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How many points is Magnus really worth ?
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Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




 Traditio wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah, consider the following. Without support, it only takes 50.4 Devourer hits to kill Magnus (56.7 twin-linked shots). Each Flyrant is only 230 for 12 shots. So, for a similar price (690 as compared to 650) you can reliably kill Magnus in just two turns. Now, that is, of course, assuming he doesn't fight back. If he does, though, you'll probably lose a Flyrant a turn... Maybe? I mean, he's relying on 6s to kill them, since they can jink and even outright tank lesser D hits. But sure, let's assume Magnus kills one a turn, but the Flyrants also get turn 1

Turn 1-Flyrants pour out 36 shots, get 32 hits, 10.67 wounds, of which 4.44 go through. Magnus kills a Flyrant.

Turn 2-Flyrants do 24 shots now. 21.33 hit, 7.11 wound, 2.96 go through (for 7.4 total) and looky that, Magnus is dead!

I dunno. If Tyranids have an answer, it doesn't seem like an issue.


Dakka Flyrants are OP.

There's a reason why Tyrranid players consider them an auto-include and try to spam as many of them as possible.

The Tyrranids codex as a whole is terrible, but dakka flyrants are as OP as wraithknights and riptides.

Flyrants are another one of those models that should cost 600+ points.



I never understood the mentality of a troll. Is your life so empty and void of human interaction that you have to live your life making idiotic statements just to get a rise out of people. Sad really.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




PyrhusOfEpirus wrote:
 Traditio wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah, consider the following. Without support, it only takes 50.4 Devourer hits to kill Magnus (56.7 twin-linked shots). Each Flyrant is only 230 for 12 shots. So, for a similar price (690 as compared to 650) you can reliably kill Magnus in just two turns. Now, that is, of course, assuming he doesn't fight back. If he does, though, you'll probably lose a Flyrant a turn... Maybe? I mean, he's relying on 6s to kill them, since they can jink and even outright tank lesser D hits. But sure, let's assume Magnus kills one a turn, but the Flyrants also get turn 1

Turn 1-Flyrants pour out 36 shots, get 32 hits, 10.67 wounds, of which 4.44 go through. Magnus kills a Flyrant.

Turn 2-Flyrants do 24 shots now. 21.33 hit, 7.11 wound, 2.96 go through (for 7.4 total) and looky that, Magnus is dead!

I dunno. If Tyranids have an answer, it doesn't seem like an issue.


Dakka Flyrants are OP.

There's a reason why Tyrranid players consider them an auto-include and try to spam as many of them as possible.

The Tyrranids codex as a whole is terrible, but dakka flyrants are as OP as wraithknights and riptides.

Flyrants are another one of those models that should cost 600+ points.



I never understood the mentality of a troll. Is your life so empty and void of human interaction that you have to live your life making idiotic statements just to get a rise out of people. Sad really.


600 pts+ flyrants hahahahahahaha
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




The gap in capability between flying vehicles and FMCs is staggering. That's why I strongly suspect that GW has undercosted Magnus.
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Exactly and then magnus doesnt accomplish much without WCs for a 650 pts model...
   
Made in ca
Water-Caste Negotiator




Ontario, Canada

I've so far played against Magnus 3 times with 3 different armies; a FSE CAD + drone net vx-01 (only MC/GC's were a non-OSC unit of ghostkeels), a Daemon incursion list (fateweaver with murderhost and forgehost), and a mono MSU harlequin list (Cegorachs revenge + Cegorachs jest). I won all 3 games.

First was Tau (FSE to be exact) against a Thousand sons grand coven, with Magnus, war cabal and war coven. the psychic powers were nuts admittedly (surprise surprise), and Magnus did survive... but nothing else did and I won quite handily. He had a ton of warp charges and abused the hell out of siphon magic, but not even summoning could keep so few models alive from Tau shooting. Treason of Tzeentch (takes control of one of my units and shoots with it) was annoying but with no stormsurges was hardly game breaking (although I could see it being incredibly powerful against stormsurges... but those could use more counters so who cares), due to the drones to eat the D-shots and high cover save, the ghostkeels were pretty much unmolested. Was a crushing victory. A warp charge spamming thousand sun list led by Magnus has too few models and overall too little durability to be truly competitive. A neat and awesome looking army though if somewhat gimmicky.

