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JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts.

40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game.

Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

And yet, so much else is. The model is more than X" away = ZERO chance to shoot / charge. Tank shock regular IG armed only with Lasguns. Why shouldn't uber models just grind away? And who knows, maybe the MC whiffs and they just stare at each other.

Odd. I though 40k was built around tactics.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough. They are suppossed to be quick and agile. In the case of the Necrons,T8 is understandable for the C'tan. They are gods,after all,but even in their case,rumors have been that the C'tan may be dropped from the next Necron codex and they will become Apocalypse scale models.

SIGH...it should be apparent with the introduction of Apocalypse and the fact that they are scaling down the T stat on monstrous creatures that GW is redefining what an uber model is.

It's built around tactics. It's also built around list building and die luck,too. The designers have always had the element of chance involved. Otherwise,as I said,you're just playing chess with expensive pieces.

Methinks that your problem really has more to do with the impending nerf the Wraithlord has coming than anything else,however.

They usually didn't do battleforces for things like BT, BA, DA, etc just generic armies.

They might do one after the AO time period... it might be wise just to get the codex at first and plan it out. But yes its going up tuesday and then 4 weeks from then is released. I may actually **BUY** a WD for the first time in about 8 years if they have decent painting articles in it about DE.

Whatever1 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts.

40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game.

Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

And yet, so much else is. The model is more than X" away = ZERO chance to shoot / charge. Tank shock regular IG armed only with Lasguns. Why shouldn't uber models just grind away? And who knows, maybe the MC whiffs and they just stare at each other.

Odd. I though 40k was built around tactics.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough. They are suppossed to be quick and agile. In the case of the Necrons,T8 is understandable for the C'tan. They are gods,after all,but even in their case,rumors have been that the C'tan may be dropped from the next Necron codex and they will become Apocalypse scale models.

SIGH...it should be apparent with the introduction of Apocalypse and the fact that they are scaling down the T stat on monstrous creatures that GW is redefining what an uber model is.

It's built around tactics. It's also built around list building and die luck,too. The designers have always had the element of chance involved. Otherwise,as I said,you're just playing chess with expensive pieces.

Methinks that your problem really has more to do with the impending nerf the Wraithlord has coming than anything else,however.

I don't think he actually is talking about the codex stats......

I think that he means Nids (if you think of them as a real thing ) are not as tough (because they are all fleshy) as something like the Wraithlord that is made of whatever its made from (its not fleshy.....)

Samus_aran115 wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I want a dark eldar megaforce!!!! That would be amazing

what the hell would you put in it? There aren't enough 'big' models that could fill up a megaforce. Look at the chaos one. A defiler, a land raider, a terminator unit, 2 rhinos, 2 units of CSM and a terminator lord. I think there's more also.

There's really no DE equivalent to that, except possibly 5 raiders, 2 ravagers,a talos, 4 warrior units and some other stuff. Although that IS a good idea, it doesn't really warrant a megaforce.

I think that just means that GW needs to make a dark eldar titan and put it in the megaforce.

My biggest fear for the Dark Eldar Codex is that they'll make Raiders cheaper without otherwise changing them. The main tactic DE players use now is Raider spam, and it's stupidly effective. If Raiders get cheaper, who really cares what else is in the book? Just spam even More Raiders. Unless of course everything in the book was made that much better to compete with cheap Raider, making for a super broken book.

Talk of Raiders actually getting a tad more expensive but gaining other bonuses to compensate actually make me feel better about the release.

From what's been said about the raider, it seems to be getting better. So my guess is its either marginally pricier or the same.

We already know they're more expensive. Wasn't someone talking about them being 70 points base now? Though the rumor of them not coming with a dark lance base was disproven I believe? So yea, they're considerably more expensive.

But the things they carry are considerably more deadly now too. A basic troop choice with ranged, poisoned weapons for example? And no one knows if Warriors are still 8pts a piece.

It's possible they just offset the raider some to make up for a significantly better troop selection.

Nvs wrote:We already know they're more expensive.

Reading that, I thought you meant the Models, and I was getting ready to go convert to Malifaux, Warmachine and Hordes.

Can't wait for the Dark Eldar; what are you guys doing Painting-Wise?

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Yes there is a Blood Angels battleforce... In fact there's a battleforce for every SM chapter. It's called the "Space Marine Battleforce.". . . Not sure how you missed it.

Popsicle wrote:Can't wait for the Dark Eldar; what are you guys doing Painting-Wise?

If I decide to pick up 40k again, I'll paint my new DE very similar to how my current DE are painted. I think their new design accommodates my paint scheme better than the old one. With the Raiders, I'll have to modify the front skull so the lower jaw covers that new jutting triangle thing, but it should translate nicely.

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Oshova wrote:No there wasn't one. They don't cost much more to produce, and are an easy way to start an army. So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Oshova

Sure there was. It's called the Space Marine Battleforce.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I'll be able to give more specific information (FOC stuff, etc) when I sneak another look tomorrow - for now I'm relying on my shaky memory to dredge up information that I was honestly a bit too drunk to appreciate with anything but excitement and wonder.

