Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ShumaGorath wrote:
In retrospect I think you're right. I'm mixing the fluff up with the bloody handed one from fantasy. Though they do worship slaanesh and are changed by its influences, whether they would admit it or not. They are pre fall eldar and they are living the lifestyle that created slaanesh. Thousands upon thousands of years later. The same hubris and pride that empowers slaanesh wont let them admit that that is what they are doing with every slave they rape/eat/make fight other things.

I'm gonna draw a parallel for you:
Let's say that the DE collectively work at a bank/grocery store/GW outlet, whatever. Doesn't matter. And Slaanesh barges in brandishing a shotgun. He holds the shotgun to the Dark Eldars' collective head and says "Give me the goods, or I'll take your life."

Do the DE hand over the goods because they have a gun to their head and they want to survive?

Or do the DE hand over the goods because they think Slaanesh is such a fantastic guy?

I think I see your point. You're saying it's irrelevant because the result is the same. They're giving to Slaanesh.
My point is that hatred can never equate or coexist with worship. The two feelings are opposite. They live now like they did before the fall because they have to feed tortured souls Slaanesh or he will start sucking up their souls. They have to be evil to survive. The fact that they are enslaved in such a way is a humiliating outrage. They hate Slaanesh.

yakface wrote:Anyway, for those not awash in fantasy, again here are some salient points regarding the Dark Eldar:

Phil Kelly confirmed at the LAGD that he was currently writing the DE codex.

Jes Goodwin confirmed at the last LAGD that he was currently working on the DE models.

GW does not tend to show off miniatures for releases until they are 3 months away so just because they haven't shown anything doesn't mean that work isn't rapidly progressing.

Reliable people who tend to get to see things early claim to have seen the new DE models (Brimstone, Moloch, and in this particular case I'll include myself).

There was at least one art tidbit that slipped out, in the form of the new splinter rifle in the last batch of CAD stuff that was shown around the events.

The design changes shown in the 5th edition rulebook for the Dark Eldar may possibly-perhaps match these possibly-perhaps new DE models.

But this is all trumped if John *wills* DE out of existence, you realize. He has a power ring and can make stuff like that happen.

Archonate wrote:I think I see your point. You're saying it's irrelevant because the result is the same. They're giving to Slaanesh.
My point is that hatred can never equate or coexist with worship. The two feelings are opposite. They live now like they did before the fall because they have to feed tortured souls Slaanesh or he will start sucking up their souls. They have to be evil to survive. The fact that they are enslaved in such a way is a humiliating outrage. They hate Slaanesh.

I agree with all of this, but I think that just shows the shortcomings of their background (such as it is). It shouldn't take 100 words to describe their motivations. They need to give them a better "hook".

I agree that they should have a hook, but the complexity is also whats interesting. So call them Chaos Eldar pirate, gladiator, slavers for simplicity but the other stuff is also important, if not more so.

I really hope we see more versatility in the Raider kit. The concept was very much pirate ship meets Jabba' palace barge, both convey to me a sense that these would be pretty personalized for the archon or even just the warriors that use them.

gorgon wrote:But this is all trumped if John *wills* DE out of existence, you realize. He has a power ring and can make stuff like that happen.

Actually, if I had a magic power ring that controlled what rulesets GW published, you can bet your bottom dollar that nuking DE would be the absolute *last* thing I'd even consider doing.

I'm an exceedingly selfish git, so my very first thing would be to force GW to publish a brand new, totally broken WFB Dogs of War Army Book. I'm talking brutal levels of beardiness, because that book is going to have to last for at least 2 editions spanning at least a decade, so it needs to be rules-nerf-proof.

Then, I'd take care of my Chaos Dwarf buddy who got me started into WFB in the first place. He's a great guy who read the writing on the wall for his CD before 2000, so I think he deserves a bit of redemption.

Finally, I'd push for Necrons so that playing them is less of a grind and their opponents (and players) can understand WTH is going on.

Beyond that, I really don't care so much.

How about bringing back squats, but messing with people for fun, and only have chaos squats? Where ever they were hanging out was never eaten by a hive fleet, as far as I know.

I'm sure with DE we'll see some good new stuff. Chances are GW will overdo it in their zeal to sell the DE, I'm almost bracing in advance of the cries of cheese that will probably come.

