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@Schadenfreude

Thanks for the support! We felt we hit the right note between price, quality, ease of use and storage and portability.

Glad you like them!

As for Space mats, that is by far the most popular request and we plan on running with it, it is just a matter of when.

And you said it, people are making (IMO) a bigger deal about the streets' direction that is warranted. For one, streets create fire lanes no matter what direction they run, for two, I have never seen a table that didn't have fire lanes. However, everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion.

And yes, with buildings on this mat, it will look BOSS! I can't wait to get those pics out there.

@Silent25

We have a lot of ideas on the consideration list but that is a good one and we will certainly add it to the list. If it proves to be popular, we will certainly give it a go! Maybe with some cool island terrain, too? Who knows, but cool suggestion, thanks.

@Anpu-adom

You beat me to the punch

Yes, we got the Urban mats done, I will post the official text on it in a sec, but thanks for the support and the post!

@Kroothawk

Diagonal streets create fire lanes, too, of course. They just run at different angles which will have a different impact based on the deployment and game being played.

As stated, cities have streets, hahaha, so, it kind of goes with the territory. Also, we intentionally created sections in the middle of the table to offset terrain so that you can stagger terrain to offset that.

As stated, a lot of games use 4x4' mats: Warmachine, Hordes, Infinity, Malifaux (3x3' also for them), X-Wing, etc. There are a lot of games out there besides 40K =)

@Alphariuus

Yes, the 4x4' mats have been pushed forward! It's a bit of a financial risk for us but we're running hot and want to keep the momentum so we decided to take go for it with the smaller mats! We think the community will be happier for that.

I believe fully that the Urban Combat mats are going to not only be the most popular in terms of sales figures, but a blast to play on. Your opinion may differ of course and that is fine, but I really, really don't think the angle of the roads is as big of a deal as some feel they are. YMMV, of course. With perpendicular roads, two mats can be placed in contact with one another to create a bigger table where the roads meet, the mark deployment zones, and look great, if I do say so myself.

And hopefully this is successful? We've already doubled our funding goals and are continuing to climb so I think it is reasonably safe to assume that the success of the venture, at least financially, is not in question =P Considering we also are partnered with a company that has a partner in China with 3 years of manufacturing experience and that we are keeping a tight rein on production schedules, this is a very safe bet.

And, if you really want to see those angled roads, instead of putting down our baby (you mean man! ) pledge in to make it a reality! I have found that is a lot more effective strategy than complaining!

@Thread

The wait is over, Urban Combat is here! This Mega Mat is sure to be very popular. It is extremely detailed, these pictures are only at a quarter resolution. At full res, you can actually read the headlines on the newspapers that litter the battlefield! There are all manor of characterful images such as burning flares, tread marks, cracked cement, etc. that bring the scene to life and add a new level of immersion to your games!

This Mega Mat is not only good looking, but extremely functional. It allows you to place buildings in a number of locations where they will be framed by the streets and sidewalks. Also, the graphics on the mat can be used as areas of terrain themselves or they can be covered by buildings or other pieces of terrain to alter the way it looks! We designed it so that you could alter the placement of buildings and terrain on the mat so that the layout of the city would change from game to game. You can for example, cover the park areas to have a totally urban environment, or leave some or all of them exposed to mix it up. This allows a lot of variety in game play. As soon as possible, we will post pics with buildings on an actual mat as this one really comes to life with terrain on it, it looks smashing when set up!

The streets are wide enough for 28mm tank vehicles to move along and look like they fit properly, and the sidewalks also, are scaled for infantry sized 28mm models.

We've also put visual indicators on the Urban Combat mat to show you where deployment zones are for popular wargames. See if you can spot them all! Also, please note that the "Urban Combat" Watermarks on the image are not on the actual gaming mat, and the Frontline Gaming and Tablewar logos pictures on the sample images are shown to watermark the images and do not appear on the actual gaming mat as shown in the images.

We think you'll be thrilled with the Urban Combat Mega Mat as we are! We can't wait to get a game in on this bad boy.

I might be a little late to this part of the conversation too but, that logo in the Urban Combat mock up isn't show at actual size, is it?

No, it's just a water mark =)

The mats do have logos on them though, just to be sure that is clear, but they are TINY. Check out the first page for a scale comparison.

Hidden in the quoted text above it's mentioned that they're just watermarks for these pics, Alph, not on the actual product.

The closeups look good, but the symmetrical layout isn't what I'd have gone for. So, this is not something that tempts me, but I'm looking forward to seeing the diagonal streets if that unlocks.

Same here - and thanks for the clarification!

Hey fellas, pretty sure we're all clear on your stance on the street thing, haha, you're said it enough times! You are entitled to your opinions for sure, but it would be cool if you guys just let it go at this point. If it's not for you, that is totally fine, we never expected everyone to like them all, but we worked very hard on this and it is a great product. It would be a bummer for your negativity to influence others that may have otherwise been very happy with it, you know? No need to beat a dead horse.

Thanks!

Negativity?

Hahahahaha - I'm not seeing that here but, OK?