Second was some hot Daemon on Daemon action. I took the incursion (see above) against Magnus joining a Pandemoniad of Tzeentch with a lorestealer host, and heralds anarchic. This was a fun game between the two different warp storm tables (I, using the normal one, and he, using the Tzeentchian one). I lost everything but most of the fleshhounds. Fateweaver ate a D-shot to the face (boo!) and my soul grinders did some good damage but were eventually shot to death in a storm of D-shots, bolts of change and a doombolt (and were the only viable target for treason of Tzeentch). The flesh hounds ate through his army like a plague though and in the end, like the first game, all he had left was Magnus. I won the objective game again. His army had more models than the Thousand Sons one (although not by too much), but are much, much squishier (blue horrors have a paltry toughness 2) and suffers the same problems, low board control and low overall durability. Fun note, if anyone cares, this was one of the few games I was fishing for a 4 on the warp storm table (all daemons get -1 to invuls) to make his army that much squishier.

Third was my underused (and sadly under-painted) Harlies against the exact same Magnus + Pandemoniad list that my Daemons fought. It went almost the same except worse. I lost more of my army, and he actually had a squad of blue horrors, a herald, a summoned chariot and the blue scribes surviving in addition to Magnus but I still won based on objectives (by a mere 2 points). This was by far the closest and could have gone either way. The amount of warp charges he produces actually enabled him to deny a lot in my psychic phase which is devastating as a harlequin player. But still his army folds when you get them in close combat.

My overall impressions of Magnus is that he is adequate for his points, maybe even leaning on overcosted although I'm hesitant to say so since he is so new. If you want him to be anything other than a 650 point D shot than you need to build a warp charge heavy army around him which definitely has it's weaknesses. Obviously he is built around exploiting siphon magic which can be sort of awkward since he has to be close to as many friendly psykers as possible which can't always keep up with Magnus unless he lands which makes him quite a bit more vulnerable. Omniscient Eye (line of sight to every unit on the table) is good but is kind of limited by the low range on his witchfires. Between the 2 strength D powers and Treason of Tzeentch he is obviously going to be strong against SHV's and GC's which is good for the game at large since these really need more counters. On the flip side, MSU is going to counter Magnus lists pretty hard, making Treason and D shots excessive and low impact. Meanwhile MSU is simultaneously much better than Magnus lists at grabbing objectives. He is admittedly, incredibly hard to kill, but this is offset by the army you need to support him being incredibly easy to kill, and his value drops quickly as his warp charge batteries disappear. All in all my recommendation is to give Magnus a chance and actually play him a few times before doom saying (and more than once since one game does not indicate a trend).

Cheers!
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I find it interesting that (at the time I am posting this) nearly half of the poll (44%) is saying Magnus should be cheaper, with 33% saying he is costed just right and only 24% saying he needs to be more expensive.

I think that if we assume equal trolling in both extremes we can say that Magnus is about where he needs to be.

   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

For what it's worth, my Magnus should be here by Thursday! (along with Triumvirate)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/16 23:54:18


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 chalkobob wrote:
I've so far played against Magnus 3 times with 3 different armies; a FSE CAD + drone net vx-01 (only MC/GC's were a non-OSC unit of ghostkeels), a Daemon incursion list (fateweaver with murderhost and forgehost), and a mono MSU harlequin list (Cegorachs revenge + Cegorachs jest). I won all 3 games.

First was Tau (FSE to be exact) against a Thousand sons grand coven, with Magnus, war cabal and war coven. the psychic powers were nuts admittedly (surprise surprise), and Magnus did survive... but nothing else did and I won quite handily. He had a ton of warp charges and abused the hell out of siphon magic, but not even summoning could keep so few models alive from Tau shooting. Treason of Tzeentch (takes control of one of my units and shoots with it) was annoying but with no stormsurges was hardly game breaking (although I could see it being incredibly powerful against stormsurges... but those could use more counters so who cares), due to the drones to eat the D-shots and high cover save, the ghostkeels were pretty much unmolested. Was a crushing victory. A warp charge spamming thousand sun list led by Magnus has too few models and overall too little durability to be truly competitive. A neat and awesome looking army though if somewhat gimmicky.

