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2014/07/16 16:37:56
Subject: Re:1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
I'm sorry for not being prompt on the pre-game thoughts. I do have some post-game thoughts though.
I really screwed up this game. I was unsatisfied with the result. Had my broadsides survived another turn, it would have been great. Not rushing the bomb up the board was a mistake too. I feel like although the score was very one sided, I think it was improvement. By having such a lack of troops, I was banking on scoring the Primary, and that's how I would win. Had I rushed the bomb up, it would have caused a big problem in jy2s deployment zone. Not getting the consolidation was really terrible. From turn 2 or 3 on I knew I was going to just barely hang in there and just try to pull one out. The next time I play Jim's Nids will be the time I finally beat him. Although I did lose again, this was one of my most valuable learning experiences. A few weeks ago against Spam Adams I got crippled after I was seized on, I conceded on turn 3. Stay with it this game and not giving up, I'm proud of myself. Had it gone to turn 7 there was a chance for me to get tabled too, so turn 6 is where I had to grab it. Its always a fun game against jy2, and I appreciate the time he has spent making me a better young 40k player.
2014/07/16 18:09:06
Subject: Re:1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
This battle seemed to me to be pretty typical of a Farsight bomb vs Tyranids battle.
I believe it could have been closer if you had gone with sky rays for AA instead of missile broadsides. Reason being: (I just found this out actually) that you can fire all 6 of your seeker missiles into one flying monstrous creature if you stay stationary. 6 Str 8 ap 3 missiles= one dead flying bastard! Plus the sky ray comes with a velocity tracker and bs 4 so it hits on 3+'s. I believe two of them would be ideal against Tyranids as they can bring a lot of flyers and a whole lot of monstrous creatures!
I think 1 full unit of missile broadsides with missile drones is good enough to satisfy the heavy support slots. I think interceptor would be better on them as they have so many shots that they are bound to hit flyers even without velocity trackers (which in my mind are a waste of points on anything but riptides) and with interceptor they can get rid of deep striking ripper swarms or flyers that come back on the table. And personally I would like to add: Boo proxies! But in any case good game on both sides. I am interested to hear of what the Farsight squad had on for the pure tide engram chip. Also as I said 18 fire warriors? They would be better off dead before shooting at something.
I would have gone with two units of Kroot instead. Outflank them for late game objective grabbing or securing. The riptide looked like it did some damage though. I don't really like the HBC but how did it perform? I actually recently played a game against 7th Ed Tyranids and had a game that was closer than this but I still lost. It was very similar to this game actually. Playing almost the same exact list on both sides. Pretty much everything except the Farsight bomb got locked in close combat and destroyed like in this game. I'm thinking of making a list that deals more with hit and run tactics, as well as a more secure fire base to rely upon.
Anyways hope to see more of these games jy2!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 18:10:02
FOR THE GREATER F-ING GOOD!
2014/07/16 20:53:11
Subject: 1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
I would also probably have started the bomb on the board personally. Will shadowsun giving them a 3d6" jump move they can get around pretty fast. Just have to ensure a couple of the suits have MPs so they can start contributing from afar.
Armies: Crimson Fists, Orks, Eldar
2014/07/16 22:26:36
Subject: 1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
Good game. That Mawloc had a blinder. Sending him into the naughty corner each time... was that the right call to make? Or would it be better to leave it closer to try and take it out so it isn't a threat any more.
I guess with the target saturation it is probably best to get it out of the way.
Thanks for sharing the batrep... look forward to the third match that is going to be won by Tau apparently
Hive Fleet Ngaro 4800 points
Cult of the Red Saviour 1700 points
Zerg Infested Terrans 2300 points
This matchup was actually quite scary for my bugs. Fortunately for me, my opponent decided to reserve his deathstar. That actually gave me 2 turns of breathing room. That meant that I had 2 turns of shooting (since I went 1st) to deal with his units on the table. I just needed to "diminish" his broadsides offensive capabilities and then it wouldn't be as bad when his bomb came in. Well, my initial shooting sucked big time, but then my mawloc saved the day when he came in on Turn 2 by taking out a unit of broadsides. As a matter of fact, I would say that the mawloc was my MVP this game, killing 1 unit of broadsides and a handful of suits.
Also of note this game was my psychic powers. They were instrumental in this game. I pinned 1 unit of broadsides. I then reduced his riptide to BS 0 for a turn. Most importantly, I also pinned his deathstar for a turn, thus saving my flyrants and also setting his deathstar up to get hit by my mawloc once again.
