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Made in us
Repentia Mistress





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Yeah i think I'll read ti again, but it is not one per model I dont think. It says you can take ITEMS from that list. Thats plural last time I checked. Unfortunately my codex is on my Kindle and I left it in a friends car or I'd already have it looked up, but i think it ridiculous to sugest that you can have only one per model.


The thing is the restriction doesn't come from the unit entry but the relic entry itself as that governs how you may purchase wargear from that specific list.
Yeah, the Canoness "may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, and Ecclesiarchy Relics lists." So even if the rules only allowed you to take a single "item" from each of those lists, the phrasing "may take items" would still be correct.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Anybody have a points cost for the Sacred Banner of the Order Militant? It's not in the Ecclesiarchy Relics section of the ePub.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

klobbermeister wrote:
Anybody have a points cost for the Sacred Banner of the Order Militant? It's not in the Ecclesiarchy Relics section of the ePub.

It's in the Sororitas Command Squad section.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 ClockworkZion wrote:
klobbermeister wrote:
Anybody have a points cost for the Sacred Banner of the Order Militant? It's not in the Ecclesiarchy Relics section of the ePub.

It's in the Sororitas Command Squad section.


Thanks...man, the organization in the book is...well, disorganized.
   
Made in gb
Arthedainian Captive




Pavis

klobbermeister wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
klobbermeister wrote:
Anybody have a points cost for the Sacred Banner of the Order Militant? It's not in the Ecclesiarchy Relics section of the ePub.

It's in the Sororitas Command Squad section.


Thanks...man, the organization in the book is...well, disorganized.


Making an army from it is like playing a 'Choose your own adventure' book.

   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

So what I'm currently considering for a new list is just barebones as I have yet to actually get the new 'Dex

but two small Conclaves with Priests, DCA and Crusaders (I'm not sold on AC)

A 20 girl battle block lead by Uriah

season with 5 girl teams in MM Immos for tank hunting (Probably just go with Dominions here) some Mech 10 girl blocks for objective taking, and flavor with Exorcists for fire support. (I'll be needing a second Exorcist >.>; or converting one up I suppose)


What are the wargear options on priests again?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 00:25:26


I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior






Quick question I want to know if I'm missing some rule that prevents the following situation.

Priest with Eviscerator.

I use my smash abilty to get strength 6 then with the eviscerator I go to strength 10 with armourbane.

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I have a KickStarter problem. 
   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






 Madcat87 wrote:
Quick question I want to know if I'm missing some rule that prevents the following situation.

Priest with Eviscerator.

I use my smash abilty to get strength 6 then with the eviscerator I go to strength 10 with armourbane.
Yup, if you have the Eviscerator, use the Smash Battle Hymn, and make a Smash Attack, you'd be Str10, Armourbane, rerolling the Pen result.

   
Made in us
Flailing Flagellant




Texas

I know Priests are useful for their ability to be sprinkled in and buff our cc and staying power for our other units but what if we combined them together?

It's an expensive idea and probably a bad one but I find something appealing about it, and they wouldn't necessarily need to be by themselves, they could go into a 20 strong sisters unit or possibly a conclave made up of just crusaders for the lols

Getting them by themselves into combat would be hard without having meat shields in front of them (this is where crusaders or massive amounts of sisters or a vechile losing blocking would come in, they do have invuln safes but canoness can be id'd easily and priests have the same problem but only have 1 wound)

You automatically, because of litanies, obtain all war hymns in the unit but having extra priests around just to be safe would be a good idea, this'll will probably get faq'd i imagined to disallow units from benefitting from more than one war hymn at the same time but for now...

