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Just wanted to open a new topic for the new codex.

My first thoughts?

Priests are now insanely good.
Simulcra are now an auto include.
Only 1 relic per character so no stacking up "Reroll failed saves" with "Eternal Warrior"

I want to hear the thoughts of the veteran Dakkanauts

Immediate thoughts

- acts of faith are one use only which seems like a pretty major nerf - do the points reflect this? It looks like the points stayed the same

- repentia's act of faith is now pretty good, but again suffers from one use only

- where's my Kyrinov? I could give a priest mace of valaan but then he only has one wound.

- sororitas command squad seems to have improved a bit

- on the other hand, I play counts-as Arbites, and now my crusaders have to have power swords instead of power mauls :(

Acts of Faith are more reliable though, especially with Laud Hailers near and/or one of IC with high Ld. And with a Simulacrum you can do it twice.

Apart from Retributors, I hardly ever used a unit's act of faith more than once or twice before they died.

As said acts of faith are much more reliable now, and you can get the simulacrum to use a power twice per game, and its cheaper than the old sim.

Being able to put 4 meltaguns and a combi-melta in an outflanking/scouting immolator with a MM on top is going to annoy some people! Especially when those Melta weapons can ignore cover. - this could ruin wave serpents, bikes, speeders etc. and also put some hurt on MC's like riptides and wraithknights

Repentia can now have a transport, although as it stands they cant use the forgeworld repressor. This makes them much more mobile

Priests seem amazing for their points, just having one in a BSS squad makes the whole unit a pain to remove and a vague threat in assault, especially now you can stick 3 flamer weapons in a squad of 5 bods (1/2Flamers 0/1HF 1 Combi flamer) plus you can stick a plasma gun on the priest. Thats a lot of shooting potential from 6 models.

Overall i think that the assault potential of the army has gone up (massed acro-flagellants might be fun) while the shooting has stayed similar to before, although only being able to rend on a max of 2 turns of retributor shooting per game is a bit of a negative, but to balance that exorcists have gone down in cost.

Priests for all I say! At their price they can make any unit into a threat cheaply.

I've been hearing that arco flaggellants are good now, what's that about?

They're cheaper, but I wouldn't call them 'good' now. They have a lot of S5 attacks but are still quite fragile. No armour save, just FNP.

But they are cheap! And you can take a lot without them clogging up your FOC slots.

You could make the coolest Word Bearer army out of this.

Space Marines (black templars) allied with Sisters

Crusader squads maxed out to represent word bearers herding slaves into battle. The sister allies would be comprised of arco-spam with priests to represent combat slaves/servitors. You'd have to make something up for the 5 sisters in an immolator you'd have to bring but other than that the fluff matches up pretty well.

I think people are going to dust off their Exorcists and put their Retributors in their place in storage, but that might just be an overreaction.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
You could make the coolest Word Bearer army out of this.

Ew, CSMs....

Let's talk about something that isn't lame, like Sisters

 Shandara wrote:
And you can take a lot without them clogging up your FOC slots.

That lats bit combined with the cheapness makes them pretty good actually, I think. More worth taking than in C:WH anyway.

Here is a little friendly mathhammer

The ability to reroll a 3+ save is big. This changes your chances of losing a model from 1/3 to 1/9 after they have been wounded.
This means instead of taking 3 wounds, they will be taking 1 -- or they will have 300% the durability to weapons that allow them armor saves.
This means that sisters can become excellent tarpit units, as it takes a large number of attacks to kill then (Barring AP3+ weapons)

Just how good is it? Here's an example.
Lets say you have a unit that his on 3s and wounds on 3 in assault and gives normal saves. This could be orks on the assault, space marines, khorne dogs, etc. Lets compare the durability of a squad of 10 sisters with a priest to a 50 man guard blob. It will take 169 attacks to kill every guard. It will take 183 attacks to kill 9 sisters (no counting the priest)
That's right. 9 sisters with a priest giving rerolls are more durable to those attacks than 50 guard!

This new book is deceptively powerful.

I took an MSU build packed with Immolators against a Drakespam list and won.

I didn't think this book could hold off three flyers, but three Exorcists did me proud in killing all three Drakes.

The MSU BSS with Flamer, Heavy Flamer and Combi Flamer and Priest with PG in a TL MM Immolator is a lot of firepower when you gang up two of these squads and take out just about anything in a single turn. Especially when you add a Dominion Melta Squad to the duo.

Two of these attack wings with optional Celestian support is very formidable on the flanks when you castle up the Exorcists.

I've got a second game tonight... against Necrons.

Really looking forward to it.

Don't we have a thread on this? Mods close one?

I'd rather this new one stay open as it is a new dex.

 Mythantor wrote:

Only 1 relic per character so no stacking up "Reroll failed saves" with "Eternal Warrior"

I want to hear the thoughts of the veteran Dakkanauts

There's no restriction for most characters to take multiple relics. Just one of each per army.

 pretre wrote:
Don't we have a thread on this? Mods close one?

The news and rumors thread should also be closed, as the codex is released.

 pretre wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:

Only 1 relic per character so no stacking up "Reroll failed saves" with "Eternal Warrior"

I want to hear the thoughts of the veteran Dakkanauts

There's no restriction for most characters to take multiple relics. Just one of each per army.

