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Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






BlaxicanX wrote:

Provide the fluff that contradicts the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


How can a power sword decapitate a being that is can shrug off lascannon shots? How can such being challenged by a mere chaos marine?



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 21:41:56


   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






BlaxicanX wrote:
Provide these fluff instances that contradict the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics so that meat has the same density as tank armor. Since we don't see that kind of bizarre world when we're looking at things other than primarchs the obvious conclusion is that the amazing feats we see in the Heresy novels are just myths full of wild exaggeration (often for propaganda purposes) or events that are just made up entirely because it made the story more interesting.

The only other way to "explain" primarch durability is to resort to "it's magic", which is no better than "it's plot armor".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Crimson wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:

Provide the fluff that contradicts the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


How can a power sword decapitate a being that is can shrug off lascannon shots?


Was this lascannon shot aimed at an exposed neck, or was this Primarch trying to avoid dying by said Lascannon?

Because Curze was most certainly wishing and trying to die.

How can such being challenged by a mere chaos marine?


We don't know the particular's of the Lion's or Dorn's near-death and death, respectively. For the former; this was a Space Marine seriously juiced up on Chaos and psychic energy (see Kor Phaeron vs. Guilliman); for the latter, we don't know much except that he was seriously outnumbered. Curze's vision describes "dragged down by a hundred murderers in a dark tunnel, their knives and swords wet with the warriors blood" (although obviously, this is not the most accurate).

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Peregrine wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Provide these fluff instances that contradict the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics so that meat has the same density as tank armor. Since we don't see that kind of bizarre world when we're looking at things other than primarchs the obvious conclusion is that the amazing feats we see in the Heresy novels are just myths full of wild exaggeration (often for propaganda purposes) or events that are just made up entirely because it made the story more interesting.

The only other way to "explain" primarch durability is to resort to "it's magic", which is no better than "it's plot armor".


Basically this.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Peregrine wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Provide these fluff instances that contradict the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.
The only other way to "explain" primarch durability is to resort to "it's magic", which is no better than "it's plot armor".


Personally, I can't see why it cannot be both. Clearly the Primarchs will have plot armour; I wouldn't even try to deny that, but they also had varying levels of psychic ability and were apparently created with the help of the Chaos Gods.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Crimson wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:

Provide the fluff that contradicts the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


How can a power sword decapitate a being that is can shrug off lascannon shots? How can such being challenged by a mere chaos marine?


If you're referring to Ferrus Mannus, the power sword was wielded by a being strong enough to kill power-armor wielding marines in a single punch, physically match an avatar of Khaine in combat and strangle a Wraithlord to death.

The manner of Dorn's death at the hands of Chaos Marines was never explained.

Neither of these are contradictions.

con·tra·dic·tion
/ˌkäntrəˈdikSHən/
Noun
A combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.

 Peregrine wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Provide these fluff instances that contradict the Primarch feats found in the Horus Heresy series.


The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics so that meat has the same density as tank armor. Since we don't see that kind of bizarre world when we're looking at things other than primarchs the obvious conclusion is that the amazing feats we see in the Heresy novels are just myths full of wild exaggeration (often for propaganda purposes) or events that are just made up entirely because it made the story more interesting.

The only other way to "explain" primarch durability is to resort to "it's magic", which is no better than "it's plot armor".


 ScreamPaste wrote:
Yes. This is simple physics here,

No, it is not, and do not abuse this phrase.

Physics doesn't differentiate between meat and tank armour, what physics cares about his density, hardness, brittleness, malleability, conductivity, tensile strength, compressive strength, ect.

And Primarch flesh pretty clearly surpasses most tank armour in hardness, tensile and compressive strength, and remains malleable enough to allow them to move without cracking.

Pro-tip, Superman is made of meat. Fiction doesn't care, fictional meat is hardcore.


Furthermore, it isn't "magic" just because it's unexplained anymore than lightspeed in Star Wars is unexplained magic. Welcome to Sci-Fi/fantasy.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:06:07


 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine







I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.

Then Horus comes across the long grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Just Dave wrote:

Was this lascannon shot aimed at an exposed neck, or was this Primarch trying to avoid dying by said Lascannon?