1 Unit

125
Canoness
Litanies of Faith
Rosarius
Eviserator

55
Priest
Evierserator

55
Priest
Evierserator


55
Priest
Evierserator

55
Priest
Evierserator

55
Priest
Evierserator

400 points of fun fun fun*(but really you could get a full units of vanilla terminators for this cost)

19 S6 ap 2 attacks on the charge, 3 of the priests can use smash if necessary(making fewer attacks but hey S10 attacks at ap 2) since were assuming your using the other 2 for re rolling saves and failed wounds(not likely in the first place but your other models might need the help)
   
Made in gb
Preacher of the Emperor






Manchester, UK

How's this for an ADL camping unit:

Uriah
Priest w/ litanies, condemnor
Priest w/ BosL, condemnor
Conclave w/ 7 crusaders, 3 Dca
2 Exorcists

Costs about 600 points (+ the ADL) and looks like a hell of a firebase that would be almost impossible to shift.

1500pts

Gwar! wrote:Debate it all you want, I just report what the rules actually say. It's up to others to tie their panties in a Knot. I stopped caring long ago.

 
   
Made in us
Wraith






Yah know, I hope it does get FAQd to take multiple items because it turns a bad HQ choice into something...

... Kinda Okay.

Like seriously, in a world of Buffmanders, Solitarchs/seers, Shield Eternal Iron Hands Chapter Masters, etc. the Sisters potentially having a single gross character that's not Celestine?

That's not something I see someone fighting over. I'd say tool her up and have fun. I mean, I have TWO of the ladies and I've never used them because the named characters are just too useful. And it's still that way outside of maybe a book caddy now.

Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Amerikon wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Yeah i think I'll read ti again, but it is not one per model I dont think. It says you can take ITEMS from that list. Thats plural last time I checked. Unfortunately my codex is on my Kindle and I left it in a friends car or I'd already have it looked up, but i think it ridiculous to sugest that you can have only one per model.


The thing is the restriction doesn't come from the unit entry but the relic entry itself as that governs how you may purchase wargear from that specific list.
Yeah, the Canoness "may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, and Ecclesiarchy Relics lists." So even if the rules only allowed you to take a single "item" from each of those lists, the phrasing "may take items" would still be correct.

True. But look at the Dialogus (sororitas command squad).

"The Dialogus may take items from the Ecclesiarchy Relics list."

Items. Plural. And that's the only list she gets access to. In my opinion, in the wording "A model can take one of the following," the emphasis is on "take" not on "one" in contrast to the "a model may replace. . ." wording of the melee, ranged, special, etc lists. On the other hand, just above the Relics list is the vehicle equipment list which states "A model can take up to one of each of the following." I suppose if they wanted to they could have just copied that wording for Relics. Point is, the different entries contradict each other, and this seems about as well thought out as the rest of the codex.

I've been playing sisters (40k in general actually) since just before the WD update was released. Played my first handful of games with the old 3e Witch Hunters codex, and man do I miss it. This new codex was a massive disappointment to me to say the least. Really I was just expecting them to re-release the WD article with some new pictures. I had my fingers crossed for the sort of fixes that should have been in the WD edition had it gone through any kind of peer review (only troop choice was 125 points minimum? Seriously Cruddace?). What I had NOT expected was any kind of nerf, except a probable point increase for Celestine.

Full disclosure: My primary opponent is eldar and he figured out all my tricks a long time ago. Their 6e codex is amazing, and sisters just don't have the tools to deal with the sheer amount of cheese in that book. Massed infantry is NOT the meta among the guys I play with, so those of you who really like this update are probably viewing it from a completely different place than me.

The Good: This list is short, let's start here
Spoiler:

Minimum BSS squad size cut in half. This was expected and only reasonable.
BSS keep their 2 special weapons. This surprised me. It opens up avenues for some pretty nasty spam lists. I like it.
Dominions get 4 specials in a 5 girl squad, AoF ignores cover. This is a giant middle finger to all skimmers and I love it.
Canoness gets some cool wargear, though still not as cool as 3e. I miss my jump pack.
Heavy flamers got cheaper. I was really hoping for this, but it's still surprising they actually gave it to us.
Exorcists got cheaper. If anything I thought they'd get more expensive, Exorcists are awesome.
Command Squad actually makes sense now. Still a questionable point investment though.
Battle conclaves are spammable now. That's scary.
Priests are certainly better than they were, though I'm not as fond of them as everyone else seems to be.
Immolators got a lot cheaper.
Universal Adamantine Will. Again this only makes sense. In 3e sisters could deny the witch on a 5+ before deny the witch was a thing.
Condemnor boltgun is kind of cool, I guess. I'm not that thrilled about it since eldar can ignore perils.