Demiurg/Squats? Actually, I would totally be up for that as an Elite entry in the new Guard Codex:

IG Elites:
- Beastmen Assault Squad (Fleet S4 T3 W1 A2+)
- Ogryns Heavy Assault Squad (Fleet S6 T5 W3 A4+)
- Ratling Scouts (BS4 S2 T2)
- Squat Warriors (Stubborn BS4+ S3 T4 Sv4+)

Rule-wise:
- Beastmen are Furious with dual Rending CCWs (no ranged attack).
- Ogryns are just cheap and huge
- Ratlings have Sniper Rifles and can Spot as Forward Observers providing BS4 LOS for an Barrage unit.
- Squats can attach Squat Artillery (Mole Mortars, etc.), upgrade to Exo-Armor, or ride Trikes (pick one).

*That* is what I would do for Squats, Guard, and Abhumans in general.

I like the Dark Eldar, generally. They just need to make them distinctively different from Eldar. Not Just Chaos Eldar.


I like the idea that give hold to everything that caused the fall of the eldar.

I know this is terrible but I really view Dark Eldar and Eldar as Romulans and Vulcans in Star Trek.

One is unemotional the other embraces it.

When you think about it now it does seem silly GW didn't just bump the Squats over into IG all those years ago. They were rather similar and could have just been another Abhuman entry.

Maybe GW will see it and add them to the Codex.

Hahahahaha!!!

As if GW would ever pay attention to a random Dakka suggestion.

Or deign to do anything for Squats.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Demiurg/Squats? Actually, I would totally be up for that as an Elite entry in the new Guard Codex:

IG Elites:
- Beastmen Assault Squad (Fleet S4 T3 W1 A2+)
- Ogryns Heavy Assault Squad (Fleet S6 T5 W3 A4+)
- Ratling Scouts (BS4 S2 T2)
- Squat Warriors (Stubborn BS4+ S3 T4 Sv4+)

Rule-wise:
- Beastmen are Furious with dual Rending CCWs (no ranged attack).
- Ogryns are just cheap and huge
- Ratlings have Sniper Rifles and can Spot as Forward Observers providing BS4 LOS for an Barrage unit.
- Squats can attach Squat Artillery (Mole Mortars, etc.), upgrade to Exo-Armor, or ride Trikes (pick one).

In general, I like it, though it'd leave the question "What about Storm Troopers?", but those four entries would easily cover all the bases that IG Elites should be all about. As it is, I'm going to see about getting some to use as Krieg Engineers.

Oh, Storms should be Troops, just like in WH / DH.

aka_mythos wrote:Chances are GW will overdo it in their zeal to sell the DE, I'm almost bracing in advance of the cries of cheese that will probably come.

From the hearsay floating around all the forums, I gather that this is entirely possible. The craziest rumor I heard was the possibility that a Raider could fly in, unit disembarks, attacks, embarks again and flies away, all in 1 turn. Not holding my breath for that one...

For those interested, "The Torturer's Tale" a short story by Gav Thorpe is by far the best source of Dark Eldar background. You can find it here courtesy of the Wayback Machine. It does a great deal to clarify the dark eldar relationship with Slaanesh. I do believe its been implied that Chaos Eldar could exist, left behind on the so called "Crone Worlds" in the Eye of Terror. But if so they are definitely distinct from the Dark Eldar.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The DE are still in limbo, and I still think the DE are going to get Squatted, eventually. That's what the evidence strongly suggests.

Actually the evidence suggests the exact opposite of what you just posted.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

No, the *hearsay* (i.e. rumor and speculation) suggests the exact opposite.

The actual *evidence* (e.g. photographs, documents), or lack thereof, continues to support what I posted.

All I ask is that someone provide some actual evidence, not another round of "trust me"...

Well the closest thing to "evidence" by your definition is just the newer art work done for this edition. It shows that GW cares enough about DE to spend money on them. Beyond that its alot of strong word of mouth from people who speak with the design studio from time to time.

Wait, so does that mean that Space Wolves and Imp Guard and Necrons are destined to be "Squatted" as I've not seen anything new for them for awhile now?

@Aka: the DE got a minimalist spread compared to IG and Eldar. I see it only as recognition that their 3E Codex remains valid in 5E, rather than a harbinger of something new in the works. That is, it's no more significant than the minor mentions of Solland, Ind, or Cathay in the WFB7 Rulebook.


@Aduro:
The key difference is that DE repeatedly have claims that something is coming, but *nothing* ever arrives. Heck, they didn't even warrant a single Datasheet in Apocalypse Reloaded. So I can no longer give the DE the benefit of the doubt here.