I was very impressed by the Farsight-bomb. The broadsides didn't do much, but the bomb over-achieved once again. Even by snap-firing, it was responsible for the deaths of all 3 of my flyrants, my bastion and the venomthrope and for causing a number of wounds to my other FMC's. If I were to run Tau, the Farsight-bomb would be how I would run them. It is an extremely effective deathstar and in my 2 games against it (using Necrons and Tyranids), so far it has killed its weight in gold and then some.
I felt that I made 2 mistakes in this game, though they weren't anything major. One of the mistakes was when my flyers came in, I should have pushed them more aggressively upfield. But by playing them more conservatively, I missed an opportunity to vector-strike the bomb a turn earlier. The 2nd mistake was when my mawloc came up the 2nd time. I should have centered the blast on the "buffsuit". Sure I wouldn't have killed as many models had I done that, but I would have gotten rid of the unit's ability to re-roll hits, ignore cover, re-roll wounds due to Monster Hunter and to Hit-&-Run out of combat. That would have been a game changer and my flyrants would have probably survived had that unit lost its star player.
As for my opponent, his main mistake was in not playing his deathstar aggressively enough IMO. I can't really blame him though because you need the experience to know when you need to push forwards and when you need to stay back. Unfortunately, you just need to pay your dues to "acquire" this type of experience, and usually you pay for it with the game. But I am sure my opponent has learned a thing or 2 from our game.
Tau: (by Commander_Farsight)
I really screwed up this game. I was unsatisfied with the result. Had my broadsides survived another turn, it would have been great. Not rushing the bomb up the board was a mistake too. I feel like although the score was very one sided, I think it was improvement. By having such a lack of troops, I was banking on scoring the Primary, and that's how I would win. Had I rushed the bomb up, it would have caused a big problem in jy2s deployment zone. Not getting the consolidation was really terrible. From turn 2 or 3 on I knew I was going to just barely hang in there and just try to pull one out. The next time I play Jim's Nids will be the time I finally beat him. Although I did lose again, this was one of my most valuable learning experiences. A few weeks ago against Spam Adams I got crippled after I was seized on, I conceded on turn 3. Stay with it this game and not giving up, I'm proud of myself. Had it gone to turn 7 there was a chance for me to get tabled too, so turn 6 is where I had to grab it. Its always a fun game against jy2, and I appreciate the time he has spent making me a better young 40k player.
It may be legal, but it still feels a bit like how apple funnels its cash through about 8 countries to avoid paying the correct amount of taxes. Legal, but super shadey.
Well, fluff usually takes a backseat when one opts to go the competitive gaming route. Although there are some competitive players who also try to go fluffy as well, but those are usually in the minority compared to the power-combo builds.
TheCadreofFi'rios wrote: This battle seemed to me to be pretty typical of a Farsight bomb vs Tyranids battle.
I believe it could have been closer if you had gone with sky rays for AA instead of missile broadsides. Reason being: (I just found this out actually) that you can fire all 6 of your seeker missiles into one flying monstrous creature if you stay stationary. 6 Str 8 ap 3 missiles= one dead flying bastard! Plus the sky ray comes with a velocity tracker and bs 4 so it hits on 3+'s. I believe two of them would be ideal against Tyranids as they can bring a lot of flyers and a whole lot of monstrous creatures!
I think 1 full unit of missile broadsides with missile drones is good enough to satisfy the heavy support slots. I think interceptor would be better on them as they have so many shots that they are bound to hit flyers even without velocity trackers (which in my mind are a waste of points on anything but riptides) and with interceptor they can get rid of deep striking ripper swarms or flyers that come back on the table. And personally I would like to add: Boo proxies! But in any case good game on both sides. I am interested to hear of what the Farsight squad had on for the pure tide engram chip. Also as I said 18 fire warriors? They would be better off dead before shooting at something.
I would have gone with two units of Kroot instead. Outflank them for late game objective grabbing or securing. The riptide looked like it did some damage though. I don't really like the HBC but how did it perform? I actually recently played a game against 7th Ed Tyranids and had a game that was closer than this but I still lost. It was very similar to this game actually. Playing almost the same exact list on both sides. Pretty much everything except the Farsight bomb got locked in close combat and destroyed like in this game. I'm thinking of making a list that deals more with hit and run tactics, as well as a more secure fire base to rely upon.