Reecius, if you post on a forum you're going to get mixed reviews, there was nothing "negative" in my post at all! I think the design is too symmetrical (regardless of being slanted or straight!) and I am fully within my rights to say so!

You may want to take a look at the Battle Systems kickstarter and how they interacted with folks making suggestions... it's very different from how you are doing it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560585.page

No matter how many times you try to brush off people's reviews, they have every right to post them and will continue to do so here and on any other public forum. Seriously man, how did you get "negativity" from my posting this?

 RiTides wrote:
The closeups look good, but the symmetrical layout isn't what I'd have gone for. So, this is not something that tempts me, but I'm looking forward to seeing the diagonal streets if that unlocks.

You seem to think anything that isn't a glowing review is off-topic, but it's not... not only is your urban layout straight along with the board edges, it is symmetrical from one side to the other. I don't know why you can't listen to any feedback at all, but it is a major turnoff here, and certainly isn't helping you market this. Better to not say anything, but MUCH better to actually listen to what people are saying after you show images.

This is generally how Kickstarters work, as opposed to preorders- there is give and take between the creator and backers, and the best projects use that feedback to their advantage rather than viewing it as an obstacle to overcome. I'll be interested to hear if other people like the symmetrical layout, and hopefully you are, too.


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Edit: Even Games & Gears, who did not do a ton of listening to feedback, are modifying their fantasy streets layout after a lot of folks posted the same feedback. I also would like to point out that you are trying to squash discussion both before AND after showing pics of the urban streets. I don't know why, how will you ever get a handle on what people are looking for if you do that?

I actually like this mat the best of those shown so far, but would have preferred the roads coming on from the long edges to not line up with one another to create such obvious fire lines. It's actually much more symmetrical than I had anticipated. This is worth discussion, and if you can't handle discussing your own product you really shouldn't be participating in the thread! People are going to talk about the layout now that it's been shown, and it's 100% on-topic. I just don't know why you can't seem to let the discussion happen about it, and maybe even learn something from it about what your customers are looking for.

Do others not agree that the roads coming on from the long edge would be better staggered, rather than lining up with the ones on the other side? Even if this is done to make deployment easier, I think other markers would have been better as after playing on this a few times, the symmetrical layouts are going to get frustrating, I think.

Not trying to be negative at all, just giving my honest opinion! No need for you to reply to it, I'm looking for other's thoughts on this as much (or even more) than your own...

@Alpharius and RiTides

Perhaps negative was too strong of a word, I wasn't trying to attack anyone. You guys have both said some positive things about the mats which we appreciate, thank you. And I know you are offering criticism with the intent to help, which is also appreciated.

I just started to get a bit tired of hearing the same thing from the same people is all, which you guys can hopefully understand. =) We are reacting to the input too, and plan on bringing out an angled road in time, but we can't alter our production schedule as we plan on having these mats in peoples hands within 2 months of funding! That is killer! A lot of KSs don't get product to their funders for 6 months or more!

And trust me, i write for BoLS, I am all too familiar with strong criticism when you put yourself out there online! hahah, it goes with the territory, but that also doesn't mean the person who speaks has to passively take the reactions, you know? As you stated, a Forum may provide critiques, which is fine, but as you say I should be prepared for that, then so should you be prepared to evoke a response from those you critique =) What's good for the goose is good for the gander and that expectation should go both ways.

Anyway, enough on this topic, the input is appreciated guys, this is my baby and perhaps I got a little defensive and for my part, I apologize. I hope you fellas support the KS and have a ton of fun gaming on the Mats!

Well I appreciate the reply, as well as the PMs talking it over. I think I actually see where you're coming from pretty well now, and that it just might not have been being communicated. I also mentioned that I was coming off of a recent campaign with the Warboard, which is similar in both product and timeline, and took TONS of feedback onboard! But I understand every project isn't the same, and I'll definitely be considering the space mat when it unlocks here

Speaking of that, could you explain why there's the large gap from the 45K themes to the 75K space theme? I am sure there is a good reason, I just didn't see what that was (maybe the earlier themes are already partially funded outside the KS, and thus being pro-rated and didn't need to raise as much).

Also if you are able to show a sketch of the angled roads before committing to the design I'm sure a ton of folks would love to see it

How many Rhinos wide are those roads?

Can we get a new mat design that's just the logo?

 Alpharius wrote:
I might be a little late to this part of the conversation too but, that logo in the Urban Combat mock up isn't show at actual size, is it?

Don't be absurd Alpha. Of course it won't have the logo in that size. It will have "Urban Combat Close-Ups" plastered all over it though.

Huh. One of those close-ups seems to have a full grid laid out, across both sidewalk and building "footprint"; are those 1" squares? (Pre-6e 40k, in the dark times before pre-measuring, that would have been a serious problem, as would the roads of uniform width & separation; I don't know if that affects utility for any other game system.)

When it comes time to do space, I'd suggest just searching the high-res archives of Hubble imagery. You're not going to beat out Nasa on designs, and those are all public-domain images.

@RiTides

Glad we were able to get on the same page, it is easy to misunderstand one another on-line.