Guard received 3E and 4E Codices, and are on the schedule for a 5E Codex in 2009. Model-wise Guard got a nearly continuous stream of FW stuff leading up to the plastic Baneblade, along with loads of Apocalypse deals. When FW ran out of things to do with the Chimera and Russ, they created the Malcador out of thin air just to keep selling stuff. Plus the new Hades Drill and Gorgon. Now we're starting to see Arkurian Baneblade-based stuff. Since the Dark Eldar were released, GW redid the Cadians in plastic, along with the Armageddon, Elysian, Vostroyan, Tanith, and DKOK ranges of models. Based on the sheer volume of stuff that comes out that continues to be Guard-related, I say they're in no danger of being Squatted.

Necrons got some Apocalypse attention with a few Datasheets. So there's something real there.

Wolves? I don't know. Wolves haven't gotten anything lately, aside from a single Apoc Datasheet. But they're obviously "due" by inference from everything else GW has done. When, nobody can say.

But Dark Eldar, what did I miss?

We're lucky they did this to the squats so long ago. The term "squatted" just works so well.

Brimstone wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Can you tell us when you can

Well no direct info until the person/people who provided it gives me direct permission to do so, that's the way I work.

Until then I can hint, direct and make broad statements.

I can say that the model range both plastic and metal and in very good hands.

Well, my point was that they'll most likely let you talk about them once they are 3 to 6 months away from their release date. So if you could tell us when you could talk about them...

yakface wrote:
In short, DE are not going anywhere.

Too right! Ten years of not going anywhere! ....

;-)


I think Wood Elves are the perfect example for this army. It will happen, until then, play the army (like me) and dream a little dream of what's to come.. someday.
My number one wish was always just to have the equivalent of Guardian Storm Squads. Anything else is gravy baby!

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, the *hearsay* (i.e. rumor and speculation) suggests the exact opposite.

Clearly you have trouble discerning the distinction between "eyewitness testimony" and "hearsay."

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wolves? I don't know. Wolves haven't gotten anything lately, aside from a single Apoc Datasheet. But they're obviously "due" by inference from everything else GW has done. When, nobody can say.

Don't forget, Wolves got mention and a fluff update with the Eye of Terror campaign.

George Spiggott wrote:Dark Eldar will be the must have army of 2010, or possibly 2011...

They're my must have army for the year Hell freezes over.

Which is a shame, because I'm one of those waiting to play a decent DE range.

Pariah Press wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, the *hearsay* (i.e. rumor and speculation) suggests the exact opposite.

Clearly you have trouble discerning the distinction between "eyewitness testimony" and "hearsay."

Fun fact: Eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable in court. Doubly so when speaking of something as trivial as plastic toys.

Kilkrazy wrote:

stonefox wrote:Once GW's engineers figure out some way to create 10% more shelf space to accomodate DE boxes, they'll be released. I suspect that TARDIS technology might be involved so it'll take a while.

It's easier to use space distortion technology to create more shelf frontage than to reduce the amount of shelving allocated to Space Mariens.

Heck it's easier to invent spacefold tech than it is to drum up interest in the Dark Space Elfs of Space.

How about giving the Dark Eldar spiked cod pieces?

yakface wrote:
Anyway, for those not awash in fantasy, again here are some salient points regarding the Dark Eldar:

Phil Kelly confirmed at the LAGD that he was currently writing the DE codex.

Jes Goodwin confirmed at the last LAGD that he was currently working on the DE models.

When they said DE codex and models are you sure they didn't mean the Damned and the Entirely lost?

(Clutching to hope)

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

yakface wrote:
Anyway, for those not awash in fantasy, again here are some salient points regarding the Dark Eldar:

Phil Kelly confirmed at the LAGD that he was currently writing the DE codex.

Jes Goodwin confirmed at the last LAGD that he was currently working on the DE models.

When they said DE codex and models are you sure they didn't mean the Damned and the Entirely lost?

(Clutching to hope)

They were speaking of the Pan Fo.

You know, I really hope they do revamp the Evil Space Elves. OK, most of the sculpts for them have been ridiculously pointy to no real point in it. THere were some problems there. I think that their rules really needed tweaking some, not a complete re-write. Hell, the people I knew who played them ran roughshod over opponents a lot of the time. Thing is, I like fringe armies. I am no real fan of playing an army list that I didn't write, somehting formulaic. If I wanted formula, I'd break out the chessboard. DE are such a good concept, I think, but truly I think they may require more space to play properly than a 6x4 has. When I think of them, I imagine fast, fragile. Which is fairly common. But there seems to me to be little room on a 6x4 for proper maneuver for craft as fast as raiders and such are suppossed to be.

I think that their proper playstyle is so different from any other race out there. It's very distinctive. It's very extremist, and that makes it a great option in a game that can quickly begin to look like cookie cutter city. Facing different armies is great. DE were a different army