Second was some hot Daemon on Daemon action. I took the incursion (see above) against Magnus joining a Pandemoniad of Tzeentch with a lorestealer host, and heralds anarchic. This was a fun game between the two different warp storm tables (I, using the normal one, and he, using the Tzeentchian one). I lost everything but most of the fleshhounds. Fateweaver ate a D-shot to the face (boo!) and my soul grinders did some good damage but were eventually shot to death in a storm of D-shots, bolts of change and a doombolt (and were the only viable target for treason of Tzeentch). The flesh hounds ate through his army like a plague though and in the end, like the first game, all he had left was Magnus. I won the objective game again. His army had more models than the Thousand Sons one (although not by too much), but are much, much squishier (blue horrors have a paltry toughness 2) and suffers the same problems, low board control and low overall durability. Fun note, if anyone cares, this was one of the few games I was fishing for a 4 on the warp storm table (all daemons get -1 to invuls) to make his army that much squishier.

Third was my underused (and sadly under-painted) Harlies against the exact same Magnus + Pandemoniad list that my Daemons fought. It went almost the same except worse. I lost more of my army, and he actually had a squad of blue horrors, a herald, a summoned chariot and the blue scribes surviving in addition to Magnus but I still won based on objectives (by a mere 2 points). This was by far the closest and could have gone either way. The amount of warp charges he produces actually enabled him to deny a lot in my psychic phase which is devastating as a harlequin player. But still his army folds when you get them in close combat.

My overall impressions of Magnus is that he is adequate for his points, maybe even leaning on overcosted although I'm hesitant to say so since he is so new. If you want him to be anything other than a 650 point D shot than you need to build a warp charge heavy army around him which definitely has it's weaknesses. Obviously he is built around exploiting siphon magic which can be sort of awkward since he has to be close to as many friendly psykers as possible which can't always keep up with Magnus unless he lands which makes him quite a bit more vulnerable. Omniscient Eye (line of sight to every unit on the table) is good but is kind of limited by the low range on his witchfires. Between the 2 strength D powers and Treason of Tzeentch he is obviously going to be strong against SHV's and GC's which is good for the game at large since these really need more counters. On the flip side, MSU is going to counter Magnus lists pretty hard, making Treason and D shots excessive and low impact. Meanwhile MSU is simultaneously much better than Magnus lists at grabbing objectives. He is admittedly, incredibly hard to kill, but this is offset by the army you need to support him being incredibly easy to kill, and his value drops quickly as his warp charge batteries disappear. All in all my recommendation is to give Magnus a chance and actually play him a few times before doom saying (and more than once since one game does not indicate a trend).

Cheers!


Thanks for the info! Summs up Magnus pretty well. A bit overpriced but cool and interesting centerpiece.
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







 Galef wrote:
I find it interesting that (at the time I am posting this) nearly half of the poll (44%) is saying Magnus should be cheaper, with 33% saying he is costed just right and only 24% saying he needs to be more expensive.

I think that if we assume equal trolling in both extremes we can say that Magnus is about where he needs to be.


But the small majority, or large minority or... something!

Obviously Magnus is worth 999pts /s
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Galef wrote:
I find it interesting that (at the time I am posting this) nearly half of the poll (44%) is saying Magnus should be cheaper, with 33% saying he is costed just right and only 24% saying he needs to be more expensive.

I think that if we assume equal trolling in both extremes we can say that Magnus is about where he needs to be.


But the small majority, or large minority or... something!

Obviously Magnus is worth 999pts /s


That sounds like a Traditio poll result.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Against what i'm assuming is a battle demi company x2 for the free pods i'd probably land magnus and assault for days. Might not win, but he'd mop up a full unit each turn on top of casting spells.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

It only takes (7 wounds, 16.8 after 4++ rerolling ones, wounding on 2s is 20.16, hitting on 3s is 30.24) about 15 Sternguard rapid-firing to kill Magnus. Landing him could easily be a death sentence.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 JNAProductions wrote:
It only takes (7 wounds, 16.8 after 4++ rerolling ones, wounding on 2s is 20.16, hitting on 3s is 30.24) about 15 Sternguard rapid-firing to kill Magnus. Landing him could easily be a death sentence.


I didn't think you could rapid fire hellfire rounds

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

You definitely can.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 JNAProductions wrote:
You definitely can.


Thanks, good info.