Because Curze was most certainly wishing and trying to die.


I don't know, you were the one quoting all the magnificent feats. See, if the situation is that an armoured Primarch tries to dodge a lascannon shot but it still hits his shoulder or something and then he survives that, then it totally okay by me. Some people made it sound like Primarchs could take lascannon shots and missiles to the face and shrug them off like Superman. In the former case the Primarch can indeed be killed by a powersword, in latter it is just impossible, even if he would not resists. It's like you cannot kill Superman with an machine gun even if he would not oppose you.



We don't know the particular's of the Lion's or Dorn's near-death and death, respectively. For the former; this was a Space Marine seriously juiced up on Chaos and psychic energy (see Kor Phaeron vs. Guilliman); for the latter, we don't know much except that he was seriously outnumbered. Curze's vision describes "dragged down by a hundred murderers in a dark tunnel, their knives and swords wet with the warriors blood" (although obviously, this is not the most accurate).


Thing is if Primarchs are really so incredibly powerful, it means that chaos made Luther (who was not even a proper marine) much more powerful than Abaddon, and indeed any other chaos marine ever. This just doesn't seem right to me.

   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 LoneLictor wrote:
I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.

Then Horus comes across the long grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
That's a perfectly plausible and viable assumption. NOTHING IS CANON AFTER ALL.

 Crimson wrote:


I don't know, you were the one quoting all the magnificent feats. See, if the situation is that an armoured Primarch tries to dodge a lascannon shot but it still hits his shoulder or something and then he survives that, then it totally okay by me. Some people made it sound like Primarchs could take lascannon shots and missiles to the face and shrug them off like Superman. In the former case the Primarch can indeed be killed by a powersword, in latter it is just impossible, even if he would not resists. It's like you cannot kill Superman with an machine gun even if he would not oppose you.
The power sword was wielded by a fellow primarch. This is not a contradiction.

Thing is if Primarchs are really so incredibly powerful, it means that chaos made Luther (who was not even a proper marine) much more powerful than Abaddon, and indeed any other chaos marine ever. This just doesn't seem right to me.
It was never stated that he was killed by a single chaos marine. It could have been one, it could have been a thousand. This is not a contradiction either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:04:52


 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine







BlaxicanX wrote:
 LoneLictor wrote:
I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.

Then Horus comes across the long grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
That's a perfectly plausible and viable assumption. NOTHING IS CANON AFTER ALL.


Its better than some of the stuff in the Black Library.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






BlaxicanX wrote:

If you're referring to Ferrus Mannus, the power sword was wielded by a being strong enough to kill power-armor wielding marines in a single punch, physically match an avatar of Khaine in combat and strangle a Wraithlord to death.


No, Curze. Killed by an Imperial Assassin.

Also, strangle a WRAITHLORD? Wut?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:05:46


   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Crimson wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:

If you're referring to Ferrus Mannus, the power sword was wielded by a being strong enough to kill power-armor wielding marines in a single punch, physically match an avatar of Khaine in combat and strangle a Wraithlord to death.


No, Curze. Killed by an Imperial Assassin.
Kurze allowed himself to be killed, and the actual beheading is never explained nor shown, as the vid feed cuts out right before she attacks him. This is not a contradiction.

Also, strangle a WRAITHLORD? Wut?


Read Fulgrim?

He may have strangled the Avatar, I can't remember. He punched one to death and strangled the other one to death. Can't remember which one died how.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:10:52


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Crimson wrote:
 Just Dave wrote:

Was this lascannon shot aimed at an exposed neck, or was this Primarch trying to avoid dying by said Lascannon?

Because Curze was most certainly wishing and trying to die.


I don't know, you were the one quoting all the magnificent feats. See, if the situation is that an armoured Primarch tries to dodge a lascannon shot but it still hits his shoulder or something and then he survives that, then it totally okay by me. Some people made it sound like Primarchs could take lascannon shots and missiles to the face and shrug them off like Superman. In the former case the Primarch can indeed be killed by a powersword, in latter it is just impossible, even if he would not resists. It's like you cannot kill Superman with an machine gun even if he would not oppose you.