The Bad:
Spoiler:

Acts of Faith. Everything about them kind of sucks now. The once per game thing is total BS, and yeah, my units usually got their AoFs to work more than twice a game. About half of the specific acts didn't change. Most of the ones that did got worse (canoness, I'm looking at you).

Seraphim. I think once people actually get this army on the table, they're going to lose a lot of the love they have for seraphim hand flamers. Without reliable wound re-rolling that S3 AP6 is pretty meh. Seraphim also can't take a simulacrum so it really only is on the round they come in.

Celestine. Poor Celestine. Without EW or T4 she's just too easy to one-shot. Now that she only reses once, she's just not worth it anymore. She'll wound most infantry on a 2+ or 3+, but she lost any viability she had vs MCs. Celestine used to be my answer to wraithguard/lords. And she's more expensive, though not as expensive as I was expecting her to be.

Jacobus. The new version just can't hold a candle to what he used to be. War hymns are cool, I guess, but he just lost so much. +10 points too, because why not?

Battle conclaves can only take power swords. The axe/sword shenanigans were a hold-out from 5e. This was expected, but it still hurts.

Retributors are no longer worth bringing. The rending rule itself is pretty unreliable, and now that they only get rending once or twice they're just no longer a safe bet. And they got more expensive, by the time you're done upgrading them, you could have bought an exorcist. MM rets were always a waste. HF rets might be cool, but you can do the same thing only better with a command squad and you don't eat a slot on the FOC.

Celestians are cheaper and still pointless. Furious Charge without CC wargear: smart! I guess they can bring special weapons, but so can sister squads for 5 points less.
Repentias are cheaper and frailer. Still worthless since they probably wont make it to CC, and even if they do, they'll be dead before their initiative comes around. I'd really like these girls to be good, a full squad can put out over 40 attacks on a charge, but man, they just die too easy. Waste of points.

Penitent Engines have the same problems as repentias. They're just too frail. They're vehicles, so you can't put them in a rhino to get them where they need to be, and they don't get scout or anything fancy to help them close the distance. Big. Scary. Dead.

Across the board leadership nerfs. I don't even understand why this was necessary.

Priests. yeah war hymns are pretty cool. . . in close combat. . . 60% of the time. A priest with a battle conclave could be pretty great (60% of the time), but sororitas units by and large are WS3 S3 T3 I3. I'm sorry but stat lines like that don't belong in close combat. It's like GW wants sisters to be the new assault army without actually supporting us in assault. Also an he's an IC with the leadership of a fire warrior.

Rhino's got more expensive. I guess that was for Shield of Faith. Still bothers me though.

Veteran Superiors are back, 5 points more expensive than the 5e Sister Superiors. And unlike in C:WH they really don't do anything cool. I understand they wanted to bring sisters into line with the other MEQ armies in terms of the sergeant upgrades, but now fielding the same squad I did a week ago costs +5 points.


Missed Opportunities:

Point reductions. If a Chaos marine is 13 points, and a Tacty is 14, there's no reason a Battle Sister should be 12. If we follow the old 4 sisters for every 3 marines rule of thumb, sisters should be somewhere between 10 and 11 points. Considering all the neat toys marines just got, I'd lean towards 10.

Penitent engine should really be a monstrous creature.

Skyfire. Seriously. Skyfire.

Assault vehicles. Not surprising we didn't get one, but some of our units are really boned without one. Especially considering how hard they're pushing us towards assault now.

The Ecclesiarchy is effin' rich. Probably the richest organization in the galaxy. There's no reason sisters shouldn't get access to Artificer Armor. Or Land Raiders for that matter. We had them in 3e, why not now?

