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I think Sisters will be a good counter-balance to the current / prevailing meta of large squads and low-count mech. The question is: is being the antithesis of the meta a good thing?
I personally rather like giving the opponent so many targets that it rankles him. As Stalin once said, "there's a certain quality in quantitiy". In 2000 points I have been able to get in 55 Sisters with 20 flamers plus a condemnor-boltgun Canoness, 11 Immolators (MM) and 3 Exorcists, and an ADL with QuadGun. Obviously this can cause parking lot nightmares, but splitting the force into two aggressive flank attacks will cause many headaches.
quiestdeus wrote: That is exactly what people used to do with IG blobs and Jacobus and it was very effective. I see no reason why it still would not be, it only seems to have gotten better with counter attack (allowing you to stand there and rapidfire into something and STILL get the benefit of a charge), a 3+ save versus shooting, and more, higher strength AP hits once you get into CC.
IG get more bodies at the same points, so nearly 300 points using IG goes further than the same only using Battle Sisters. Not to mention orders, and and their ability to mass heavy weapons that severely out range the ones Sisters can purchase.
davidgr33n wrote: I think Sisters will be a good counter-balance to the current / prevailing meta of large squads and low-count mech. The question is: is being the antithesis of the meta a good thing?
I think it's a good thing. I'm hopeful that it will promote a growth in tournament lists rather than the same spam over and over again. Even with the relatively low popularity it's possible that AS players can throw a wrench in the scene. Much like DE do. They're the kind of army that can cause some surprising upsets. Unfortunately due to the nature of Tesla Destructors and the cheap spam ability, it'll be hard for that to be reflected in Necron tournament lists, but for Eldar and Tau, I think it will help. The question is can we get enough AS players in major tournaments to become more than just upstarts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/24 00:40:53
quiestdeus wrote: That is exactly what people used to do with IG blobs and Jacobus and it was very effective. I see no reason why it still would not be, it only seems to have gotten better with counter attack (allowing you to stand there and rapidfire into something and STILL get the benefit of a charge), a 3+ save versus shooting, and more, higher strength AP hits once you get into CC.
IG get more bodies at the same points, so nearly 300 points using IG goes further than the same only using Battle Sisters. Not to mention orders, and and their ability to mass heavy weapons that severely out range the ones Sisters can purchase.
Absolutely true with respect to weapons, but the bodies are a wash given the improved Sister save. 20 plain Sisters is 240, which is slightly more than 30 guard and 3 axes (counting the mandatory PCS). Obviously theory hammering pretty hard now, but I think they will come up pretty even (if not better).
Going to see how pure Sisters does against cron-air this weekend, I am very excited to tarpit some wraiths and see what happens!
Going against Dark angels terminator army tomorrow night, so ill post results and lists after the match. pretty excited even if some people at my club says digital codex's are illegal
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So I finally got a litle test in with my old sisters list with a few monor additions - I actually did not need many. I found that a large sisters blob moving forward with all the buffs - preferred enemy, fearless, decent saves, hit and run, acts of faith, etc., was very hard for my opponent to deal with when all the other facets of my army also threatened. The AGL/Venedetta/Officer of the Fleet combo was quite good eliminating other flyers as well and could hurt ground forces too. Overall I'm leased with the new sisters. It seems we have lost little and still can ally with IG for a decent list.
Spoiler:
uriah 100
st. celestine 135
2x priests, 3 plasma 80
20 sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, combi-flamer (uriah/celestine) 280
2x 5 sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, combi-flamer, immolator, tlmm (plasma priest each here) 290
2x exorcists 250
- that is 1135 -
Now add just enough IG to get a few Vendettas - you have 600+ points to play with.
command squad, officer of the fleet, 4 melta, chimera, heavy flamer, multilaser 175
platoon 180
1*platoon command squad, autocannon
2* infantry squad, autocannon
2* vendetta 260
- that is 615 -
AGL, quad autocannons 100
(1850)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/24 03:17:44
i was impressed that 10 battle sisters, a canoness, and a priest was able to tie up my thunderwolves for 3 game turns. by the end, they used up all their "to hit" rerolls and their armor rerolls test failed, so things weren't looking good for them.
in the end of the relic mission, the sisters couldn't keep their relics, so the space wolves won
I think we can all agree, then, that while Sisters can't do much damage in close combat, Priests make them INCREDIBLY durable.
I'm rather tempted now to try 20 Sisters with Celestine and Jacbos myself. I'm still keen to do some experimenting as well with Repentias, Penitent Engines and Celestians (speaking of Celestians...do people see ANY use for them, at all?)
BTW, rule question, but doe anyone know if Uriah's aura/the Banner of Ophelia work from inside a transport?
Recently, I realized that all the Crusader power weapons were locked to swords. I was sad, not because I was going to build some axe wielders (I was, so I guess they'll get GKDCA now...), but that I bought the Mordheim Sisters of Sigmar to be my battle conclave for fluff games:
I even lucked into one of the Augurs, which is one of the rarer for the set.