At times like this having a Baleflamer Heldrake on the table would be pretty helpful.

But I digress.

Losing Magnus or losing the game? It's not a perfect plan but assaulting away the Sternguard seems like the only option, short of trying to out shoot them or flat out run from them.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Against what i'm assuming is a battle demi company x2 for the free pods i'd probably land magnus and assault for days. Might not win, but he'd mop up a full unit each turn on top of casting spells.


So would I but I play Nids and Space Wolves - risk and reward is how I play. The player with Magnus could only see the risk in dropping Magnus to glide for a turn before being able to charge.
One turn where every Space Marine that can shoot Magnus will shoot Magnus and they won't be hitting on 6s.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Against what i'm assuming is a battle demi company x2 for the free pods i'd probably land magnus and assault for days. Might not win, but he'd mop up a full unit each turn on top of casting spells.


So would I but I play Nids and Space Wolves - risk and reward is how I play. The player with Magnus could only see the risk in dropping Magnus to glide for a turn before being able to charge.
One turn where every Space Marine that can shoot Magnus will shoot Magnus and they won't be hitting on 6s.


I dunno, you do have some flexibility where you land him, if you plan on landing him from the start.

We'll be bringing Magnus to 1,000 point games. He will land. He will assault.

EDIT - it might be awful and he might die horribly, but what are you going to do? Just leave him in the sky taking (admittedly dangerous) pot shots at things? Seems like you're getting half of a unit at that point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/17 22:35:10


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Against what i'm assuming is a battle demi company x2 for the free pods i'd probably land magnus and assault for days. Might not win, but he'd mop up a full unit each turn on top of casting spells.


So would I but I play Nids and Space Wolves - risk and reward is how I play. The player with Magnus could only see the risk in dropping Magnus to glide for a turn before being able to charge.
One turn where every Space Marine that can shoot Magnus will shoot Magnus and they won't be hitting on 6s.


I dunno, you do have some flexibility where you land him, if you plan on landing him from the start.

We'll be bringing Magnus to 1,000 point games. He will land. He will assault.

EDIT - it might be awful and he might die horribly, but what are you going to do? Just leave him in the sky taking (admittedly dangerous) pot shots at things? Seems like you're getting half of a unit at that point.


I don't read minds. I guess in his mind losing Magnus was worse than losing the game? Maybe his mind shut down when the last support psyker took a dirt nap?

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Magnus is a large chunk of an 1850 point army - a large chunk that needs to be built around to be truly effective.
I'm making this sound a bit simple but I've seen it done - kill Magnus' pricey Psychic support and Magnus quickly drops in threat levels. Fifteen spells is cool but how many can you cast with eleven Warp Charge Dice...or six?
Turned into a standoff, if Magnus landed he would do some damage then die - If he stayed airborne the other team could just spread and grab objectives, on turn three that's a hard place to be.


Must have taken a highly mobile force to do that.

Assuming this player went at the top of turn 1, what'd they do?

Also, can you recall the approximate list for Magnus? I'd be curious to see if the army was wholly devoted to Magnus, or if it had some conventional army elements too...


Vanilla Marines.
Fairly general Marine list and a few squads of those vets with multiple ammo types drop podding in - just "Ignored" Magnus at the beginning and hunted the Psykers - had all of the Psykers except Magnus himself gone by the end of his turn three. Thousand Sons were stripped of four or five Warp Charge dice each turn.


Against what i'm assuming is a battle demi company x2 for the free pods i'd probably land magnus and assault for days. Might not win, but he'd mop up a full unit each turn on top of casting spells.


So would I but I play Nids and Space Wolves - risk and reward is how I play. The player with Magnus could only see the risk in dropping Magnus to glide for a turn before being able to charge.
One turn where every Space Marine that can shoot Magnus will shoot Magnus and they won't be hitting on 6s.


I dunno, you do have some flexibility where you land him, if you plan on landing him from the start.

We'll be bringing Magnus to 1,000 point games. He will land. He will assault.

EDIT - it might be awful and he might die horribly, but what are you going to do? Just leave him in the sky taking (admittedly dangerous) pot shots at things? Seems like you're getting half of a unit at that point.


I don't read minds. I guess in his mind losing Magnus was worse than losing the game? Maybe his mind shut down when the last support psyker took a dirt nap?


