.
I rarely get to game at all. Like, I'd say I could get about 4 games a year. I haven't found many FLGS in my area, and my younger brother has hit the stage where he prefers video games to a bit of dice rolling. Fair enough for him.
But am I still expected to roll up with a completely painted list, even though my hobby life is dying out? Is there even a point for me to be so obsessed with painting, even though I rarely do anything with the models in the first place?
In my state, I'd be happy to play against anyone, regardless of painting.
Dman, I'm really trying not to sound like a complete here, but with your attitude and the way it seems to be headed, I think you should be very glad you still get games. Just my thoughts.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

The cold's never really bothered me too much lol. Granted I'm definitely not skin and bone. I don't have a garage but I do have a wood stove in a shack away from the house, but spray paint and stoves don't mix well. So I'm out of luck as well. I could try do it in the basement with all the windows open or something but I would need to spray pain asap and there's always the chance the fumes linger in the house which I wouldn't want. The problem with that though is a bunch of folks in the house have asthma including myself and I'm worried it would bother us ect.

I certainly prefer playing against painted armies, and I myself never field units until they're fully painted, but I won't stop anyone from playing unpainted. Painting is a large time investment, and maybe they want to play a game before they have the time to get their models painted. Heck, I've even played against people who didn't have all the limbs on their models yet. (Though, to be fair, this is because they painted their models piecemeal, and they were doing a damn good job of it, too. Like the kind that would take hours just to finish an arm.)

 Gamgee wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

The cold's never really bothered me too much lol. Granted I'm definitely not skin and bone. I don't have a garage but I do have a wood stove in a shack away from the house, but spray paint and stoves don't mix well. So I'm out of luck as well. I could try do it in the basement with all the windows open or something but I would need to spray pain asap and there's always the chance the fumes linger in the house which I wouldn't want. The problem with that though is a bunch of folks in the house have asthma including myself and I'm worried it would bother us ect.

This is what you guys want. Spray painting indoors is now not a problem. You can find them as cheap as $50 if you hunt about.

Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?
We all bitch and moan about the lack of balance and terrible rules, so why 40k? There are better games out there, but i thought it was the cool models that drew people in?

Imo unpainted is fine IF the opponent is making progress on them. Otherwise unpainted i find just takes away from the experience. So in essence, yes i'd rather not play, and go do something else.

ITT: predictable rage and calls of "paint snob" from people who don't paint and feigned disgust and calls of "lazy kids" from people who do paint.

Seriously, if playing someone who doesn't paint their stuff offends you, don't play them. If you never bother to paint your stuff, don't act like anyone is obligated to give you their time for a game they may not enjoy.

Any game I've played with unpainted models are always the case where they're making progress. It does seem a bit strange to buy models without the intention of painting them ever. I never actually thought that was something someone would do.

I can understand someone wanting to play a mini wargame but not being into painting. Yes, I also know GW is bad at making a good game, but the ITC exists and really 40k is the only mini wargaming that's big enough to encounter somewhat easily if you don't have a gaming group. It's the same with a lot of video games, the better games don't always take off because there are mediocre ones that are ok enough and have enough recognition to keep drawing people in.

That being said, I'm surprised people don't proxy more often in testing games.

 eskimo wrote:
Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?

Because they like playing 40k?

 vipoid wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

Protip: buy a dog. Cats are a-holes

Dogs are more chew-y though. I'd be much more nervous having a dog around my minis than a cat. Sure, a cat might bat around my models, but any dog I'd want might swallow them, and I wouldn't want my dog to choke.

 Peregrine wrote:
I see. So I'm obligated to accept a game that I'm probably not going to enjoy very much

No, you aren't.

and even refrain from criticizing my opponent

Yes, you should.

just to satisfy some arbitrary demand to not be elitist?

No, because criticizing people in the context of the hobby you're both doing for leisure is being a dick and you shouldn't be a dick.

If the argument stopped at "I don't want to play against unpainted models because playing against painted models is more fun" then I don't really think there's a problem. Where it turns in to a vitriolic exchange is when people start criticizing other people by calling them lazy and telling them they shouldn't be in to wargaming at all if they don't embrace painting and whatnot.

It's enough of a put down to just be turned down for a game, so leave it there, no reason to be a judgemental douche about it too.

 Matthew wrote:
Some people don't have time, some people just don't want to, and some people feel like they're too bad to paint.

I can see what you mean, I'm by no means a painter. My models make mediocre painters cringe. I still paint em anyways

Thing is, painting models is the only way to get better at painting models. I get that people might be embarrassed, but they could just set aside a couple models to practice on and just base the others.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Thing is, painting models is the only way to get better at painting models. I get that people might be embarrassed, but they could just set aside a couple models to practice on and just base the others.

I play Grey Knights, Harlequins, Sisters of Battle, and Dwarfs. Being useless for anything else I do, my Assault on Black Reach Models have gone through a ton of paint schemes

You could always start up a small SM allied detachment. That's what I'm doing with my DE, allied to my Eldar

Dman137 wrote:
At are local gaming store we made a house rule that you need to have at least 3 colours and the base done if you want to play.

Colour minimum is such a stupid house rule, my nids are bone purple and then nuln oil'ed since its a swarm army. Isn't the best looking but it looks a lot better than grey. Shouldn't mean I don't get to play with them.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Colour minimum is such a stupid house rule, my nids are bone purple and then nuln oil'ed since its a swarm army. Isn't the best looking but it looks a lot better than grey. Shouldn't mean I don't get to play with them.

That would be three colors. Or you could highlight the edges a lighter shade of purple. Or paint the eyes. Etc. I don't think there's a single model in 40k that can be painted adequately without using at least three colors.

 eskimo wrote:
Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?
We all bitch and moan about the lack of balance and terrible rules, so why 40k? There are better games out there, but i thought it was the cool models that drew people in?

Imo unpainted is fine IF the opponent is making progress on them. Otherwise unpainted i find just takes away from the experience. So in essence, yes i'd rather not play, and go do something else.

Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions). Also I still have fun playing 40k even if the rules are unbalanced and terrible.

Just because my army is in progress doesn't mean I won't play. I try to basecoat most of my stuff before it hits the table though. Then I go and do something crazy like deciding to field an army composed of nearly 95% different miniatures than what I have completed currently(only Pedro Kantor, a Scout Squad, a Land Speeder Storm, and a Stormtalon were done). I have a long ways to go before the army will be fielded at 100% completion.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions).

I just don't get this, at all. What's the point of putting all the work into converting a model and then leaving it bare plastic? If you love the model and aren't just assembling it as quickly as possible to get a game piece then why not finish it?

 Peregrine wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions).

I just don't get this, at all. What's the point of putting all the work into converting a model and then leaving it bare plastic? If you love the model and aren't just assembling it as quickly as possible to get a game piece then why not finish it?

Because i don't care about pretending that my models are actually have a little tiny battle. when they are unpainted it feels like its my models and that im doing something.

As far as im concerned it is finished

 CrownAxe wrote:
As far as im concerned it is finished

So you paint all of your models then?