There actually is a limit. It says so just above the selection list for Relics.

One may be taken per character. No more than one of each per army.

Puscifer wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:

Only 1 relic per character so no stacking up "Reroll failed saves" with "Eternal Warrior"

I want to hear the thoughts of the veteran Dakkanauts

There's no restriction for most characters to take multiple relics. Just one of each per army.

There actually is a limit. It says so just above the selection list for Relics.

One may be taken per character. No more than one of each per army.

Where?

ECCLESIARCHY RELICS
Ecclesiarchy Relics are items of incredible rarity, holy artefacts and revered tools of destruction that the Ecclesiarchy will go to any lengths to recover and protect. Such is their spiritual provenance that they are powerful weapons in the hands of the faithful, and in extreme circumstances they will be entrusted to the warriors of the Adeptus Ministorum. Only one each of the following relics can be chosen per army

ECCLESIARCHY RELICS
A model can take one of the following. Only one of each Ecclesiarchy Relic can be taken per army

It doesn't say only one. It says can take one. Only one is very common in the dex where it says they can take only one. Also, all the entry say that they can take items from Ecclesiarchy Relics, like so:

- A Canoness may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons and Ecclesiarchy Relics lists.

Items.

Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

 curran12 wrote:
Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

Does any other codex have a one relic restriction per character?

 pretre wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

Does any other codex have a one relic restriction per character?

Space Marine and Dark Angel I believe.

Puscifer wrote:

Space Marine and Dark Angel I believe.

No they don't.

But AS book says may have one. So it's one, not two, not three, one. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I'm sort of pleased and sort of bummed out at missed opportunities here. I was hoping for some Eviscerator love but nope, just the boss lady and priests. Oh well. Reliable AoF are good, I think it will work out a bit better now.

One thing that strikes me as very strong, if subtle, is our Altar of War chart. We now roll off with our opponent and if we win we get, basically, just what we want- a mission that puts us right at our optimal range. Anyone else see this? It does make the Exorcist risky, but it makes the rest of our codex insane. I've always thought turtling a MM Retributors unit would be pretty scary, now I just might try it. Seriously, read this section, it is a game changer (so to speak).

The same is true for any other Altar of War, the missions are usually set up in fashion that the army featuring them REALLY enjoys the situation.

See the "Montka" mission in farsight to see what is a real game-changing mission.
You can reserve how many units you want, you reroll reserves, on top of that your deepstrikes and outflanks gets rerolls, deployment lines are closer then usual, you are almost assured to go first (on a 2+) and you get improved precision shots (5+)
And you win by simply getting more killpoints then there were game turns, regardless on how many losses you took.
Its the most brutal and violent mission ever seen on 40k, even real killpoints pale in comparison.

 pretre wrote:
Don't we have a thread on this? Mods close one?

I opened this one as the previous thread has 124 pages before it gets to the new Codex and I thought it would be better to have a new thread for a new Codex to avoid confusion.

 Mythantor wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Don't we have a thread on this? Mods close one?

I opened this one as the previous thread has 124 pages before it gets to the new Codex and I thought it would be better to have a new thread for a new Codex to avoid confusion.

Thank you.

Hence the reason I said to close one. Leaving this one is one but having two is silly.

I feel that people are trying to hard to keep sisters as sisters with the AoF. Imo work with what you have thats strongest, and right now you can mash the hell out of MM immos with flamer SoB inside with flamers and then doms kitted out the same and exorcists to boot. Their mech game is now insanely strong by being able to just crash gunlines with the amount of flamers they pack and then the mass MM arent to friendly either. Take a Cannoness with book for a nice cheap HQ and then slap in some priests and dozer blades to laugh at the enemy. Maybe take some repentia with the cannoness for insult to injury if you want.

TLR sisters don't need AoF as badly as everyone thinks, they aren't how they used to be so don't bother trying to keep them that way. Oh and their mechanized lists are pretty insane.

 A GumyBear wrote:
I feel that people are trying to hard to keep sisters as sisters with the AoF. Imo work with what you have thats strongest, and right now you can mash the hell out of MM immos with flamer SoB inside with flamers and then doms kitted out the same and exorcists to boot. Their mech game is now insanely strong by being able to just crash gunlines with the amount of flamers they pack and then the mass MM arent to friendly either. Take a Cannoness with book for a nice cheap HQ and then slap in some priests and dozer blades to laugh at the enemy. Maybe take some repentia with the cannoness for insult to injury if you want.

TLR sisters don't need AoF as badly as everyone thinks, they aren't how they used to be so don't bother trying to keep them that way. Oh and their mechanized lists are pretty insane.

I'm curious about this. Supposedly this edition killed Razorspam. You seem to be building the distaff version with Immospam. With the two vehicles being functionally identical but for a 6++ save on the Immo, why does Immospam work when Razorspam doesn't?

Don't look at me, I never argued that razorback spam was "killed" (or particularly overpowered in its own right).

 Melissia wrote:
Don't look at me, I never argued that razorback spam was "killed" (or particularly overpowered in its own right).

I actually had to check my post to see if I misquoted you or something! I haven't seen much evidence that razorspam no longer works either, honestly, but was curious why this was seen as such a huge positive for the AS book.