So yeah, I'm disappointed. Even a little angry. I've played one game since this wreck came out, and it didn't go so bad. I guess I'll just have to play a few more games and see what happens. Hopefully I judged too harshly.

Was that Wall of Text-y enough for a first post?
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

Wait. Is there an official model for the condemnor combiweapon?

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior






I think this is the closest to a condemnor I can see.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1140003&prodId=prod1140027a

Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Nekro, Shadowrun Returns, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games, Planetary Annihilation, Project Eternity, Distance, Dreamfall Chapters, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Consortium, Divinity: Original Sin, Smart Guys, Raging Heroes - The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy, Armikrog, Massive Chalice, Satellite Reign, Cthulhu Wars, Warmachine: Tactics, Game Loading: Rise Of The Indies, Indie Statik, Awesomenauts: Starstorm, Cosmic Star Heroine, THE LONG DARK, The Mandate, Stasis, Hand of Fate, Upcycled Machined Dice, Legend of Grimrock: The Series, Unsung Story: Tale of the Guardians, Cyberpunk Soundtracks, Darkest Dungeon, Starcrawlers

I have a KickStarter problem. 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress





Quo wrote:
A whole lot of stuff
I think you're pretty much in line with most of the other assessments of the new list. Although a leadership nerf there was not. Priests are huge leadership boosts because they're cheap and they give Fearless. Don't wanna pay 10 pts for a VSS? No problem, 25 and your scoring unit is fearless now and has to be shot down to the very last woman.

That right there flips the script for the once lowly BSS. A 20 woman squad went from ridiculous point sink to an immovable object. With War Hymns, that squad is going to be incredibly tough to take out in CC as well. If you take St. Celestine as your warlord you can use her mobility and her Ld bubble to boost your War Hymns rolls at key moments.

   
Made in gb
Preacher of the Emperor






Quo wrote:
Acts of Faith. Everything about them kind of sucks now. The once per game thing is total BS, and yeah, my units usually got their AoFs to work more than twice a game. About half of the specific acts didn't change. Most of the ones that did got worse (canoness, I'm looking at you).

I'll have to disagree about the AoFs getting worse. They're fully scaling, now. Before, we had to ration our faith points and really struggled with faith in higher point games. What's more, some units, usually Rets, always got priority for faith points, leaving other units using their AoF far less often. Now, every unit gets to use their faith power. What's more, with simulacrums and laud hailers, we have an very reliable method of letting each unit use its AoF twice per game. Basically, what we have now is more reliable, and scales.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 03:14:48


Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






war wrote:
. I guess I have an image of a pen engine running across the field with a tortured driver desperately pushing straight through a wall of enemy fire and heedless of having parts of her body getting ripped to shreds. Salvation through death, and nothing else matters.


Exalted for awesomeness. Also gross and disturbing, but hey, it's 40K. So still awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ovion wrote:
 Madcat87 wrote:
Quick question I want to know if I'm missing some rule that prevents the following situation.

Priest with Eviscerator.

I use my smash abilty to get strength 6 then with the eviscerator I go to strength 10 with armourbane.
Yup, if you have the Eviscerator, use the Smash Battle Hymn, and make a Smash Attack, you'd be Str10, Armourbane, rerolling the Pen result.


I always find this confusing.... When you have an ability/weapon that adds to Strength and one that multiplies it -- eg the Eviscerator -- which comes first? (3+1)x2 is different from (3x2)+1...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 03:22:32


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior






Treat it the same as a math problem, multiply then add, A Nob's PK on the charge goes 4 to 8 to 9.

Unless of course you are Grey Knights and don't give a feth you add then multiply, 4 to 5 to 10.

Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Nekro, Shadowrun Returns, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games, Planetary Annihilation, Project Eternity, Distance, Dreamfall Chapters, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Consortium, Divinity: Original Sin, Smart Guys, Raging Heroes - The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy, Armikrog, Massive Chalice, Satellite Reign, Cthulhu Wars, Warmachine: Tactics, Game Loading: Rise Of The Indies, Indie Statik, Awesomenauts: Starstorm, Cosmic Star Heroine, THE LONG DARK, The Mandate, Stasis, Hand of Fate, Upcycled Machined Dice, Legend of Grimrock: The Series, Unsung Story: Tale of the Guardians, Cyberpunk Soundtracks, Darkest Dungeon, Starcrawlers

I have a KickStarter problem. 
   