It is difficult to compare one project to another as they are so different in so many ways. It isn't just the product itself but how and where it is made, who is in the decision making process, etc. Every KS really is a unique beast.

As for the big gap, we don't want to over-commit on production. Our design team is pushing it hard to get the mats we already have committed to done, and we don't want to say we will unlock a mat and then hit the goal and be unable to deliver before the KS ends! Haha, that would be really bad.

We plan on supporting this after the KS, this isn't a one shot deal. However, if we hit those big numbers, we can afford to take more money out of our own pockets to hire additional artists to speed up the process.

Sketches can be made available, but I don't want to give a hard and fast yes right now to that as we have a lot on our plate at present! haha

@Cyporiean

IRRC, 2 Rhinos should be able to just pass one another, I believe the roads are 6" wide, that was in the design specs, but as soon as I get the final dimensions from the artists, I will post that up.

@HBMC

Hahahaha, yes, it will have a giant block of text all over it =P

And a giant logo mat? Done! Weeee! What fun to play on a billboard! haha

@Jathkin

Great idea on the Hubble images! We will definitely look into that.

And yes, I believe the final image has 1" squares which can allow for pre-measuring in certain games, but hey, hard to make a sidewalk without squares

I think urban mat looks great!

Thank you, sir! I love it, the detail on it at full res is so crazy! The little details really bring it to life it is awesome!

Oh, and Barren Wasteland was unlocked!

Alpine image to be up this week, Barren Wasteland next week!

 Alpharius wrote:
I might be a little late to this part of the conversation too but, that logo in the Urban Combat mock up isn't show at actual size, is it?

I also hope that the big white "Urban Combat" text will get smaller on the end product

That said, I would prefer the diagonal street map to have a more complex system of streets, you know, more like an old town center than like LA, to create interest and kill obvious lines of fire.

Good to see that there are details in the close up pics that were not present in the overall pic. Can't have enough small details like sewer covers and tyre marks on a city map.

Kind of a silly question: if I pledge for an urban mat now, but the diagonal opens up later... will I need to change my pledge or will I simply be asked to choose with one I wanted?

Reason I ask, is that I will be traveling quite a bit this month and may not be able to manage my pledge as we get close to end date.

Thanks, awesome stuff!

I think he said that a diagonal mat would be post-kickstarter.

rigeld2 wrote:
I think he said that a diagonal mat would be post-kickstarter.

Its the $80K funding goal

Then I'm dumb and you should ignore me :p

rigeld2 wrote:
Then I'm dumb and you should ignore me :p

I've sigged this for future posterity

@Kroothawk

Yeah, it is crazy detailed! You can read the Newspapers on the full res image!

And for this one we wanted to make the streets able to match up with other mats so you could make them bigger for games of apoc, for example.

For the Diagonal mat I think that is a great idea to have streets going every which way as they don't need to match up with other mats. That creates a less symmetrical image.

Thanks for the suggestion!

@Lobukia

Yes, you can get any map you want that is unlocked once we fund! Just be aware that for February shipment, you need to grab an "early bird" pledge.

We may lower that goal if we feel confident we can get the same quality art done faster. Stay tuned and thanks for the feedback!

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I might be a little late to this part of the conversation too but, that logo in the Urban Combat mock up isn't show at actual size, is it?

I also hope that the big white "Urban Combat" text will get smaller on the end product

Hilarious.

Really.

Anyway...

Looking forward to seeing renders of the recently unlocked stuff - I hope there's one in there that will fit what I'm looking for!

 Reecius wrote:
For the Diagonal mat I think that is a great idea to have streets going every which way as they don't need to match up with other mats. That creates a less symmetrical image.

Thanks for the suggestion!

@Lobukia

Yes, you can get any map you want that is unlocked once we fund!

We may lower that goal if we feel confident we can get the same quality art done faster. Stay tuned and thanks for the feedback!

Sounds excellent, Reecius

These mats look awesome. Unfortuantely I'm strapped for cash at the moment.

@Reecius
Do you know what the price break is going to be after the Kickstarter?

@Alpharius

Alpine will be done this week! A lot of people are excited to see it and myself too as, selfishly, my Eldar are snow based and I want to use them on it!

@RiTides

Thanks!

@Thatguyoverthere

Not certain on the MSRP at this point, it will depend on shipping actual once we get them in our hands with packaging. Sorry I can't be more specific.

Glad you like them!

@Thread

Hey guys, here is a breakdown of how the Urban Combat mat shows you deployment zones as well as measurements on the mat.

Neat!

For those that are still in the design phase, could you add some notable rocks or something at the points where the diagonal deployment zones intersect the map edge? It doesn't need to give a line on the entire zone edge, but just marking the end points would be a major time-saver.

 Reecius wrote:
@Alpharius

Hey guys, here is a breakdown of how the Urban Combat mat shows you deployment zones as well as measurements on the mat.

Hello,
is there /is it possible to have some small marks on the side to mark the vangard deployement zones? The diagonal is usefull, but it's more the deployment zones that are difficult to figure...

Thanks!