I never stated the Lascannon/Mortarion thing, as I don't know that piece of fluff myself and therefore cannot comment on it in particular.

That's because Superman is actually bullet-proof. I never stated the Primarch's to be anything-proof, but they are extremely tough.

We don't know the particular's of the Lion's or Dorn's near-death and death, respectively. For the former; this was a Space Marine seriously juiced up on Chaos and psychic energy (see Kor Phaeron vs. Guilliman); for the latter, we don't know much except that he was seriously outnumbered. Curze's vision describes "dragged down by a hundred murderers in a dark tunnel, their knives and swords wet with the warriors blood" (although obviously, this is not the most accurate).


Thing is if Primarchs are really so incredibly powerful, it means that chaos made Luther (who was not even a proper marine) much more powerful than Abaddon, and indeed any other chaos marine ever. This just doesn't seem right to me.


We don't know how Abaddon would fair against a Primarch, nor the details of Luther (as I've said already) or his then-psychic abilities (of which Abaddon appears to have none), or if Chaos actually wants to retain Abaddon's stalemate with the Imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Read Fulgrim?

He may have strangled the Avatar, I can't remember. He punched one to death and strangled the other one to death. Can't remember which one died how.


"Strangled" the Avatar, punched through the 'helm' of the Wraithlord and crushed its spirit stone.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:14:33


Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Ah, that's right. ty
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






So are we actually agreeing that a power sword wielded by a (almost) normal human can cut Primarch's flesh? And Lascannons and missiles can hurt and kill them unless they're armoured or dodge? And that a Primarch might not be much more powerful than Abaddon or other mighty Chaos Champion (Ahriman, for example)?

   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Where was it stated that she used a power sword?

For that matter, where was it stated that she did it in one blow? Or two? Or in less than than hour of straight cutting?

 Crimson wrote:
And that a Primarch might not be much more powerful than Abaddon or other mighty Chaos Champion ?


If you can provide feats from the fluff that show Abaddon and other marines performing feats on par with what we've seen from the Primarchs in the HH series, then sure.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:26:53


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Crimson wrote:
So are we actually agreeing that a power sword wielded by a (almost) normal human can cut Primarch's flesh?


Definitely. There's multiple instances on Primarchs being wounded; it's just typically by another Primarch. Unless the Primarch is willing to die (Curze) or seriously outnumbered (Dorn, we assume), it's unlikely a standard dude would be able to do much more than wound (and one at least has wounded Curze in the past), due to the sheer ability of the Primarchs.

And Lascannons and missiles can hurt and kill them unless they're armoured or dodge?


I don't see why not. I've not seen anything to suggest otherwise, although I'd assume it would take significantly more than one lascannon/missile to actually kill a Primarch.

And that a Primarch might not be much more powerful than Abaddon or other mighty Chaos Champion (Ahriman, for example)?


I'd imagine they'd be more powerful than both, significantly so IMHO. More so for Abaddon (that would be a straight fight afterall), but possibly not masses more so than Ahriman, due to the sheer power of psychic powers.

As I said: "I never stated the Primarch's to be anything-proof, but they are extremely tough."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:29:47


Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics
Stop abusing the laws of physics for your argument. Physics does not define 'meat' v.s. 'armour'.

Furthermore, Superman is made of meat, Hulk is made of meat, Thor is made of meat. Fictional meat is hardcore.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






BlaxicanX wrote:
Where was it stated that she used a power sword?

For that matter, where was it stated that she did it in one blow? Or two? Or in less than than hour of straight cutting?

Yes, she must have used industrial sized plasma-buzzsaw, intended for cutting parts for Land Raiders. Then, over the course of few days she slowly cut Curze's head off, while he laid there waiting for it to be over. Mind you, she had to replace the blade several times as it kept breaking against the Primarch's flesh.

If you can provide feats from the fluff that show Abaddon and other marines performing feats on par with what we've seen from the Primarchs in the HH series, then sure.

We have evidence for a Chaos Champion, Luther, challenging a Primarch.