Made in ca
Calm Celestian




Windsor Ontario Canada

 Madcat87 wrote:
Treat it the same as a math problem, multiply then add, A Nob's PK on the charge goes 4 to 8 to 9.

Unless of course you are Grey Knights and don't give a feth you add then multiply, 4 to 5 to 10.

Or we say that grey knights use brackets. So it would go (4+1)x2 to 10.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




TX, US

Now that our troop squads no longer have the 'Regroup' AoF, what's the best way to keep them viable, especially now that MSU Immo spam will be the prevailing tactic. BoSL was good when you could get them in every squad, now only one book in the entire force doesn't convince me. Vet Supers at +10 pts for a bump to LD can get quite expensive. Any thoughts on this?

Question: Is it legal to stack two or three priests in the same unit and give the same unit 2+ war hymn abilities?
Rerolling failed saves and failed to-wound rolls could certainly help a large Sisters unit become a viable tarpit unit...

Also, the QuadGun on an ADL is a viable AA defense that doesn't seem to be getting any love. But I do agree it would have been nice to get our own Skyfire unit to even things out a bit.

 
   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight




Somewhere...beyond the Dakka...my gun is waiting for me...

 SisterSydney wrote:

I always find this confusing.... When you have an ability/weapon that adds to Strength and one that multiplies it -- eg the Eviscerator -- which comes first? (3+1)x2 is different from (3x2)+1...


Page 2 of my little rulebook here under the Models & Units page, section 'Modifiers', sub section 'Multiple Modifiers':

"If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and then finally apply any set values."


The example listed is two modifiers, '+1 Strength' and 'Double Strength' on a Strength 4 character. The formula listed is, "(4x2)+1" or Strength 9.

Looks like I was ninja'd though, so I'll just go ahead and leave this here for a full explanation and its location.

Also yeah, honestly this, like many rules in the rulebook, gets thrown out the window very regularly.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/22 04:40:59


   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress





 davidgr33n wrote:
Now that our troop squads no longer have the 'Regroup' AoF, what's the best way to keep them viable, especially now that MSU Immo spam will be the prevailing tactic. BoSL was good when you could get them in every squad, now only one book in the entire force doesn't convince me. Vet Supers at +10 pts for a bump to LD can get quite expensive. Any thoughts on this?
Priests! You don't need to worry about regrouping if you're fearless.

davidgr33n wrote:Question: Is it legal to stack two or three priests in the same unit and give the same unit 2+ war hymn abilities?
Rerolling failed saves and failed to-wound rolls could certainly help a large Sisters unit become a viable tarpit unit...
They're independent characters so there's nothing stopping you from putting 5 priests in the same unit.
   
Made in us
Wraith






I plan on making my bolt guns with Dark Eldar corsair bits, or just putting one of my Superior's belts as I have the crummy chainsword + plasma pistol ones and NONE of the bolter ones. Boo. And they are SO expensive.

Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

Sigh... Exorcist, 7 heavy weapons sisters and a sister superior, $168

T_T

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Michigan



I'm getting a dead link here, is this new for the US site? I'm assuming this was the female inquisitor with a crossbow thing?


   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

A head swap and a removal of the bustle could almost make that model palatable. (I despise it otherwise)

How is everyone doing their condemnors now? Just putting markers down or has everyone got conversions and I'm just slow on the uptake?

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Amerikon wrote:
Quo wrote:
A whole lot of stuff
I think you're pretty much in line with most of the other assessments of the new list. Although a leadership nerf there was not. Priests are huge leadership boosts because they're cheap and they give Fearless. Don't wanna pay 10 pts for a VSS? No problem, 25 and your scoring unit is fearless now and has to be shot down to the very last woman.