I then felt bad that now I had to buy some new flagellant warband guys, having used the last to make bolter acolytes for my GK tournament list, for some new priests. Then I felt amazing when I realized that my mace wielding sisters of sigmar are now ecclesiarchy priests with power maces already! I already own my five priests!
I will get a game in on Friday, probably. At 1500, I will definitely try the 20 girls + 5 priests + Jacobus blob. Sillystine will still lead her Seraphim to battle because I love those girls too much.
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: I think we can all agree, then, that while Sisters can't do much damage in close combat, Priests make them INCREDIBLY durable.
I'm rather tempted now to try 20 Sisters with Celestine and Jacbos myself.
I have been toying with this blob build for days now, but in the end I think it's a massive points sink for a single unit: nearly 300 points (costs of Jacobus, Celestine and two priests) into a unit of 20 Sisters (250 points with a couple of flamers) for a single unit of I3 T3 1A. Yes, 5++ is nice with re-rollable saves and HnR (so yes it's durable), but how often will any saavy opponent actually LET you run into them with this thing? And all that mainly just to get Celestine into combat? It's too expensive!
Our strengths lie in small units with dual-specials / dirt cheap MM Immolators / and the best support tank in the game for its points - the Exorcist.
BS4 Sisters with bolters, power armor and a transport are best at one thing: getting into range as quickly as possible and shooting. Leave Celestine at home, bring a bare-bones HQ and do your best to overwhelm your opponent with good old-fashioned butt-kicking nuns-with-guns shooting.
I think that's our best chance for a truly competitive build.
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: I think we can all agree, then, that while Sisters can't do much damage in close combat, Priests make them INCREDIBLY durable.
I'm rather tempted now to try 20 Sisters with Celestine and Jacbos myself.
I have been toying with this blob build for days now, but in the end I think it's a massive points sink for a single unit: nearly 300 points (costs of Jacobus, Celestine and two priests) into a unit of 20 Sisters (250 points with a couple of flamers) for a single unit of I3 T3 1A. Yes, 5++ is nice with re-rollable saves and HnR (so yes it's durable), but how often will any saavy opponent actually LET you run into them with this thing? And all that mainly just to get Celestine into combat? It's too expensive!
Our strengths lie in small units with dual-specials / dirt cheap MM Immolators / and the best support tank in the game for its points - the Exorcist.
BS4 Sisters with bolters, power armor and a transport are best at one thing: getting into range as quickly as possible and shooting. Leave Celestine at home, bring a bare-bones HQ and do your best to overwhelm your opponent with good old-fashioned butt-kicking nuns-with-guns shooting.
I think that's our best chance for a truly competitive build.
An IG/Sisters player did well at Feast Open (Top 10 well) with blobs, 2 Avenger Strike Fighters, ADL, 10 Ladies, and burying Celestine in a guard blob. He also had those guard defense platforms of broken-ness (TLLC with interceptor and skyfire for dirt cheap... with an Av value... 6 of them!).
I imagine a take on the same army would work. I will be tempted to proxy my Vendetta as an ASF just for funsies.
Yes but that was 2 minimal squads of Sisters to get Celestine. The difference is that you can get a 50man blob of IG for the same cost as a 20 (wo)man blob of Sisters, and the IG blob will have much more offensive power than the 20 Sisters. The IG blob + Celestine will be fearless with HnR, and since it has a larger footprint it can get to more opponents and take advantage of HnR no matter which part of the blob makes contact.
IG's advantage is numbers and cheap mech support. We have a mono-build mech support, whereas IG can diversify its mech support.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I am going to wait a bit and see if they correct some of the mistakes and formatting issues before buying the codex. So far it looks different not bad. Having a different way to play the army is great and is a breath of fresh air.
The formatting is mostly people using crappy ereader programs. I wouldn't sweat it that much. Looks great in Adobe Digital Editions.
I also purpose a contest for who can put the most special weapons vs model count competitive list. It looks like we can spam melta's and flamers hardcore now
That's easy:
Canoness with SCS (5 girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 240
Canoness with SCS (5 girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 240
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
I'm gonna try the blob tonight hopfully. Gonna have Jaco and one priest in there with 20 girls. Fearless with qa 5++ should be difficult to move of an objective, obviously they'll really shine if they get into combat and tie something nasty up. We'll see. Might go in at 1000 pts at first as I don't have enough immos for my 1500pt list.
Why are so many sister players complaining about IG being better when IG are battle brothers?
IG and AS go together like peanut butter and jelly.
They also don't need much from each other. An allied IG force org is enough to slip in a vendetta, tank or artillery squad, CCS, and 2 power blobs. Points run out faster than force org.