   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





Luther was all kinds of juiced up when he fought The Lion. :|

As for the Curze thing, powerswords kind of have this thing called a powerfield, which I'm sure could be handy. It's also worth noting that the assassins in 40k are pretty far removed from normal humans.

Hell, it's entirely possible Curze died by his own hand after that recording ended.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:36:26


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 ScreamPaste wrote:
The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics
Stop abusing the laws of physics for your argument. Physics does not define 'meat' v.s. 'armour'.

Furthermore, Superman is made of meat, Hulk is made of meat, Thor is made of meat. Fictional meat is hardcore.


Superman and Hulk are also functionally magic / plot armor.
Which is his point.

And physics actually does define meat vs armor, at least insofar as density and strength is concerned.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 ScreamPaste wrote:
The fact that the universe still (mostly) functions like our own. You can't have living beings with tank-level durability without completely changing the laws of physics
Stop abusing the laws of physics for your argument. Physics does not define 'meat' v.s. 'armour'.

Furthermore, Superman is made of meat, Hulk is made of meat, Thor is made of meat. Fictional meat is hardcore.


Superman and Hulk are also functionally magic / plot armor.
Which is his point.

And physics actually does define meat vs armor, at least insofar as density and strength is concerned.


Actually hulk is made of Gamma Radiation that instantly regenerates.

Thor and superman have alien chemistry that avoid such things.

   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





Neither Superman or Hulk are magical. And you'd deny either one are insanely durable, instead deciding that they're only protected by plot armour? Neither Hulk nor Superman need plot armour to be able to soak incredible damage.

Physics does no such thing, it cares about density, conductivity, tensile strength, ect, it doesn't care whether the object being quantified is meat or not.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Just Dave wrote:

Definitely. There's multiple instances on Primarchs being wounded; it's just typically by another Primarch. Unless the Primarch is willing to die (Curze) or seriously outnumbered (Dorn, we assume), it's unlikely a standard dude would be able to do much more than wound (and one at least has wounded Curze in the past), due to the sheer ability of the Primarchs.

Then we agree here.

I don't see why not. I've not seen anything to suggest otherwise, although I'd assume it would take significantly more than one lascannon/missile to actually kill a Primarch.

Yeah, probably, unless it was 'naked Primarch strapped on a table and a doomlazor pointed at him' type of a deal.

I'd imagine they'd be more powerful than both, significantly so IMHO. More so for Abaddon (that would be a straight fight afterall), but possibly not masses more so than Ahriman, due to the sheer power of psychic powers.


Yes, I agree that a Primarch is more powerful than even a mighty Chaos Lord, but not so much that it would be completely one sided fight. With some luck a mighty Chaos Champion could still challenge a Primarch, just like Luther did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ScreamPaste wrote:
Luther was all kinds of juiced up when he fought The Lion. :|

Yes, he was, and so are other Chaos Champion too.

As for the Curze thing, powerswords kind of have this thing called a powerfield, which I'm sure could be handy. It's also worth noting that the assassins in 40k are pretty far removed from normal humans.


Powersword are not more deadly than missiles, lascannons, plasmaguns and all sort of other weapons that Primarchs may be shot with in any battle, not even when wielded by an assassin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:48:25


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Crimson wrote:
 Just Dave wrote:

Definitely. There's multiple instances on Primarchs being wounded; it's just typically by another Primarch. Unless the Primarch is willing to die (Curze) or seriously outnumbered (Dorn, we assume), it's unlikely a standard dude would be able to do much more than wound (and one at least has wounded Curze in the past), due to the sheer ability of the Primarchs.

Then we agree here.

I don't see why not. I've not seen anything to suggest otherwise, although I'd assume it would take significantly more than one lascannon/missile to actually kill a Primarch.

Yeah, probably, unless it was 'naked Primarch strapped on a table and a doomlazor pointed at him' type of a deal.


Exactly, and agreed!

With both these instances it requires the Primarch to be vulnerable. For, in Curze's example a dude jumped him from behind whilst he was otherwise, seriously preoccupied.
So they can most certainly be damaged or even killed by such weapons; but due to a combination of ability, general toughness and plot-armour; it's unlikely to happen in a conventional fight.