Not criticizing his strategy just remarking on what i'd do. Why is everyone so sensitive today? I can't see the game batrep, maybe he played optimally and that's not really here nor there. I'm just interested in discussing ways Magnus can be used.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/17 23:48:08


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
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I'm not being sensitive I just have no idea what his gameplan was. Me, I'd risk it all - better to get boardwiped in a glorious round of stupidity and bloodshed than to draw out a stalemate you know you can't win for two or three more turns.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
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Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'm not being sensitive I just have no idea what his gameplan was. Me, I'd risk it all - better to get boardwiped in a glorious round of stupidity and bloodshed than to draw out a stalemate you know you can't win for two or three more turns.


We're on the same page, for sure!

I guess this is why everyone is so split on how to cost Magnus. You don't just drop him on the board and win.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 16:43:17


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Marmatag wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I'm not being sensitive I just have no idea what his gameplan was. Me, I'd risk it all - better to get boardwiped in a glorious round of stupidity and bloodshed than to draw out a stalemate you know you can't win for two or three more turns.


We're on the same page, for sure!

I guess this is why everyone is so split on how to cost Magnus. You don't just drop him on the board and win.


Currently I don't think there are any Unique Characters you can drop and auto win. There's a couple of really mean combinations out there but nothing that guarantees victory - as far as I'm aware the worst stuff is spammed.
I've only glanced over Thousand Sons - I preordered both Warzone Fenris collections because Space Wolves and gave the Chaos rules in both boxes to a friend who does play Chaos (bloody expensive Xmas present, did make for a really good joke about Logan Grimnar being Santa Clawz though) - but as far as I can tell it's super restrictive to take him below 2000 points in a straight Chaos army. Where I have seen Magnus put down in terrifying fashion was unbound alongside Eldar, on paper that list was mental, on the tabletop Magus has a 24' Come the Apocalypse bubble that the player has to contend with but Eldar are stupidly mobile as is Magnus in Swooping mode. End of the day though he's still a whopper chunk of an army that can have his day absolutely ruined by the presence of Sisters of Silence or the Culexus Assassin.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.

~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
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 Aenarian wrote:
I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.


Flyers kind of have to be built for, it's the reason why Flyrant spam and Flying Circus work, they catch people out for not purchasing Skyfire but they don't have the weakness of relying on grounded units to operate.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Aenarian wrote:
I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.


Flyers kind of have to be built for, it's the reason why Flyrant spam and Flying Circus work, they catch people out for not purchasing Skyfire but they don't have the weakness of relying on grounded units to operate.


Yes, but to down Magnus within a reasonable amount of time I would either need to take fighters (which I don't ever take) or something like three or four Hydras. I could see myself taking one or two perhaps in a normal game, but not four (which would cause something like 1.5-2 wounds per turn). Instead, I could just take more artillery and kill everything else.

~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker





May have missed a few parts of this but the main build I am seeing for Magnus is with 3 DP in the formation. That means 14+D6 WC. 4 FMC zooming around the board all dropping units of horrors and chariots/flamers all over the place to increase the WC pool and objective grab.
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Aenarian wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Aenarian wrote:
I am actually unsure if I could kill Magnus without tailoring against him as Death Korps of Krieg, because I don't have any firepower capable of damaging him in large volumes (a few lascannons/laser destroyers will not really affect him) that aren't blasts. On the other hand, I don't think I actually need to kill him since I can probably barrage the rest of his army and then hold objectives, since 650 points would give me almost 9 Earthshakers.

So no, I don't think he's overpowered and is probably fine at 650 points. If his cost was to go up, they would need to reduce the rest of the Thousand Son's army. Hell, they would need to do that anyway.



Flyers kind of have to be built for, it's the reason why Flyrant spam and Flying Circus work, they catch people out for not purchasing Skyfire but they don't have the weakness of relying on grounded units to operate.


Yes, but to down Magnus within a reasonable amount of time I would either need to take fighters (which I don't ever take) or something like three or four Hydras. I could see myself taking one or two perhaps in a normal game, but not four (which would cause something like 1.5-2 wounds per turn). Instead, I could just take more artillery and kill everything else.


That was kind of the point.
Magnus isn't like Flyrant spam. Flyrant spam doesn't care about any tax units left on the ground, Magnus relies on the grounded units.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
 
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