Anyways hope to see more of these games jy2!
Thanks for the input. The reason he took so many broadsides was because he wanted to run the Tau Firebase Cadre, which was used to good effect against him by another Tau player. The skyray is definitely good, but I have a defense against that as well (can we say...2+ Shrouded cover? ).
Troops were definitely the biggest weakness of the list. Personally, if I were running the Farsight-bomb, I wouldn't pair it up with the Firebase Cadre. Instead, I would run a highly mobile army with riptides, tetras, skyrays and maybe even Eldar allies.
Riptide didn't do too much. Turn 1, I deployed my flyrants out of his range. Turn 2, his BS was reduced to 0. Turn 3, he might have failed his Nova. Turn 4 he killed a biovore and Turn 5 he killed 1 unit of rippers on an objective.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainJay wrote: I would also probably have started the bomb on the board personally. Will shadowsun giving them a 3d6" jump move they can get around pretty fast. Just have to ensure a couple of the suits have MPs so they can start contributing from afar.
Not only that, but with the BAO, the unit can actually infiltrate with Shadowsun.
However, he probably didn't deploy them because I had 1st turn and he was concerned about my alpha-strike.
Mad.. wrote: Good game. That Mawloc had a blinder. Sending him into the naughty corner each time... was that the right call to make? Or would it be better to leave it closer to try and take it out so it isn't a threat any more.
I guess with the target saturation it is probably best to get it out of the way.
Thanks for sharing the batrep... look forward to the third match that is going to be won by Tau apparently
Well, there was a risk if he placed the mawloc near his firepower. The risk would have been what if the bomb didn't come in? Then my mawloc would have just assaulted whichever unit it was placed near.
Jamie is getting better and better the more he plays against me. I wouldn't be surprised if his Tau takes the next game. Of course, I may just bring something totally unexpected to our next matchup to throw a monkey wrench into his plans (like Daemons or something. )
sn0zcumb3r wrote: Nice report as always.
That's a very sorry amount of rippers you have on those bases...
Surely you could have added a few more
Lol.
I actually have some Forgeworld ones that I am going to work on as soon as I finish up my gargoyles.
Then again, these rippers are much easier to hide than the FW ones.
jy2 wrote: Troops were definitely the biggest weakness of the list. Personally, if I were running the Farsight-bomb, I wouldn't pair it up with the Firebase Cadre. Instead, I would run a highly mobile army with riptides, tetras, skyrays and maybe even Eldar allies.
I agree, the Firebase Cadre is arguable for some cases though. If I had Eldar allies, that is what I would have been taking 100% no questions asked. I find that 2 Riptides with markerlight support (one for each) is highly effective. Tetras... if I had the luxury of getting more FW models I would pick those up first thing, sadly I don't at this time. Skyrays, why? They are pretty bad after they shoot off their load of missiles, its like a floating markerlight support that doesn't do much other than that. If you post an example list, I would be thoroughly interested.
jy2 wrote: Riptide didn't do too much. Turn 1, I deployed my flyrants out of his range. Turn 2, his BS was reduced to 0. Turn 3, he might have failed his Nova. Turn 4 he killed a biovore and Turn 5 he killed 1 unit of rippers on an objective.
It was a bit of a point sink for its performance. Being that I almost tabled Skyblight last time I played it with Triptide Tau, I auto took the Bursttide. Since it was more AA, and I didn't have any skyryas, I should have played it differently and taken the Iontide. It would have done much better for clearing your backfield.
Now, I was told some interesting information form Dakka's own Imotekhthestormlord. In his opinion Objective Secured is of no matter at all. Although I have attempted to reason with him on how it is influential to have some mobile OS units, he will not budge on his position. So, I am curious, what does the community think, OS, yay or nay?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: Jamie is getting better and better the more he plays against me. I wouldn't be surprised if his Tau takes the next game. Of course, I may just bring something totally unexpected to our next matchup to throw a monkey wrench into his plans (like Daemons or something. )
That was honestly what I was expecting for this game. I'm planning on taking the next game too Oh, and I will have a LOT more things to throw on the table so I might just throw a monkey wrench into your monkey wrench
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 23:58:01
2014/07/17 00:48:37
Subject: Re:1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
jy2 wrote: Troops were definitely the biggest weakness of the list. Personally, if I were running the Farsight-bomb, I wouldn't pair it up with the Firebase Cadre. Instead, I would run a highly mobile army with riptides, tetras, skyrays and maybe even Eldar allies.