I'd imagine they'd be more powerful than both, significantly so IMHO. More so for Abaddon (that would be a straight fight afterall), but possibly not masses more so than Ahriman, due to the sheer power of psychic powers.


Yes, I agree that a Primarch is more powerful than even a mighty Chaos Lord, but not so much that it would be completely one sided fight. With some luck a mighty Chaos Champion could still challenge a Primarch, just like Luther did.


To an extent I agree... I personally believe it would be an almost completely one-sided fight unless said Chaos Lord had some psychic mojo or serious Chaos backing, IMHO.
For example, a Primarch would almost definitely rip Kharn (or Lucius minus regen.) to pieces, but Ahriman for example would put up much more of a fight; like Kor Phaeron before. That said, this Chaos Lord vs. Primarch thing is much less "factual" than the above regarding their toughness.
   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





Powersword are not more deadly than missiles, lascannons, plasmaguns and all sort of other weapons that Primarchs may be shot with in any battle, not even when wielded by an assassin.


Prove this.

Powerfields are pretty much the best bet in 40k for overcoming a substance durable enough to handle a macrocannon shot.

Besides which point we don't really know how Curze died, again you're dragging it into speculation and hoping what happened off screen can contradict what we know has happened on screen.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 ScreamPaste wrote:
Neither Superman or Hulk are magical.


Of course they are. Whether or not it's called "magic" in the story it works the same as magic.

Physics does no such thing, it cares about density, conductivity, tensile strength, ect, it doesn't care whether the object being quantified is meat or not.


Yes, and meat has certain ranges of density/conductivity/tensile strength/etc, otherwise it isn't meat. You can't make muscle tissue have the same physical properties as a solid block of depleted uranium without making it out of a solid block of depleted uranium, at which point it will no longer function as muscle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ScreamPaste wrote:
Prove this.


Easily. If power weapons are really that great then an anti-tank missile will consist of a power sword strapped to an engine. The missile will always be more powerful than the sword, unless you resort to magic and cast a "swords are awesome" spell that, because of magic, only applies to swords.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/03 22:56:34


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






So now I've to prove that in 40K lascannons are more powerful than power swords? I think next we will debate whether Ogryns are stronger than Gretchin or which is tougher tank Chimera or Baneblade.

And it has been in fluff for ages that Kurze was killed by Callidus Assassin M'Shen. But of course maybe he actually felt sorry for poor assassin after she had broken her power sword against his neck, and with his superhuman might ripped his own head off.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

 Crimson wrote:
So now I've to prove that in 40K lascannons are more powerful than power swords? I think next we will debate whether Ogryns are stronger than Gretchin or which is tougher tank Chimera or Baneblade.

And it has been in fluff for ages that Kurze was killed by Callidus Assassin M'Shen. But of course maybe he actually felt sorry for poor assassin after she had broken her power sword against his neck, and with his superhuman might ripped his own head off.


Hey, we came to a very reasonable conclusion IMHO; I'd take that and run if I were you.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





You can't make muscle tissue have the same physical properties as a solid block of depleted uranium
Then it wouldn't be mobile, of course not. You can however have muscle tissues with high flexibility as well as incredible tensile and compressive strengths, however.

Of course they are. Whether or not it's called "magic" in the story it works the same as magic.
I'm mostly quoting this to make sure you actually typed it. Superman is so blatantly non-magical he specifically has no resistance to magic in universe.

Easily. If power weapons are really that great then an anti-tank missile will consist of a power sword strapped to an engine. The missile will always be more powerful than the sword, unless you resort to magic and cast a "swords are awesome" spell that, because of magic, only applies to swords.


Speculation, I see.

So strapping expensive, complicated powerfields to engines so that you can basically stick a bunch of cost-inefficient spears into enemy tanks without actually disabling them due to the damage being largely superficial because of small area of effect would be the ultimate weapon?

No explosive to damage important components, disable weaponry not directly hit, or rock the tank? Way too espenive and costly for use?

Power weapons are effective against tanks... When properly used by strong enough wielders. Due to their powerfields. But one shot missiles that stick a spike into a tank would be pointless.
   
 
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