If IG is primarI y All IG really needs is Jacobus & some priests with an exorcist, dominion, and bss squad as icing on the cake.
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
Got monstered last night by Eldar - mainly due to horrible dice.
Started badly with deployment on short table edges, then he siezed the Initiative.........then my remaining two Exorcists fired 8 missiles at the Wraith Knight standing in the open and did Zero damage, as did the 6 melta shots at it.......it went downhill from there
Last Turn got some luck back when he tried to kill my command squad and rolled huge amount of 6+ saves to keep them alive - as were two sisters in single combat with the Wraith Knight.
However did melta the Farseer with the Cannoness and her Dominons ignoring its cover save so I figure Killing the Xenos Witch made it a fine moral victory
We both had good fun - especially when I suggested that this time we would put warheads on the missiles (they also did no damage)
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Started badly with deployment on short table edges, then he siezed the Initiative.........then my remaining two Exorcists fired 8 missiles at the Wraith Knight standing in the open and did Zero damage, as did the 6 melta shots at it.......it went downhill from there
Yeah, that's rough. Nothing you can do when the dice gods decide it is not your day!
My one problem with the new 'dex is that they lowered Jacobus leadership to 9. I always played him as my warlord ( and I love his new warlord trait) but now if I have the saint or a cannones, he can never be the warlord! I miss his leadership 10.... It knda hurts they lowered his stats and increase his points. Still trying to make my old list work...
schadenfreude wrote: Why are so many sister players complaining about IG being better when IG are battle brothers?
IG and AS go together like peanut butter and jelly.
They also don't need much from each other. An allied IG force org is enough to slip in a vendetta, tank or artillery squad, CCS, and 2 power blobs. Points run out faster than force org.
If IG is primarIy All IG really needs is Jacobus & some priests with an exorcist, dominion, and bss squad as icing on the cake.
Some of us don't want to use allies though, but that's a different topic.
I don't know if anyone brought this up yet but. Taking repentia now seems desirable if you add Uriah with them in a Rhino or a repressor.
That's a 10 model squad with 8 models having 2 base attacks each at STr6 AP1 that get to reroll a 5+ invuln save and get 2 uses of their act of faith that consist of a 3+FNP.
With all those invuln and FNP saves that most of those S6 AP1 eviscerators will swing and get to reroll misses at WS4 with the Hatred Special rule.
Problem is that if someone blows up your rhino, the girls are going to be in for a world of hurt. This is probably the only squad in the codex I'd concider putting in a repressor.
They have multiple problems. Even with Uriah, you don't have a plan to assault things. They lose fleet and no one is going to assault them, they are going to torrent them down.
As for Repressors, I would still put units in Repressors since they are so damn good.
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Repentia are less desirable since they can't charge the turn they get out of the vehicle, and the loss of FnP makes them more likely to do to S5 and down weapons. Even with Jacobus support they are -hurting- right now.
"They'll torrent them down" seems like an absurd statement, and applies to every unit. Better not play 40k, you'll just get torrented down. Actually, that's probably a true statement. Let's just all forget all this tactica nonsense and spam riptides until GW nerfs them to force people to buy other armies. Then we can go play warmachine instead.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/24 14:28:05
dadakkaest wrote: "They'll torrent them down" seems like an absurd statement, and applies to every unit. Better not play 40k, you'll just get torrented down. Actually, that's probably a true statement. Let's just all spam riptides until GW nerfs them.
Dude. Get over yourself and take the feedback as given. Here, let me elaborate:
The Repentia get into a rhino with Jacobus. That's 8 Repentia, a Mistress and Jacobus.
You find a tasty unit to assault. you disembark right in front of the enemy or maybe even behind a rhino.
You now have 8 5++ wounds, 1 3+ Wound and 3 4+ wounds. You're not going to survive to get into assault. 1 Squad of Tac Marines with 8 bolters and some other stuff? We'll say 16 Bolters, 12 Hit, 8 Wound. 5 Dead repentia. From one squad of Marines. They are just too fragile to sit in front of the army and hope to make it into assault.
Not having a delivery system for the unit is a huge problem for Repentia.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/24 14:30:00
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Pretre is pretty much right here. I can maaaybe see them being useful in counter-assaults in a blob army.
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dadakkaest wrote: So the only viable army list appears to be. snip Exciting and dynamic.
Are you just looking to argue with people? You obviously haven't read a darn thing we have said without trying to take offense. I'll assume you just haven't read the thread and spell it out:
Right now there seem to be a few good builds: - Immolator Spam, as you mentioned. - Mixed Mech with Firebase - Big Sister Squads with Uriah Priest Support - IG Ally Shenanigans (Priests, Uriah, Celestine or Command Squads) - Arco Spam (Not sure if this is 'good' yet, but we'll find out) with any of the others as support.
And we're about a week in, so haven't seen everything yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/24 14:38:46
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Black Templars 4000 
Mechanicus
Deathwing