I agree, the Firebase Cadre is arguable for some cases though. If I had Eldar allies, that is what I would have been taking 100% no questions asked. I find that 2 Riptides with markerlight support (one for each) is highly effective. Tetras... if I had the luxury of getting more FW models I would pick those up first thing, sadly I don't at this time. Skyrays, why? They are pretty bad after they shoot off their load of missiles, its like a floating markerlight support that doesn't do much other than that. If you post an example list, I would be thoroughly interested.
They are good because they give you a lot of bang for the buck. 115-pts for an AV13 vehicle is actually quite cheap. They supply you with some AA firepower (though limited). They are a tough-to-kill scoring unit with AV13 and 3+ cover (with disruption pods). They are somewhat mobile, being able to move 18" if you really need them to. They have markerflights. They can be used for charge-blocking purposes to protect another unit. Lastly, you can use them to tankshock, especially to get a unit off of an objective. There is a lot of utility to the skyrays.
But 6 missiles only? Don't get too caught up with its limited firepower. After discharging its missiles, it is seen as a low-priority target by most opponents. Good. Now you've got the freedom to use it as a constant nuisance to your opponent. Who knows....you may even win the game with it on an objective in the end because your opponent chose to ignore it.
But really, it depends on your list. If you want to run an offense focused primarily on broadside shooting, then run broadsides. However, if you want to run a list that focuses its offense mostly elsewhere (i.e. Farsight-bomb, riptide-spam or a pulse-bomb/massed infantry Tau build), then skyrays actually fit in really well with those army builds.
Now, I was told some interesting information form Dakka's own Imotekhthestormlord. In his opinion Objective Secured is of no matter at all. Although I have attempted to reason with him on how it is influential to have some mobile OS units, he will not budge on his position. So, I am curious, what does the community think, OS, yay or nay?
There are basically 2 ways to play the game competitively. Either you rely on an offense so potent so as to be able to cripple your opponent with a heavy, heavy alpha (or beta) strike. In such a list (such as your Tau list here), you focus primarily on your offense and go barebones with the ObSec units. However, the problem comes up when you play a very experienced general with a list that is designed to survive heavy enemy firepower. His army can survive your firepower and he will know to go after your very weak troops (examples include mechdar, seer council, Invisible daemons, necron AV13-spam, etc.). In such a case, your list is highly unlikely to win.
Or you can build a list that is a little more balanced between offense and scoring. You can dish out, but you can also take a hit as well. And when you come up against an army that you can't table with your offense, at least your troops aren't a total liability. This is the trend that most competitive tournament players are going towards. You can front-load your army (with offense) but it is the balanced army that has the higher chance for success in competitive play.
jy2 wrote: Jamie is getting better and better the more he plays against me. I wouldn't be surprised if his Tau takes the next game. Of course, I may just bring something totally unexpected to our next matchup to throw a monkey wrench into his plans (like Daemons or something. )
That was honestly what I was expecting for this game. I'm planning on taking the next game too Oh, and I will have a LOT more things to throw on the table so I might just throw a monkey wrench into your monkey wrench
You'll get your chance for revenge soon enough.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/17 00:51:44
Will you guys be at Game Kastle on Friday? We're driving up early and were looking for something to do around 5pm n up in San Jose. Getting a game in with you guys would be great before the BAO.
nWo blackshirts GT Team Member
http://inthenameofsangunius.blogspot.com/?m=1
2014/07/22 17:10:08
Subject: 1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
Julnlecs wrote: Will you guys be at Game Kastle on Friday? We're driving up early and were looking for something to do around 5pm n up in San Jose. Getting a game in with you guys would be great before the BAO.
I will be. Friday isn't really a 40k night, but I would love to throw down with my list (now that I have everything. PM me and we can set a time
2014/07/22 17:14:24
Subject: Re:1850 BAO Practice - Sky Fleet Pandora Tyranids vs Farsight-bomb Tau (Completed)
Julnlecs wrote: Will you guys be at Game Kastle on Friday? We're driving up early and were looking for something to do around 5pm n up in San Jose. Getting a game in with you guys would be great before the BAO.
Most likely. It'll probably be pretty packed that day.
Julnlecs wrote: Will you guys be at Game Kastle on Friday? We're driving up early and were looking for something to do around 5pm n up in San Jose. Getting a game in with you guys would be great before the BAO.
Most likely. It'll probably be pretty packed that day.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
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