That right there flips the script for the once lowly BSS. A 20 woman squad went from ridiculous point sink to an immovable object. With War Hymns, that squad is going to be incredibly tough to take out in CC as well. If you take St. Celestine as your warlord you can use her mobility and her Ld bubble to boost your War Hymns rolls at key moments.



If I have to spend 10-25 points to get back to where I was, I'd call it a nerf. Also, that priest won't help you make your AoF leadership check. Fearless is one thing, but it's not all we need leadership for anymore. And, of course, they're only fearless until the priest dies. One precision shot can wreck that blob at any time. A 20 man group must run up the field, eating fire the whole way. Put the priest in the back and he's vulnerable to deep strikers and fast skimmers. Put him in the middle and you only have to shoot maybe 7-10 models to get to him. Since he's a character, in assault he MUST attempt to get into base contact. In most cases that's not a big deal, you can put the wounds on the sisters first. But it's a precarious place to be in and, again, he's WS3 T3 I3 W1.

 Troike wrote:
Quo wrote:
Acts of Faith. Everything about them kind of sucks now. The once per game thing is total BS, and yeah, my units usually got their AoFs to work more than twice a game. About half of the specific acts didn't change. Most of the ones that did got worse (canoness, I'm looking at you).

I'll have to disagree about the AoFs getting worse. They're fully scaling, now. Before, we had to ration our faith points and really struggled with faith in higher point games. What's more, some units, usually Rets, always got priority for faith points, leaving other units using their AoF far less often. Now, every unit gets to use their faith power. What's more, with simulacrums and laud hailers, we have an very reliable method of letting each unit use its AoF twice per game. Basically, what we have now is more reliable, and scales.


With the exception of your first sentence, on a technical level I agree with everything you said. Yes, AoFs are a little more likely to succeed. Yes, 1d6 for the whole army per turn was a little tight. However, only a few units actually had decent acts in 5e which meant you only needed to burn a few points each round. That meant that the few units who were really great with their acts (retributors, seraphim) continued to be great throughout the game. Honestly, with the new rules do you plan to use more than 4 acts in a round?
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






One precision shot can wreck the blob....you mean like any other blob that has a character in it that grands Ld bonuses?


And "have to spend 10-25 points to get back to where I was, I'd call it a nerf", here is a wierd idea-dont try to get to the same place!
Half the old lists were based on the fact the saint, and the HB rets were grossly undercosted, so you just spammed them. now you actually build a balanced force made out of reasonable units where you actually have multiple fair options rather then a few OP ones and multiple useless ones. cry me a river.

The old HB rets costs merely 65% of SM HB devs, and were generally stronger.
The old saint was the most powerful warlord in the entire game, held back only be a lackluster codex where no units actually worked with her.

Now? well, what do ya know-HB rets turned into actually fairly costed (minimum squad is still just 77% of the cost. with an extra banner chick you are still cheaper then devs), but on the other hand their HF became a real option, and with scary potential.

The saint? still pretty good. sure, you MIGHT one-shoot her, but she is still 2+4++, and resurrects once-more durable then most HQs. still lethal, still a CC nightmare, and still shreds infantry with her heavy flamer on a jetpack.
So she cant win a game all by herself anymore by simple making repeat suicide attacks on the enemy troops with the enemy having 0 chances to do anything about it. though luck.

Dominos got worse at flamer job, but better at melta job. great because flamers are everywhere in your codex anyway (and they are still pretty damn good with them) and cover-ignoring melta ruins the day for the scariest things around, a single volly of cover-ignoring melta will screw up anything from riptides, to WS spam, to nurgle bikers-heck even multiwound T4 guys (tiggy, crisis suits, etc) would take a beating.
But the biggest thing-4 specials in a 5 girl team, meaning even while "worse" at flamer job as their act don't even help it any more-they can bring more flamers.


Seraph became affordable, and now can not only do some damage, but the saint can get a proper escort (just LoS them ID shots, and let her tank the basic fire). still cant see much of a point in inferno pistols, but flame pistol seraphs are GOOD.