Please! did you managed to sneak that look?

Personally I´m dying to know something about the new warp beasts and grotesques, the most uneldar units. Both looking and rule wise.

Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

puma713 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Oshova wrote:No there wasn't one. They don't cost much more to produce, and are an easy way to start an army. So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Oshova

Sure there was. It's called the Space Marine Battleforce.

As opposed to the Space Wolves that had their OWN Battleforce?

Don't forget the Ravenwing. A sub force of a sub chapter but which still got it's own battleforce.

chaos0xomega wrote:As opposed to the Space Wolves that had their OWN Battleforce?

Space Wolves have a very specific Troop choice boxed set, and those sprues include bits to modify Scouts. Blood Angels do not, Black Templars do not. Ravenwing, from what I can tell, have specific biker models that form their Troop units.

That's why Blood Angels didn't have a boxed set, the way I see it. Their were no core choices to justify boxing them together.

Whereas Daemons had no boxed set because half their troop choices (at the time) were metal, and most of the rest of their models were as well.

I don't see any reason why Dark Eldar WOULDN'T get a boxed set, personally, unless GW were phasing them out... Which I hope they aren't. They're a very nice deal, and an easy way to entice people into starting the hobby...

Kamsm8 wrote:They're a very nice deal

That's why they phase them out, because it means less money for them.

I hope they do get a battleforce. DE will be one of the first armies in a very long time that I would actually purchase one for.

Usually, I reject Battleforces because I play such niche forces that the battleforces are useless to me.

Im just jumping into this thread to post some info I found on DE. You may know it already?

Posted this weekend by Maelstrom Games:

The final bit of news we have for you this week is a big one. Come November, and after nearly twelve years of waiting, the piratical Dark Eldar will finally be released!

Maybe not a big surprise but I know now when they're popping up. NOVEMBER = DE.

Enjoy.. *runs away from thread, into the sunshine*

Aduro wrote:My biggest fear for the Dark Eldar Codex is that they'll make Raiders cheaper without otherwise changing them. The main tactic DE players use now is Raider spam, and it's stupidly effective. If Raiders get cheaper, who really cares what else is in the book? Just spam even More Raiders. Unless of course everything in the book was made that much better to compete with cheap Raider, making for a super broken book.

Talk of Raiders actually getting a tad more expensive but gaining other bonuses to compensate actually make me feel better about the release.

I agree with you to some degree, but think of this, now that wyches and warriors are troops as standard regardless of general choice, you can only raider spam with 6 of these units as 10 man squads, where as before you could manage 9 of those 10 man squads because of the elite slot. Granted you will possibly be able to slot in incubi to fill the elite raider slot BUT they will undoubtedly be much more expensive and means the raider spam list won't number as many models as it once could.

Just something to keep in mind.

Kroothawk wrote:Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

Then they're full of crap. Everything I've heard points towards a battleforce release for the first wave, in November/December.

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

This is something that was ridiculously misinterpreted. GW was ending army boxes, not battleforces or battalions.

Aduro wrote:
Don't forget the Ravenwing. A sub force of a sub chapter but which still got its own battleforce.

Because the Ravenwing models are very different to the standard Space Marine models.

I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Kanluwen wrote:This is something that was ridiculously misinterpreted. GW was ending army boxes, not battleforces or battalions.

The rumour came from reds8n, and it was long after the end of the (failed) Spearhead experiment.

Okay?

I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Because there's no Deathwing sprue, and the only Deathwing specific parts are a few shoulder pads, a Storm Bolter, a Power Sword, a set of legs and an Assault Cannon - all located on a sprue full of Power Armour Marines. A Deathwing Battle Force would just be a big box of Terminators - probably 15-25 of them, or maybe 15 and a Dread and Land Raider - but nothing that screams "Deathwing".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

Wasnt there a tyranid battle force after the space wolf one?

*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

i guess i dont lol

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

That and, if I recall, the 'Nid battlefore never changed from the old codex to the new one.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Because there's no Deathwing sprue, and the only Deathwing specific parts are a few shoulder pads, a Storm Bolter, a Power Sword, a set of legs and an Assault Cannon - all located on a sprue full of Power Armour Marines. A Deathwing Battle Force would just be a big box of Terminators - probably 15-25 of them, or maybe 15 and a Dread and Land Raider - but nothing that screams "Deathwing".

There's no Deathwing sprue yet. All you'd need is some unique shoulderpads, torsos, robed heads set up to fit into the torsos, a few character specific pieces(a psychic hood torso, robed/tabarded torsos, etc).

Voila! Deathwing battleforce!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

So, what about the Skaven battalion? Beastmen?
Because that's what people have been saying, nonstop since Reds8n stated that "Boxed army deals are going away", is what was going to happen.
That battalions and battleforces were being removed.

Since there's been battalions coming out since then...I'd say we're officially in the realm of a misinterpreted rumor.

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

Errrm... No?

Space Wolves: October 2009
Tyranids: January 2010
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks

The Wolf Codex was before the Tyranid Codex?

I could've sworn it was the other way around... hmm... guess not.