Celestians and command squads actually have a reason to be considered now.

The piano got cheaper, and lost nothing. the immo as well, and can now MM for free (so more easy S8AP1, or, if you need, some HF, or highly-accurate HB that reroll wounds.)
Lets not even get started on priests. 5 of them would be auto-take in almost any army if there was not an occasional killpoint mission. and in "any army" I mean every codex, not just any AS army.

As for the whole act of faith crisis, think back-how often did you need it more then once or twice during the entire game on a given unit?
Now, how many times you needed to use more acts then your faith roll allowed, or really had to pull of a specific one?

Bet the second case is more common then the first.
Dominions shoot once, twice at best. you are better of with the new roll making it more likely to work.
Rets don't always shoot at targets where it would even matter if you rend, they prefer to hit FW or less armored targets and do a massacre anyway.
Command team, just this once-run like the wind.
The various assault acts-you are not in assault often, but when you are they better work!
See? you either REALLY need them, or don't care. and now you wont get stuck with "I really need 4 acts, but only got 3, and they are 50% to fail"
Not to mention they actually work in bigger armies now, and there is a wide variety of AoF buffing options (from adding more acts to making them more reliable, depends o your needs. for dominos for example I'd rather be reliable then having more uses.)
You won't always need to fire 4+ acts at once, but once you do-its nice to have to option to suddenly burst with them (or even throw them all down range on T1 to deal heavy early damage). especially if your run many donimos, you no longer have to hope for a decent number of acts fro your alpha strike.

Overall, Id say the only real problems in this version is lack of AA, and the fact repentia/engines have a bit of an issue to survive their way to CC. (but once they get there, they hit HARD)
Anything else seems good, very good. properly priced, properly powered, and interesting to play with, or against. just how I like it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/22 13:04:24


can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)

AS can now 5th ed harder in 6th then anything could in 5th and still do great in 6th

People whining about AoF and saying SoB got nerfed, they didn't get nerfed they got changed. Stop trying to play SoB and start playing AS. Your old lists won't work as well because as with any new dex what's good and bad changes and you have to adapt your list to suit the changes.

Our hqs are now close to useless for actual killing power compared to other hqs so use them for utility, the Book is now back from the grave and is pretty great for only 5 points. A bare naked cannoness with the book safeguarded in an EZ-bake oven command squad is pretty useful. AoF are now more fluffy and scale beteen high and low point games much better now (because seriously, why would a squad of rets be praying that hard the entire fight but everybody else is ignored). What was great is now better due to points drops, and what was silly broken got scaled down a bit *cough celestine *cough.

Currently the best build for AS is immo spam because they are so darn cheap for what they give you. Backed up by exorcists you should easily be able to melt most armies (except IG because manticore and cron air because sisters can't eat croissants since they are heresy but the TL MMs should start to do damage eventually and can block their movement easy with the mass of tanks).

Overall sisters got better since they don't have to pay for expensive BSS and have more consistent AoF along with much needed point decreases. Sure they need a bit of AA but they will have to deal with it (I haven't seen many fliers with eldar and tau around now)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 14:40:48


"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War

"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."

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Pious Palatine






Priests are indeed and answer to the no longer regroup AoF problem on our bss. Since MSU is a great option now do we auto include priests in all the MSUs? Fearless is pretty nice and the priest can be utilised to hopefully gt re-rolls on armour saves, furher extending th staying power of the small squads but we'r taking all our AoF tests on an 8 which isn't that reliable, Loud Hailer on dedicated transports can help but at 10 pts a pop the cost starts adding up, and this is befre we've given our priests wargear (mauls are the clear winner here).

I have costed it up yet but I Think a mix of large durable units and small to mediumsized units eith a significant mech element is he way to go. I haven't priced it up yet but I'm toying with 2x5 bss, 1x10 bss and 1x20 bss. MM immos for the t's, a rhino for the 10 and the 20 will be foot slogging, might still buy a immo for them purely as an additional tl mm. Thoughts?

D
   
 
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